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Post by JudgeJuryDredd on Feb 4, 2023 18:18:24 GMT
This is some of the craziest shit I've ever read. How did 'they' ruin anything? If it's a high quality product, its success will continue whether people are bitching about it online or not. What are you going to do to stop 'them' from ruining something? Criticism (of something as trivial as pop culture) isn't going to stop because you want it to. I can't believe this conversation has gone on for 14 pages, we should start taking bets on how many pages this and the other thread will end up with. The way they harassed the SW Sequel actors and kept ranting about nonexistent things like "Gender Politics" or "Identity Politics" or "SJW Propaganda". They try to ruin it for decent people who aren't hypercritical over Boogeyman stuff like that.
Same with Star Trek, beginning with the Discovery series once they saw the lead was a black woman. If these scum had been around back in the early 90s they'd have gone after Avery Brooks for being Sisko and Kate Mulgrew as Janeway.
Then the reaction when RoP was announced, without knowing a THING they condemned the series just for existing. It's disgusting.
This isn't criticism, it's Alex Jones level poison. It's a disease, a plague.
formersamhmd ... The criticisms against Discovery weren't that it was being led by a black actress, they were that tthe entire design of the program barely resembled the original series (of which it is supposed to lead into) aesthetically and stylistically, it was TV-MA and presented extreme gore, nudity, and language when the property is generally intended for family appeal, and major changes to canon (Spock having a half-sister suddenly). The Rings of Power has received its criticism because it was playing too loose with Tolkein's mythology and didn't appear to respect it enough or at all. The final product didn't change any minds, either and only proved worry to be justified given what they did to such characters like Galadriel.
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Post by paulslaugh on Feb 4, 2023 18:25:50 GMT
We want just more Straight Men in the movies. Is that too much to ask? We are fragile now and need it more than ever. ![](https://townsquare.media/site/241/files/2012/07/Crying-Man.jpg?w=1200&h=0&zc=1&s=0&a=t&q=89) Yeah. ![](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/U80_ydOwdEw/maxresdefault.jpg)
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Post by formersamhmd on Feb 4, 2023 19:17:37 GMT
It's a logical reasoning, they hate anything "outside the box" meaning they were part of the buffoon hater bandwagon that popped up to oppose Guardians back then too.
He says that now, but he didn't mean it. It's against everything Grifters stand for. And the archived comments I tried to find on the old IMDB don't go back to around 2013 when the Haters were in full force ranting about how the movie would destroy the MCU.
I told you, I'm sick of the Fandom Menace and how they corrupt and destroy everything. They don't want to co-exist with anyone, therefore they shouldn't be surprised they get it right back at them.
They ruined Star Trek, they ruined Star Wars, they ruined Tolkien, I won't let them have an inch of the MCU and DCEU if I can help it
formersamhmd ... It isn't logical reasoning, it is assumption. I have agreed that there were people who questioned the first Guardians of the Galaxy when it was announced but your claim that the same people are so-and-so from YouTube is ridiculous. Your argument about Andre / Norse_Sage from Midnight's Edge being a liar is also completely ridiculous, and completely untrue. I have been friends with this person since 2007, I understand them very well and know with absolute certainty that what you claim is complete bunk. Not only that, but in 2013-2014 the idea of having a YouTube channel didn't even cross his and his collaborator's minds. Your argument is completely childish. Your attempt at justification does not make you the good guy in this scenario, as you are displaying the kind of behavior you accuse these people of routinely practicing, and for that you come across as a jerk and a bully with the debate skills of a junior high school student. People complaining about new Star Trek and Star Wars media goes back decades before the internet became as complex as it is today, same concerning the media adapted from the works of Tolkien. And it's a bit too late with regard of the Marvel Cinematic Universe and DC Extended Universe, as criticism has been recurring frequently since 2019 (But if memory serves you were not in favor of the DC Extended Universe, either). It sounds like if you don't want to see negative views expressed at particular media, then the creators of the product have to actually produce fantastic content that please everybody, but make a polarizing product, like The Last Jedi in reference to Star Wars, you will see mix responses. It's wholly logical, the way they reacted to everything Post-Endgame (except Spider-Man, by virtue of it being gutless fanservice) is exactly the way the "fans" reacted when GOTG was announced. Therefore, it's logical to assume they felt the same about doom-mongering GOTG even if they didn't have their channels to do so with.
