|
Post by JudgeJuryDredd on Jan 29, 2023 0:58:35 GMT
Not my argument. Well, I have, not as much as Disney but that wasn't the point I was arguing against. The argument is that those Content Creators are somehow authorities on the subject and that listening to them somehow makes you informed. They're not and it doesn't. Not supporting them isn't a bad thing.
I haven't.
I have never made the argument that not supporting someone like a Nerdrotic or YellowFlash2, or anyone else you deem as a grifter is a bad thing.
|
|
|
Post by formersamhmd on Jan 29, 2023 0:59:40 GMT
The ones who harassed me and followed me to other videos certainly were. And if anyone got their information from watching their videos, that makes them supporters of those people too.
Flawed and problematic, yet somehow if it's Jen then it's "Bad writing". Says it all.
Was she the lead? No. Did she need Daredevil to do anything and accomplish anything? Yes.
Then those people have issues, but to say anyone and everyone who doesn't like the program is therefore exactly like those people is wrong. Completely on the filmmaking. She was the lead, yes. It isn't when they got after other content creators who say "The show isn't bad".
Completely on the double standards.
If she was the lead, she wouldn't have needed Daredevil to do everything for her.
|
|
|
Post by JudgeJuryDredd on Jan 29, 2023 1:01:08 GMT
Such as? That may be your impression, but I wasn't trying to suggest that whatsoever. "Look at her talking down to men, this is awful" no matter what she was saying or doing.
Having Bruce be 100% right and Jen 100% wrong the entire show, what else does that suggest?
Such a comment is not misogyny. The problem is your perception. I feel you have a problem and may need some time off of the internet.
|
|
|
Post by formersamhmd on Jan 29, 2023 1:01:12 GMT
The argument is that those Content Creators are somehow authorities on the subject and that listening to them somehow makes you informed. They're not and it doesn't. Not supporting them isn't a bad thing.
I haven't.
I have never made the argument that not supporting someone like a Nerdrotic or YellowFlash2, or anyone else you deem as a grifter is a bad thing. You argue that somehow they know more like they are some kind of authority, like with Midnight's Edge. They don't, they're just Grifters and thus inherently untrustworthy.
|
|
|
Post by formersamhmd on Jan 29, 2023 1:02:38 GMT
"Look at her talking down to men, this is awful" no matter what she was saying or doing.
Having Bruce be 100% right and Jen 100% wrong the entire show, what else does that suggest?
Such a comment is not misogyny. The problem is your perception. I feel you have a problem and may need some time off of the internet. It is, it says that Jen should never talk about to any man about anything. In any situation. That she must always be wrong.
The problem is that certain folks can't accept Bruce being wrong and Jen being right, in any situation
|
|
|
Post by JudgeJuryDredd on Jan 29, 2023 1:02:43 GMT
Then those people have issues, but to say anyone and everyone who doesn't like the program is therefore exactly like those people is wrong. Completely on the filmmaking. She was the lead, yes. It isn't when they got after other content creators who say "The show isn't bad".
Completely on the double standards.
If she was the lead, she wouldn't have needed Daredevil to do everything for her.
Again, not everyone is the same and not everyone who doesn't approve of the series is like those people. Completely on the filmmaking. He didn't do everything for her. For someone who is willing to defend such a serious so strongly your perception of it is really lacking.
|
|
|
Post by formersamhmd on Jan 29, 2023 1:04:23 GMT
It isn't when they got after other content creators who say "The show isn't bad".
Completely on the double standards.
If she was the lead, she wouldn't have needed Daredevil to do everything for her.
Again, not everyone is the same and not everyone who doesn't approve of the series is like those people. Completely on the filmmaking. He didn't do everything for her. For someone who is willing to defend such a serious so strongly your perception of it is really lacking. They aren't speaking up for themselves in non-deranged ways.
Jen could never get away with the stuff Jerry did in his show, easy.
He did, everything in that episode and everything important revolved around him dominating her completely.
Have a female character show up in a male-led show and do what Matt did, she'd be written off as a Mary Sue.
|
|
|
Post by JudgeJuryDredd on Jan 29, 2023 1:05:21 GMT
But you are talking about before the series was even made. It isn't. Yes, just like how the Guardians movies in 2014 was being slagged off 24/7 once it was announced.
It is. Jen can't get away with stuff Jerry and co do. Even if the writers outright said "Yes she's supposed to be a jerk like Jerry Seinfeld" it still wouldn't be enough.
And the movie turned out to be a critical and commercial success, most people liked it. Not the same truth in the case of She-Hulk, as audience and critics are widely divided on it. It isn't. And are you agreeing now with others that Jennifer wasn't likeable in the series?
|
|
|
Post by formersamhmd on Jan 29, 2023 1:07:18 GMT
Yes, just like how the Guardians movies in 2014 was being slagged off 24/7 once it was announced.
