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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2023 23:18:39 GMT
Was THE ETERNALS woke? I say no. But I am still trying to figure out why androids designed to fight monsters would need to have any sexual orientation at all. I guess the Celestials still wanted them to have fun? “Go forth, my children and aid the mortals! …And screw a few of em if you want. They’re pretty hot!” It was woke but it was handled more subtly than others. Probably why I enjoyed Eternals. I've always said I had no issues with woke shows as long as they were done properly. But here, let me ask you this: If the Eternals were near-perfect androids, why did one of them have to be deaf and mute? Heck, why make one a kid? Why were the races and genders of the Eternals changed so drastically in the movie from what they were in the comics? If the Eternals were really thousand and thousands of years old and their bodies were modeled after the living human species at that time, shouldn't they have looked a little more alike instead of being vastly diverse? All valid questions. The movie doesn’t answer any but to create a bit of “head canon”: -I’d say she’s deaf because running at a high speed might be too nosy for normal ears. Stupid, I know, but it’s all I got. -Sprite could’ve been made that way to interact specifically with kids? Though this never factors in so it doesn’t fit, but it could have been a valid reason if they made the effort to explain it. -It seems they were dropped in after humans populated the planet so races would’ve evolved fully by then. I actually think the diversity makes sense because everywhere they go they have a member that looks like the native people.
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Post by Skaathar on Feb 11, 2023 23:27:02 GMT
She-Hulk, Supergirl and the latest Charlie's Angels are easy examples of heavily politicized shows. I hear Velma is another one although I haven't watched that one. Religious conservatism and wokism are, on their own, not essentially bad in small doses. The problem comes when they're taken to fanatical levels. Anything done in excess is always a bad thing, balance is always the best path. Leaning too heavily left will flip your boat over just as surely as leaning too heavily right will. I’ve seen She-Hulk and it’s not a political show, but about a woman who turns into a green monster on command. It’s about as political as a Dairy Queen. What you think is political is cultural and we’re talking comic book culture, so how serious is this Woke problem, seriously? She-Hulk is a superhero who has a decent villains gallery. Yet for some reason instead of one of her villains being the main antagonist, the big bad they chose for her show is a group of incels. Are you really going to tell me that decision wasn't socio-politically motivated?
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Post by Skaathar on Feb 11, 2023 23:33:20 GMT
It was woke but it was handled more subtly than others. Probably why I enjoyed Eternals. I've always said I had no issues with woke shows as long as they were done properly. But here, let me ask you this: If the Eternals were near-perfect androids, why did one of them have to be deaf and mute? Heck, why make one a kid? Why were the races and genders of the Eternals changed so drastically in the movie from what they were in the comics? If the Eternals were really thousand and thousands of years old and their bodies were modeled after the living human species at that time, shouldn't they have looked a little more alike instead of being vastly diverse? All valid questions. The movie doesn’t answer any but to create a bit of “head canon”: -I’d say she’s deaf because running at a high speed might be too nosy for normal ears. Stupid, I know, but it’s all I got. -Sprite could’ve been made that way to interact specifically with kids? Though this never factors in so it doesn’t fit, but it could have been a valid reason if they made the effort to explain it. -It seems they were dropped in after humans populated the planet so races would’ve evolved fully by then. I actually think the diversity makes sense because everywhere they go they have a member that looks like the native people. The Eternals all had superpowers, some with incredible strength and toughness. Even Druig was tough enough that he survived getting driven deep into the earth without a scratch. It doesn't make sense that the Celestial couldn't make Makkari's eardrums strong enough to withstand high speeds. Ikaris regular flies at high speeds without breaking his ears after all. It's quite obvious that Makkari was made deaf and mute for diversity reasons. As for being racially diverse, what I'm trying to point out is that the Eternals seemingly came to Earth back when it was just the stone age. At that time, humans weren't quite that racially diverse yet, so how did the Eternals end up being so diverse? Don't get me wrong, I'm not complaining about it, I'm just pointing out that there was obviously a push to make the cast more diverse which is why I consider it woke. That doesn't make it wrong, I'm just calling it what it is.