Midnight's Edge joined the Grifter game, therefore they forfeited their right to being taken seriously. Therefore, they threw their lot in with the other Grifters.
The Grifters started this, they brought it on themselves and their followers. I'm just giving them a taste of their own medicine, since being conciliatory is pointless.
It does go back, SW in particular has been vicious since 1983. The "fans" tried to get Jar-Jar's actor to commit suicide.
Oh, so criticism of the MCU started when the first major female lead debuted. What a wonder that brought in the Grifters. Nothing about the actual content, just who the character was.
The Grifters were against the Sequels being made at all, they were complaining as soon as Disney bought SW and were never going to go in with an open mind. It wasn't TLJ that set them off, they'd already been set off long before.
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Post by formersamhmd on Feb 4, 2023 19:18:17 GMT
I think he’s talking about what has been described as bad-faith criticisms coming from YouTubers like Nerdrotic. Seriously, their relentless attacks towards ‘Shang-Chi’ before its release was flat-out insufferable. If memory serves the bulk of the negativity was in criticism against the narative that the film was something "new", "bold", and "one of a kind" as a product and that it was "the first" for Asian representation in film - which they pointed out is not true, as Asian led films have existed in the past and been successful at the box office. It wasn't, it was just anger that the film was being made at all. None of those things you bring up were ever stated by anyone involved in the production.
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Post by formersamhmd on Feb 4, 2023 19:20:23 GMT
The way they harassed the SW Sequel actors and kept ranting about nonexistent things like "Gender Politics" or "Identity Politics" or "SJW Propaganda". They try to ruin it for decent people who aren't hypercritical over Boogeyman stuff like that.
Same with Star Trek, beginning with the Discovery series once they saw the lead was a black woman. If these scum had been around back in the early 90s they'd have gone after Avery Brooks for being Sisko and Kate Mulgrew as Janeway.
Then the reaction when RoP was announced, without knowing a THING they condemned the series just for existing. It's disgusting.
This isn't criticism, it's Alex Jones level poison. It's a disease, a plague.
formersamhmd ... The criticisms against Discovery weren't that it was being led by a black actress, they were that tthe entire design of the program barely resembled the original series (of which it is supposed to lead into) aesthetically and stylistically, it was TV-MA and presented extreme gore, nudity, and language when the property is generally intended for family appeal, and major changes to canon (Spock having a half-sister suddenly). The Rings of Power has received its criticism because it was playing too loose with Tolkein's mythology and didn't appear to respect it enough or at all. The final product didn't change any minds, either and only proved worry to be justified given what they did to such characters like Galadriel. Spock having an adopted Human sister was no more out of nowhere then him having an older Half-brother out of nowhere from the movies.
The criticisms were very much it being a black woman lead, actual Trek fans knew all along that it wouldn't be possible to truly replicate the old TOS look because things IRL had changed too much.
TV-MA? That's just how Streaming programming is now.
Rings of Power was being hated on the instant it was announced, before any "fan" knew anything about it.
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Post by blockbusted on Feb 4, 2023 21:10:03 GMT
formersamhmd ... The criticisms against Discovery weren't that it was being led by a black actress, they were that tthe entire design of the program barely resembled the original series (of which it is supposed to lead into) aesthetically and stylistically, it was TV-MA and presented extreme gore, nudity, and language when the property is generally intended for family appeal, and major changes to canon (Spock having a half-sister suddenly). The Rings of Power has received its criticism because it was playing too loose with Tolkein's mythology and didn't appear to respect it enough or at all. The final product didn't change any minds, either and only proved worry to be justified given what they did to such characters like Galadriel. Spock having an adopted Human sister was no more out of nowhere then him having an older Half-brother out of nowhere from the movies.
The criticisms were very much it being a black woman lead, actual Trek fans knew all along that it wouldn't be possible to truly replicate the old TOS look because things IRL had changed too much.
TV-MA? That's just how Streaming programming is now.
Rings of Power was being hated on the instant it was announced, before any "fan" knew anything about it.
Wait. A TV-MA ‘Star Trek’ series? What was that?
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Post by formersamhmd on Feb 5, 2023 0:26:41 GMT
Spock having an adopted Human sister was no more out of nowhere then him having an older Half-brother out of nowhere from the movies.
The criticisms were very much it being a black woman lead, actual Trek fans knew all along that it wouldn't be possible to truly replicate the old TOS look because things IRL had changed too much.