It is. Jen can't get away with stuff Jerry and co do. Even if the writers outright said "Yes she's supposed to be a jerk like Jerry Seinfeld" it still wouldn't be enough.
And the movie turned out to be a critical and commercial success, most people liked it. Not the same truth in the case of She-Hulk, as audience and critics are widely divided on it. It isn't. And are you agreeing now with others that Jennifer wasn't likeable in the series? It shows that this keeps happening and "No one asking for this" isn't an excuse.
I'm simply playing by your rules and saying that "Even if they were trying to make her unlikable and outright said so, the same complaints would pop up even though male characters don't get this hate."
IE, no win scenario. It shows how "fans" were out to hate Jen from before Day One and nothing could be done to please the haters. Nothing.
|
|
|
Post by JudgeJuryDredd on Jan 29, 2023 1:07:48 GMT
This doesn't follow my question, which was in regard to your claim of the very idea of a She-Hulk series was vastly disowned by the majority of consumers, all of which you label as grifters or their supporters. Disowned by the Grifters and their supporters, but history showed they're idiots so their reaction means nothing. Still doesn't follow my question, the people you cite as grifters and their supporters weren't saying Guardians would flop in 2014. And if their opinions are so worthless to you, why have they basically affected your perception so much that you think anyone who is negative on a product must therefore be one or the other?
|
|
|
Post by JudgeJuryDredd on Jan 29, 2023 1:12:40 GMT
Again, not everyone is the same and not everyone who doesn't approve of the series is like those people. Completely on the filmmaking. He didn't do everything for her. For someone who is willing to defend such a serious so strongly your perception of it is really lacking. They aren't speaking up for themselves in non-deranged ways.
Jen could never get away with the stuff Jerry did in his show, easy.
He did, everything in that episode and everything important revolved around him dominating her completely.
Have a female character show up in a male-led show and do what Matt did, she'd be written off as a Mary Sue.
Maybe in your online ventures, but not mine. Probably because they are not the same kind of character. That didn't happen. Why are you so determined to make me look problematic? I genuinely liked an episode; can't that be one thing we can at least agree on? Fallacy.
|
|
|
Post by JudgeJuryDredd on Jan 29, 2023 1:14:21 GMT
I have never made the argument that not supporting someone like a Nerdrotic or YellowFlash2, or anyone else you deem as a grifter is a bad thing. You argue that somehow they know more like they are some kind of authority, like with Midnight's Edge. They don't, they're just Grifters and thus inherently untrustworthy. I never claimed they are an authority. Point to where I do.
|
|
|
Post by JudgeJuryDredd on Jan 29, 2023 1:18:24 GMT
And the movie turned out to be a critical and commercial success, most people liked it. Not the same truth in the case of She-Hulk, as audience and critics are widely divided on it. It isn't. And are you agreeing now with others that Jennifer wasn't likeable in the series? It shows that this keeps happening and "No one asking for this" isn't an excuse.
I'm simply playing by your rules and saying that "Even if they were trying to make her unlikable and outright said so, the same complaints would pop up even though male characters don't get this hate."
IE, no win scenario. It shows how "fans" were out to hate Jen from before Day One and nothing could be done to please the haters. Nothing.
You were arguing that the majority of people want to see this series, but by that logic shouldn't Marvel Studios had axed a product they understood wasn't in high demand and didn't seem like it was going to be well-liked? With Guardians nobody knew what to expect, most conversation around it was that it was a big gamble. And it didn't work out very well for you. Your double standards argument just isn't as effective as you think it is. Fallacy gonna be a fallacy.
|
|
|
Post by formersamhmd on Jan 29, 2023 13:05:31 GMT
Disowned by the Grifters and their supporters, but history showed they're idiots so their reaction means nothing. Still doesn't follow my question, the people you cite as grifters and their supporters weren't saying Guardians would flop in 2014. And if their opinions are so worthless to you, why have they basically affected your perception so much that you think anyone who is negative on a product must therefore be one or the other? Yes they were, absolutely they were. All over IMDB and news sites they kept saying that GOTG would flop massively and destroy the MCU as we knew it and get Feige fired.
Because no one learned anything from how they kept getting it wrong and their followers keep spreading their poison everywhere, contaminating everything and ruining fandom for decent people.
|
|
|
Post by formersamhmd on Jan 29, 2023 13:07:12 GMT
They aren't speaking up for themselves in non-deranged ways.
Jen could never get away with the stuff Jerry did in his show, easy.
He did, everything in that episode and everything important revolved around him dominating her completely.
Have a female character show up in a male-led show and do what Matt did, she'd be written off as a Mary Sue.