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Post by paulslaugh on Feb 11, 2023 23:36:13 GMT
I’ve seen She-Hulk and it’s not a political show, but about a woman who turns into a green monster on command. It’s about as political as a Dairy Queen. What you think is political is cultural and we’re talking comic book culture, so how serious is this Woke problem, seriously? She-Hulk is a superhero who has a decent villains gallery. Yet for some reason instead of one of her villains, the big bad they chose for her show is a group of incels. Are you really going to tell me that decision wasn't socio-politically motivated? I see it as trolling and called it as such on the first show, not that I approve of what Marvel/Disney+ did, the series blew chunks and is insulting and disservice to all the fans. You think you are only one with butthurt? It offended me too. So kiss my ass with your own butthurt. But it is a lampoon of incels and their childish, toxic internet culture. There is absolutely no political ideology in the show, it is too banal and idiotic for that. If anything it celebrates Capitalism culture in all its mindless stupidity.
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Post by Skaathar on Feb 11, 2023 23:47:44 GMT
She-Hulk is a superhero who has a decent villains gallery. Yet for some reason instead of one of her villains, the big bad they chose for her show is a group of incels. Are you really going to tell me that decision wasn't socio-politically motivated? I see it as trolling and called it as such on the first show, not that I approve of what Marvel/Disney+ did, the series blew chunks and is insulting and disservice to all the fans. You think you are only one with butthurt? It offended me too. So kiss my ass with your own butthurt. But it is a lampoon of incels and their childish, toxic internet culture. There is absolutely no political ideology in the show, it is too banal and idiotic for that. If anything it celebrates Capitalism culture in all its mindless stupidity. Butthurt? It's a bit too early to be throwing around insults don't you think? The fact that you call me butthurt when I'm simply pointing out issues with She-Hulk already tells me you're not approaching this conversation objectively. And a good chunk of trolling nowadays IS socio-politically driven. Calling it a different thing doesn't change it for what it is. Lampooning on incels IS a socio-political statement. The fact that they used that as their big bad in She-Hulk proved the show is socio-politically influenced. You can like it or hate it but let's at least be honest with what it is.
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Post by Power Ranger on Feb 11, 2023 23:54:46 GMT
I see it as trolling and called it as such on the first show, not that I approve of what Marvel/Disney+ did, the series blew chunks and is insulting and disservice to all the fans. You think you are only one with butthurt? It offended me too. So kiss my ass with your own butthurt. But it is a lampoon of incels and their childish, toxic internet culture. There is absolutely no political ideology in the show, it is too banal and idiotic for that. If anything it celebrates Capitalism culture in all its mindless stupidity. Butthurt? It's a bit too early to be throwing around insults don't you think? The fact that you call me butthurt when I'm simply pointing out issues with She-Hulk already tells me you're not approaching this conversation objectively. And a good chunk of trolling nowadays IS socio-politically driven. Calling it a different thing doesn't change it for what it is. Making the big villain in She-Hulk a group of incels/misogynists/trolls instead of one her villains is still socio-politically driven. You can like it or hate it but let's at least be honest with what it is. Paulslaugh puts her mouth into gear before her brain. Obviously She-Hulk reflected political perspectives. Every text does. The only question is whether it is overt or not. I’d suggest with She-Hulk there was some obvious political commentary. It didn’t bother me because I had long given up on the show already.
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Post by paulslaugh on Feb 12, 2023 0:12:20 GMT
I see it as trolling and called it as such on the first show, not that I approve of what Marvel/Disney+ did, the series blew chunks and is insulting and disservice to all the fans. You think you are only one with butthurt? It offended me too. So kiss my ass with your own butthurt. But it is a lampoon of incels and their childish, toxic internet culture. There is absolutely no political ideology in the show, it is too banal and idiotic for that. If anything it celebrates Capitalism culture in all its mindless stupidity. Butthurt? It's a bit too early to be throwing around insults don't you think? The fact that you call me butthurt when I'm simply pointing out issues with She-Hulk already tells me you're not approaching this conversation objectively. And a good chunk of trolling nowadays IS socio-politically driven. Calling it a different thing doesn't change it for what it is. Lampooning on incels IS a socio-political statement. The fact that they used that as their big bad in She-Hulk proved the show is socio-politically influenced. You can like it or hate it but let's at least be honest with what it is. We’re having a lively conversation, so please take what I say with all good humor and don’t get offended. Sadly, we can’t put laughter into our written words. You want pleasant conversation or a knock down drag out, it’s up to you. I prefer pleasant. You offered She Hulk as your example and I assumed it offended you, ie butthurt. I am also offended, ie, butthurt. So, I’ll rephrase it, your She Hulk butthurt can kiss my She Hulk butthurt…ha-ha. Whatever trolling’s purpose is, it’s still free speech. “Virtue signaling” is another favorite recently made up slang term, but all it is is old fashioned pandering. And what you categorize as social, political, religious is all ultimately cultural and it is our culture that determines the others. In the US, there are multiple cultures all fighting for attention. Some cultural groups take this to self-preservation level and can get nasty to lethal about it. The sooner we deescalate the cheap butthurt feelings, the better. And I am being honest, but I am not a simple thinker and refuse to dumb myself down to be something you me to be. Nor does it offend me at all that you think I’m not a honest, because I’m very confident and well studied in my personal POV and know that I am.