TV-MA? That's just how Streaming programming is now.
Rings of Power was being hated on the instant it was announced, before any "fan" knew anything about it.
Wait. A TV-MA ‘Star Trek’ series? What was that? Discovery and Picard, both air on normal TV here in Canada but they're meant for streaming in the US. They wanted to attract people who watch modern Prestige TV and that means including things like sex and cursing and other higher rated things.
IE, in the first episode of Picard he asks a Starfleet Admiral for help and gets told to "F*** Off" (not the exact quote).
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Post by JudgeJuryDredd on Feb 5, 2023 1:22:33 GMT
formersamhmd... That isn't logical, that is assumption. If you were to present your argument as is to a professor of Symbolic Logic for soundness and validity, they would give you an "F" and use it for classmates to analyze and take apart in class. I have been good friends with Andre of Midnight's Edge for 16 years, I know him and his character very well and the mission statement of his co-created YouTube channel, I completely trust him and respect his character. I would appreciate if you would not speak ill of my very good friend the further this conversation goes, because it is evident that you are not familiar enough with him and his co-created YouTube channel, and no presentation of character thus far from you is even remotely encouraging me to side with you going forward. You are acting like a bully towards people who do not deserve such attitude in the first place. Your mentality that if someone doesn't dislike certain people on the internet and doesn't appreciate the same media as you do is extremely childish, and your arguments the very same. It doesn't matter if a popular person on the internet and a fan of theirs displays bad form in creating or furthering the conversation, if you are acting the way that of which you are here you are hurting your credibility in the debate and losing respect people would have for you. No, people were starting to become critical of Marvel Studios in 2019 because it looked like they were about transition from adapting iconic and favorited stories in favor of more recent and polarizing ones like the latest iteration of Captain Marvel who was written as fairly different from the one fans really liked from the years past. I don't recall that; I recall most people being optimistic or cautiously optimistic about the Disney acquisition of Star Wars and were planning to see The Force Awakens on opening weekend. Fans and consumers generally liked the film, with the majority of the critics talking about how unoriginal the plot was and that it felt like a copy of A New Hope. Most fans and consumers didn't take as much liking towards The Last Jedi because of its depiction of the iconic characters, the numerous unsatisfactory storytelling decisions (I.E. Finn and Rose Tico go to free animals being used by capitalists by a casino on a planet but don't free the slave workers), and disregard of what had even been established in the previous installment. I only recall there being puzzlement about Shang-Chi being announced since the character is not traditionally presented on an epic scale in their stories but were a bit cautiously optimistic because it would suggest they were go to focusing on more smaller scale characters and stories after such an epic arc close with Endgame. I don't recall if any of the filmmakers made such claims on their own, but some in the press had, such as Entertainment Tonight, and the filmmakers played along with it, like star Simu Liu. Star Trek had only been TOS at the time the movies were produced in the late 70's and all of the 1980's, they were still building the universe and Gene Roddenberry oversaw it. From the end of TOS we had other series and supplementary material that was produced till the end of Enterprise when new media was briefly designated to video games, comic books, and novels, and even with the creation of the Kelvin timeline in 2009's Star Trek stories set in the Prime universe still continued. Many of these stories, held dear by Trekkers and Trekkies alike, dived a lot into Vulcan and Spock's history, so the addition of a half-sister in what was promised to be a series set in the Prime timeline justifiably confused a lot of people and ask questions. As for complaints about the actress in the lead, I don't recall there being any from my numerous online ventures, any comments I had seen were regarding the changes to canon. As for it not being possible to replicate the aesthetic and style of the original series, I would have to disagree, the Star Trek Continues web series from nine years ago captured the look and feel of TOS pretty well (And Vic Mignogna made a decent James T. Kirk, given his expertise is generally in voice acting), and the Black Mirror episode USS Callister also showed such an aesthetic can still work in contemporary science fiction. And Star Trek is traditionally family entertainment, like Star Wars, a TV-MA rating is not necessary to tell an effective story in the franchise. I only recall people being curious about what the filmmakers were going to do with The Rings of Power when it was announced, because Amazon could not adapt the novels like The Hobbit, The Lord of the Rings, and The Silmarillion so new stories had to be told and some were nervous that Hollywood was going to rework Tolkien to be less 'problematic' for modern audiences.
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Post by JudgeJuryDredd on Feb 5, 2023 1:25:08 GMT
Spock having an adopted Human sister was no more out of nowhere then him having an older Half-brother out of nowhere from the movies.