Maybe in your online ventures, but not mine. Probably because they are not the same kind of character. That didn't happen. Why are you so determined to make me look problematic? I genuinely liked an episode; can't that be one thing we can at least agree on? Fallacy. In mine, and several others.
So Jerry can get away with stuff Jen can't. Double Standards.
It did happen, and the reasons for liking it are because it sidelined Jen and made her a useless character in her own show. Which is what certain folks were hoping the show would really be: Jen being sidelined while the show was really about someone else, like Bruce.
History says otherwise.
|
|
|
Post by formersamhmd on Jan 29, 2023 13:07:50 GMT
You argue that somehow they know more like they are some kind of authority, like with Midnight's Edge. They don't, they're just Grifters and thus inherently untrustworthy. I never claimed they are an authority. Point to where I do. You won't admit they indulge in any form of Griftery, that's the same thing as claiming they're a legit authority.
|
|
|
Post by formersamhmd on Jan 29, 2023 13:10:13 GMT
It shows that this keeps happening and "No one asking for this" isn't an excuse.
I'm simply playing by your rules and saying that "Even if they were trying to make her unlikable and outright said so, the same complaints would pop up even though male characters don't get this hate."
IE, no win scenario. It shows how "fans" were out to hate Jen from before Day One and nothing could be done to please the haters. Nothing.
You were arguing that the majority of people want to see this series, but by that logic shouldn't Marvel Studios had axed a product they understood wasn't in high demand and didn't seem like it was going to be well-liked? With Guardians nobody knew what to expect, most conversation around it was that it was a big gamble. And it didn't work out very well for you. Your double standards argument just isn't as effective as you think it is. Fallacy gonna be a fallacy. No, the conversation with Guardians was that Marvel Studios were idiots to think the film could ever work and no one would see it and the characters were too ridiculous and it would flop royally. After that, the MCU was justified in making anything.
It is, that's why no one can define exactly why it's fine for Jerry but not Jen.
No win scenario, they were intent on hating Jen and nothing was gonna change that without compromising her character
|
|
|
Post by JudgeJuryDredd on Jan 30, 2023 4:42:18 GMT
Still doesn't follow my question, the people you cite as grifters and their supporters weren't saying Guardians would flop in 2014. And if their opinions are so worthless to you, why have they basically affected your perception so much that you think anyone who is negative on a product must therefore be one or the other? Yes they were, absolutely they were. All over IMDB and news sites they kept saying that GOTG would flop massively and destroy the MCU as we knew it and get Feige fired.
Because no one learned anything from how they kept getting it wrong and their followers keep spreading their poison everywhere, contaminating everything and ruining fandom for decent people.
Okay then, kindly point to a quote where, say, Mr. Gary Buechler (Nerdrotic) (Or any of the people we have discussed thus far that you call as being grifters) says in 2014 that Guardians of the Galaxy was going to flop at the box office and ruin the Marvel Cinematic Universe. You don't sound like you have a good history with certain content creators online and their supporters, but just because someone doesn't like a piece of media that you do that doesn't mean they are either what you describe as a grifter or a follower of them. In fact, they may not even know who any of the people you cite as being grifters are.
|
|
|
Post by JudgeJuryDredd on Jan 30, 2023 4:53:52 GMT
Maybe in your online ventures, but not mine. Probably because they are not the same kind of character. That didn't happen. Why are you so determined to make me look problematic? I genuinely liked an episode; can't that be one thing we can at least agree on? Fallacy. In mine, and several others.
So Jerry can get away with stuff Jen can't. Double Standards.
It did happen, and the reasons for liking it are because it sidelined Jen and made her a useless character in her own show. Which is what certain folks were hoping the show would really be: Jen being sidelined while the show was really about someone else, like Bruce.
History says otherwise.
We are just talking about you and me here and our experiences. Not everyone else. They are not the same kind of character to begin with, so a comparison just cannot be made. Was Jerry a superhero? No. Was Jerry a lawyer? No. Does Jerry live in Los Angeles? No. And we both know he isn't a woman. Is Jennifer Walters based in New York? No. Is Jennifer Walters' occupation a comedian? No. If Jennifer Walters a former Umbrella salesperson? No. And we both know she isn't a man. My liking of an episode represents the mentality of the series' critics? Like your justification of society gone backwards over my lack of familiarity with The Mary Tyler Moore Show this argument is just going nowhere. History says that is a fallacy.
|
|
|
Post by JudgeJuryDredd on Jan 30, 2023 4:56:08 GMT
I never claimed they are an authority. Point to where I do. You won't admit they indulge in any form of Griftery, that's the same thing as claiming they're a legit authority. No, it isn't. But thank you again for proving me right that you are acting like a jerk and a bully in this conversation.
|
|