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Post by paulslaugh on Feb 12, 2023 0:13:36 GMT
Butthurt? It's a bit too early to be throwing around insults don't you think? The fact that you call me butthurt when I'm simply pointing out issues with She-Hulk already tells me you're not approaching this conversation objectively. And a good chunk of trolling nowadays IS socio-politically driven. Calling it a different thing doesn't change it for what it is. Making the big villain in She-Hulk a group of incels/misogynists/trolls instead of one her villains is still socio-politically driven. You can like it or hate it but let's at least be honest with what it is. Paulslaugh puts her mouth into gear before her brain. Obviously She-Hulk reflected political perspectives. Every text does. The only question is whether it is overt or not. I’d suggest with She-Hulk there was some obvious political commentary. It didn’t bother me because I had long given up on the show already.Then you should have problem listing them all and your political analysis of them. Go.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2023 0:13:38 GMT
Well, at least we can all agree, regardless of political leanings or opinions on wokeness, that She Hulk was a miserable failure and a pathetic excuse for a tv show. This is progress, guys!
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Post by Power Ranger on Feb 12, 2023 0:22:33 GMT
Paulslaugh puts her mouth into gear before her brain. Obviously She-Hulk reflected political perspectives. Every text does. The only question is whether it is overt or not. I’d suggest with She-Hulk there was some obvious political commentary. It didn’t bother me because I had long given up on the show already.Then you should have problem listing them all and your political analysis of them. Go. Why should I?
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Post by paulslaugh on Feb 12, 2023 0:23:46 GMT
Then you should have problem listing them all and your political analysis of them. Go. Why should I? To prove how smart you really are, Joe Friday.
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Post by Power Ranger on Feb 12, 2023 0:56:41 GMT
To prove how smart you really are, Joe Friday. Oh really? Because you will concede legitimate points? You’re not wasting my time. Not today.
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Post by paulslaugh on Feb 12, 2023 1:00:50 GMT
To prove how smart you really are, Joe Friday. Oh really? Because you will concede legitimate points? You’re not wasting my time. Not today.Thank you. I can use the break.
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Post by formersamhmd on Feb 12, 2023 1:36:53 GMT
My take is if there are black men and woman as lead hero characters, then the movie is necessarily woke? There’s definitely a fuck ton of far right wingers who act that way. The most vocal anti-woke folks are usually bigots. As a progressive though, I do think the way liberals go about their social commentary these days is sometimes flawed, forced, and counterproductive- even when I fundamentally agree with the message. The whole “culture war” thing is bad for the country as a whole. There’s a better way to do this. There is no Culture War, That suggests both sides stand an equal chance of winning. History shows the inevitably, the progression's ideals always wins out.