The criticisms were very much it being a black woman lead, actual Trek fans knew all along that it wouldn't be possible to truly replicate the old TOS look because things IRL had changed too much.
TV-MA? That's just how Streaming programming is now.
Rings of Power was being hated on the instant it was announced, before any "fan" knew anything about it.
Wait. A TV-MA ‘Star Trek’ series? What was that? Star Trek: Discovery was TV-14 mostly and TV-MA occasionally, Picard is TV-MA, and Star Trek: Lower Decks would qualify if not for censorship. Strange New Worlds and The Prodigy are more family geared entries in contemporary Trek.
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Post by formersamhmd on Feb 5, 2023 2:52:42 GMT
formersamhmd ... That isn't logical, that is assumption. If you were to present your argument as is to a professor of Symbolic Logic for soundness and validity, they would give you an "F" and use it for classmates to analyze and take apart in class. I have been good friends with Andre of Midnight's Edge for 16 years, I know him and his character very well and the mission statement of his co-created YouTube channel, I completely trust him and respect his character. I would appreciate if you would not speak ill of my very good friend the further this conversation goes, because it is evident that you are not familiar enough with him and his co-created YouTube channel, and no presentation of character thus far from you is even remotely encouraging me to side with you going forward. You are acting like a bully towards people who do not deserve such attitude in the first place. Your mentality that if someone doesn't dislike certain people on the internet and doesn't appreciate the same media as you do is extremely childish, and your arguments the very same. It doesn't matter if a popular person on the internet and a fan of theirs displays bad form in creating or furthering the conversation, if you are acting the way that of which you are here you are hurting your credibility in the debate and losing respect people would have for you. No, people were starting to become critical of Marvel Studios in 2019 because it looked like they were about transition from adapting iconic and favorited stories in favor of more recent and polarizing ones like the latest iteration of Captain Marvel who was written as fairly different from the one fans really liked from the years past. I don't recall that; I recall most people being optimistic or cautiously optimistic about the Disney acquisition of Star Wars and were planning to see The Force Awakens on opening weekend. Fans and consumers generally liked the film, with the majority of the critics talking about how unoriginal the plot was and that it felt like a copy of A New Hope. Most fans and consumers didn't take as much liking towards The Last Jedi because of its depiction of the iconic characters, the numerous unsatisfactory storytelling decisions (I.E. Finn and Rose Tico go to free animals being used by capitalists by a casino on a planet but don't free the slave workers), and disregard of what had even been established in the previous installment. I only recall there being puzzlement about Shang-Chi being announced since the character is not traditionally presented on an epic scale in their stories but were a bit cautiously optimistic because it would suggest they were go to focusing on more smaller scale characters and stories after such an epic arc close with Endgame. I don't recall if any of the filmmakers made such claims on their own, but some in the press had, such as Entertainment Tonight, and the filmmakers played along with it, like star Simu Liu. Star Trek had only been TOS at the time the movies were produced in the late 70's and all of the 1980's, they were still building the universe and Gene Roddenberry oversaw it. From the end of TOS we had other series and supplementary material that was produced till the end of Enterprise when new media was briefly designated to video games, comic books, and novels, and even with the creation of the Kelvin timeline in 2009's Star Trek stories set in the Prime universe still continued. Many of these stories, held dear by Trekkers and Trekkies alike, dived a lot into Vulcan and Spock's history, so the addition of a half-sister in what was promised to be a series set in the Prime timeline justifiably confused a lot of people and ask questions. As for complaints about the actress in the lead, I don't recall there being any from my numerous online ventures, any comments I had seen were regarding the changes to canon. As for it not being possible to replicate the aesthetic and style of the original series, I would have to disagree, the Star Trek Continues web series from nine years ago captured the look and feel of TOS pretty well (And Vic Mignogna made a decent James T. Kirk, given his expertise is generally in voice acting), and the Black Mirror episode USS Callister also showed such an aesthetic can still work in contemporary science fiction. And Star Trek is traditionally family entertainment, like Star Wars, a TV-MA rating is not necessary to tell an effective story in the franchise. I only recall people being curious about what the filmmakers were going to do with The Rings of Power when it was announced, because Amazon could not adapt the novels like The Hobbit, The Lord of the Rings, and The Silmarillion so new stories had to be told and some were nervous that Hollywood was going to rework Tolkien to be less 'problematic' for modern audiences. A wholly logical one. If they hate anything new and outside the box, they'd have been on the same buffoon hater bandwagon that GOTG had to deal with.
If he's part of a Grifter channel, I have no use for him.
Grifters deserve no quarter.
The only thing "Polarizing" about the more recent Captain Marvel comics is that she cut her hair short and stopped wearing a skimpy outfit. That's all it took for "fans" to turn on her. Nothing to do with stories.
And they'd already been adapting more recent stuff from the "Modern" Era far earlier than 2019, like the Winter Soldier plotline and Civil War. Nothing "Classic" about either of those.
I DO recall that. They were complaining when it happened, they complained when the EU was decanonized (even though Lucas himself always said he'd do the same thing), they complained when Sequels were commissioned and they were MEGA complaining the second they saw that Rey and Finn were a woman and a black male.
ANH is an archetypal story, of course there'd be similarities.
They only liked TFA because the hope was that, even though Han got killed, that the next story would kill off Rey, Finn and Poe and be all about Luke as the hero fighting the bad guys. When TLJ made it clear Luke WASN'T going to be the hero of the sequels, the "fans" turned on the Sequels.
They'd have hated Empire Strikes Back back in 1980 if they'd been around then. Because it "subverted expectations" and "disregarded things"
There was no puzzlement about Shang Chi, there was anger. Anger because of the Anti-Asian Sentiment going around at the time and how any attempt to have a positive Asian Lead was obvious "Chinese Pandering" and not just because...the MCU felt like doing such a story.
No one involved in production said such things, it was others who said that and detractors acted like the Production Team said them because they wanted any ammunition they could find against the movie.
And yet those same people didn't complain about how, after 20 years, we heard about Spock's older half-brother he'd never mentioned before in "Final Frontier". Hypocrisy.
USS Callister didn't replicate the TOS Aesthetic, it was still too modern looking to be 100%.
TV-MA is necessary when you're making a Prestige TV show in this day and age. Blame Game of Thrones and Breaking Bad for creating that mindset.
They were not curious, they were vicious. They acted like a storybook made by an Englishman to amuse his children was a Holy Text.
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Post by JudgeJuryDredd on Feb 5, 2023 3:25:01 GMT
formersamhmd ... At this point in the conversation, and with the other, I think you have proven to everyone who has engaged with you and has observed it that since your initial ban a few years ago you have become a very obsessive, ego-driven individual with a cynical outlook and a very flawed view on what qualifies as being logical. Every talking point is a rinse-and-repeat of the last, and no real progression has come from it, other than your attempts to save face and rewrite narratives. I used to really respect you, but now that is all gone. Please know that if you display such form in conversation on Knowhere, you may no longer be welcome.
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Post by Skaathar on Feb 5, 2023 8:49:01 GMT
I think in cases like these, the truth normally lies somewhere in the middle of the 2 extreme ends.
I myself find guys like Nerdrotic or Yellowflash way too negative and conspiracy-theory-ish for my tastes, but they're not really any worse than those people who insist there's absolutely nothing wrong with shows like She-Hulk or Supergirl. Both sides will immediately attack anyone who doesn't agree with them, and that's really the best metric to use if you want to see just who really is being unreasonable: Whether or not a person is able to respect differing opinions from theirs without immediately going into attack mode.
The fact is that the MCU has indeed been leaning heavily into political messaging in Phase 4, far more than they did in their previous phases and sometimes seemingly prioritizing this over a show's quality. Anyone who denies this is blind, deaf and dumb.
But that doesn't mean that they're no longer capable of producing good content. In fact for all my complaints about phase 4, most of their products are still vastly superior to majority of shows out there. So anyone who immediately disses and hates on the MCU shows just because they're more politicized are equally blind, deaf and dumb.
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Post by formersamhmd on Feb 5, 2023 17:07:18 GMT
How is Phase 4 more political than the comics themselves ever were? Or the prior 3 Phases? I keep hearing this but I don't really see the evidence, aside from there now being more nonwhite and female characters.
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Post by Skaathar on Feb 5, 2023 21:48:10 GMT
How is Phase 4 more political than the comics themselves ever were? Or the prior 3 Phases? I keep hearing this but I don't really see the evidence, aside from there now being more nonwhite and female characters. Like I said, blind, deaf and dumb. Multiple examples have already been provided in this thread and others in this forum. Heck, the She-hulk thread alone has numerous examples. I'd offer to provide more evidence but we've been down this road before and I know no matter what I say, you'd just deny them anyway.