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Post by Skaathar on Feb 12, 2023 1:39:59 GMT
Butthurt? It's a bit too early to be throwing around insults don't you think? The fact that you call me butthurt when I'm simply pointing out issues with She-Hulk already tells me you're not approaching this conversation objectively. And a good chunk of trolling nowadays IS socio-politically driven. Calling it a different thing doesn't change it for what it is. Lampooning on incels IS a socio-political statement. The fact that they used that as their big bad in She-Hulk proved the show is socio-politically influenced. You can like it or hate it but let's at least be honest with what it is. We’re having a lively conversation, so please take what I say with all good humor and don’t get offended. Sadly, we can’t put laughter into our written words. You want pleasant conversation or a knock down drag out, it’s up to you. I prefer pleasant. You offered She Hulk as your example and I assumed it offended you, ie butthurt. I am also offended, ie, butthurt. So, I’ll rephrase it, your She Hulk butthurt can kiss my She Hulk butthurt…ha-ha. Whatever trolling’s purpose is, it’s still free speech. “Virtue signaling” is another favorite recently made up slang term, but all it is is old fashioned pandering. And what you categorize as social, political, religious is all ultimately cultural and it is our culture that determines the others. In the US, there are multiple cultures all fighting for attention. Some cultural groups take this to self-preservation level and can get nasty to lethal about it. The sooner we deescalate the cheap butthurt feelings, the better. And I am being honest, but I am not a simple thinker and refuse to dumb myself down to be something you me to be. Nor does it offend me at all that you think I’m not a honest, because I’m very confident and well studied in my personal POV and know that I am. I think the problem here is that you believe social politics is completely separate from culture, whereas I'm pretty sure culture is definitely intertwined with social politics. I mean, that's why it's called social politics after all. You can't have social politics without culture. You yourself said that the show was specifically trying to "lampoon" on incels and their toxic culture. Well there you go. That's why it's woke. Whether you want to call that cultural or political, the end result is the same: They were using a superhero show as a vehicle to deliver some kind of social commentary rather than simply making a good superhero show. That doesn't necessarily make it bad. Just because something is woke doesn't automatically mean it's bad. It's just a description. SOme people like it, some people don't. But let's at least call a spade a spade.
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Post by formersamhmd on Feb 12, 2023 1:40:26 GMT
Mixed reception because it dared to try something outside the norm. Which simply shows how stagnant Star Wars really is in the minds of the "fans" if the smallest thing can enrage them in such a way.
I still run into morons who say "The Casino Planet was 100% unnecessary!" and they fail to realize that if they hadn't found DJ there, the entire 3rd Act couldn't happen.
Tough Noogies, he couldn't stay exactly the same after 30 years. Rey was the lead, not him, they weren't going to kill off Rey to make Luke the hero again.
No, it's a Japanese thing. But it's a good example of how "fans" should accept that new entries will be about new characters and not to think it's always going to be about the same old characters forever.
Admittedly, Lucas himself is partly to blame for this because HE refused to make new characters when he had the chance.
It wasn't only disliked because it tried to be something different, people have expressed criticism over various aspects pertaining to the general filmmaking and the general storytelling. One person here on Reddit composes a pretty articulate explanation as to why they feel the film's screenwriting is poor, link
Acquaintance of mine Kamran Pasha also used the film to teach bad screenwriting craft in seminars he has taught, linkI would argue that you could certainly have Rey be the lead of the story, and not deconstruct Luke Skywalker like how Rian Johnson had. I also feel more people would like Rey if she were a better constructed character - we are tasked with having to join her in her journey and cheer for her, but we're not given enough reasons as to why we should. If they complain about Canto Bright or Holdo not being a doormat for Poe, then they weren't paying attention.
He should use actual bad films, like the Prequels.
You can't, as long as Luke was around the "fans" would always be complaining he should be doing everything Rey was doing. As for Rey being "better constructed", they weren't going to make her a useless shrieking damsel who needed Finn and Poe to do everything for her.
The story of the Sequels was about Rey and Ren, Finn and Poe weren't even meant to be major characters to start with.
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Post by formersamhmd on Feb 12, 2023 1:41:33 GMT
Supergirl was "Woke" but somehow Stargirl wasn't. What lovely double standards... Supergirl did get very woke starting in its second season when it moved to The CW, agendas were emphasized stronger than actual plot. Stargirl had woke elements but not to the degree of Supergirl's later seasons and it helped that the seasons were shorter, so the producers had to keep the plot focused. No more woke than the Superman stories themselves were. Comics always have dealt with social and political commentary.
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Post by formersamhmd on Feb 12, 2023 1:43:47 GMT
I’ve seen She-Hulk and it’s not a political show, but about a woman who turns into a green monster on command. It’s about as political as a Dairy Queen. What you think is political is cultural and we’re talking comic book culture, so how serious is this Woke problem, seriously? She-Hulk is a superhero who has a decent villains gallery. Yet for some reason instead of one of her villains being the main antagonist, the big bad they chose for her show is a group of incels. Are you really going to tell me that decision wasn't socio-politically motivated? No more than the Big Bang Theory is misogynistic.
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Post by formersamhmd on Feb 12, 2023 1:45:24 GMT
We’re having a lively conversation, so please take what I say with all good humor and don’t get offended. Sadly, we can’t put laughter into our written words. You want pleasant conversation or a knock down drag out, it’s up to you. I prefer pleasant. You offered She Hulk as your example and I assumed it offended you, ie butthurt. I am also offended, ie, butthurt. So, I’ll rephrase it, your She Hulk butthurt can kiss my She Hulk butthurt…ha-ha. Whatever trolling’s purpose is, it’s still free speech. “Virtue signaling” is another favorite recently made up slang term, but all it is is old fashioned pandering. And what you categorize as social, political, religious is all ultimately cultural and it is our culture that determines the others. In the US, there are multiple cultures all fighting for attention. Some cultural groups take this to self-preservation level and can get nasty to lethal about it. The sooner we deescalate the cheap butthurt feelings, the better. And I am being honest, but I am not a simple thinker and refuse to dumb myself down to be something you me to be. Nor does it offend me at all that you think I’m not a honest, because I’m very confident and well studied in my personal POV and know that I am. I think the problem here is that you believe social politics is completely separate from culture, whereas I'm pretty sure culture is definitely intertwined with social politics. I mean, that's why it's called social politics after all. You can't have social politics without culture. You yourself said that the show was specifically trying to "lampoon" on incels and their toxic culture. Well there you go. That's why it's woke. Whether you call that cultural or political, the end result is the same: They were using a superhero show as a vehicle to deliver some kind of social commentary rather than simply making a good superhero show. That doesn't necessarily make it bad. Just because something is woke doesn't automatically mean it's bad. It's just a description. SOme people like it, some people don't. But let's at least call a spade a spade. Comics have always dealt with social commentary. Go read X-Men and tell me there's no commentary there.
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Post by paulslaugh on Feb 12, 2023 1:49:39 GMT
We’re having a lively conversation, so please take what I say with all good humor and don’t get offended. Sadly, we can’t put laughter into our written words. You want pleasant conversation or a knock down drag out, it’s up to you. I prefer pleasant. You offered She Hulk as your example and I assumed it offended you, ie butthurt. I am also offended, ie, butthurt. So, I’ll rephrase it, your She Hulk butthurt can kiss my She Hulk butthurt…ha-ha. Whatever trolling’s purpose is, it’s still free speech. “Virtue signaling” is another favorite recently made up slang term, but all it is is old fashioned pandering. And what you categorize as social, political, religious is all ultimately cultural and it is our culture that determines the others. In the US, there are multiple cultures all fighting for attention. Some cultural groups take this to self-preservation level and can get nasty to lethal about it. The sooner we deescalate the cheap butthurt feelings, the better. And I am being honest, but I am not a simple thinker and refuse to dumb myself down to be something you me to be. Nor does it offend me at all that you think I’m not a honest, because I’m very confident and well studied in my personal POV and know that I am. I think the problem here is that you believe social politics is completely separate from culture, whereas I'm saying culture is definitely included in social politics. I mean, that's why it's called social politics after all. You yourself said that the show was specifically trying to "lampoon" on incels and their toxic culture. Well there you go. That's why it's woke. Whether you call that cultural or political, the end result is the same: They were using a superhero show as a vehicle to deliver some kind of social commentary rather than simply making a good superhero show. That doesn't necessarily make it bad. Just because something is woke doesn't automatically mean it's bad. It's just a description. SOme people like it, some people don't. But let's at least call a duck a duck. I said the opposite of that. So another problem for me is the exhaustion of having explanation things in detail so you do not misunderstand what I’m saying. We can’t come to any common ground. I agree with you She Hulk was crap and done on purpose to troll, aka insult, a particular group of petty and annoying, but nonetheless Marvel fans. We are more agreement than you realize. But you guys will overblow it into a political movement orchestrated in Liberal agents out to destroy who you are as a man and that’s an illusion in my educated estimation.
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