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Post by formersamhmd on Feb 6, 2023 1:33:09 GMT
How is Phase 4 more political than the comics themselves ever were? Or the prior 3 Phases? I keep hearing this but I don't really see the evidence, aside from there now being more nonwhite and female characters. Like I said, blind, deaf and dumb. Multiple examples have already been provided in this thread and others in this forum. Heck, the She-hulk thread alone has numerous examples. I'd offer to provide more evidence but we've been down this road before and I know no matter what I say, you'd just deny them anyway. The only examples given have been "More nonwhite leads" and "more women". That's it.
And it's nothing that wasn't already in classic comics anyways. Or Phases 1 2 and 3.
Really, the people complaining about Phase 4 being "too political" would call Atticus Finch a villain.
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Post by Skaathar on Feb 6, 2023 2:24:51 GMT
Like I said, blind, deaf and dumb. Multiple examples have already been provided in this thread and others in this forum. Heck, the She-hulk thread alone has numerous examples. I'd offer to provide more evidence but we've been down this road before and I know no matter what I say, you'd just deny them anyway. The only examples given have been "More nonwhite leads" and "more women". That's it.
And it's nothing that wasn't already in classic comics anyways. Or Phases 1 2 and 3.
Really, the people complaining about Phase 4 being "too political" would call Atticus Finch a villain.
Ok, I'll bite. I'll try one more time. Name me a single time in any of the shows in Phase 1-3 where the MCU execs changed the entire ending of a show just because they didn't want a staight white male to come in and save the day?
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Post by formersamhmd on Feb 6, 2023 3:50:36 GMT
The only examples given have been "More nonwhite leads" and "more women". That's it.
And it's nothing that wasn't already in classic comics anyways. Or Phases 1 2 and 3.
Really, the people complaining about Phase 4 being "too political" would call Atticus Finch a villain.
Ok, I'll bite. I'll try one more time. Name me a single time in any of the shows in Phase 1-3 where the MCU execs changed the entire ending of a show just because they didn't want a staight white male to come in and save the day? Are you talking about WandaVision again? You're really grasping with that.
They didn't want a random deus ex machina to come in and do the main characters work for them, it had nothing to do with politics or "straight white male". It's just good writing.
But example, Jessica Jones. Nuke turned out to be right about everything he said and did, yet the show made him out to be a villain and in the end Jessica ends up doing exactly what he said they should do all along and the show makes her out to be a hero for it.
They simply realized that the original ending for WandaVision was inherently bad, and corrected that.
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Post by Skaathar on Feb 6, 2023 5:01:21 GMT
Ok, I'll bite. I'll try one more time. Name me a single time in any of the shows in Phase 1-3 where the MCU execs changed the entire ending of a show just because they didn't want a staight white male to come in and save the day? Are you talking about WandaVision again? You're really grasping with that.
They didn't want a random deus ex machina to come in and do the main characters work for them, it had nothing to do with politics or "straight white male". It's just good writing.
But example, Jessica Jones. Nuke turned out to be right about everything he said and did, yet the show made him out to be a villain and in the end Jessica ends up doing exactly what he said they should do all along and the show makes her out to be a hero for it.
They simply realized that the original ending for WandaVision was inherently bad, and corrected that.
See? Told you you'd just deny it. You claim I'm grasping yet Feige himself stated specifically that they didn't want a white man to save the day which is why they changed the ending last minute. You can easily find the quotes from the actual interview online. Are you denying that Feige himself said this? Because if you can't even admit that much then you just proved my point.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2023 5:22:06 GMT
Wokeness really ruined the third act of Black Widow. They were so set on featuring Nat saving the completely innocent Widows from a Harley Weinberg stand-in that they robbed the film and its lead character of all moral complexity. I’m not opposed to the social messaging of it, but damn if it didn’t make for a boring climax.
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Post by paulslaugh on Feb 6, 2023 7:05:57 GMT
Wokeness really ruined the third act of Black Widow. They were so set on featuring Nat saving the completely innocent Widows from a Harley Weinberg stand-in that they robbed the film and its lead character of all moral complexity. I’m not opposed to the social messaging of it, but damn if it didn’t make for a boring climax. I have no clue what you are taking about. What was life like before "Woke" erupted upon us like cordyceps.
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