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Post by mystery on Jan 28, 2023 15:17:14 GMT
But, after a fair amount of deliberation, I guess I'll give you one story. I think I've already posted this before, anyway. I was on a slow boat in Peru, and I was getting bored, so I decided to go into ecstasy. It's very simple, just close my eyes and focus, and it looks like I'm resting. It feels like you're glowing, like an electric current is running through you from head to toe. We arrived at the dock, and I got off the boat, but then this lady ran after me and stopped me. She looked at me with wide eyed wonder, and said that she saw the Light come down, and that God was in me. Everyone was standing there, staring at me, and I was obviously shocked and horrified, and humiliated beyond words. She grabbed my hands and started praying like I was some sort of saint, so I told her I really had to go, and then I turned around and ran away. Needless to say, I don't do that in public anymore. I've had a lot of experiences that I've never told a soul. Some of us don't want attention, and it's just a personal thing. I do understand the appeal of atheism, because there is absolutely some comfort in thinking everything in the world is easily explained and logical, doesn't challenge our understanding of reality. If that works for you, that's great. But that's not my experience. Life can be amazingly weird sometimes. You seem to think that only atheists would look upon this tale of maybe being touched by God with skepticism. I'll bet you that most theists would also. So, if something is not easily explained by science, then you assume I'm lying about it? Okay. Ecstasy is something I've done ever since my early childhood. I never knew what it was or how it worked, and I honestly still don't. I've explored different religions that seem to have similar experiences. In paganism (Wicca), there's a rite called Drawing Down the Moon, which I used to think sounded similar to my experiences, although I don't do any ritual stuff. Buddhism has trance states that involve ecstasy or raptures (piti, I think?). Shamanism and Christian Mystics also may have similar experiences. The ecstasy itself isn't all that unusual. What was unusual was that the woman saw it. As for me, I just look back on it as a strange and humiliating experience that I really don't want to repeat.
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Post by mystery on Jan 28, 2023 15:22:50 GMT
Some of us have our own evidence and reasons for believing. Yeah, you were indoctrinated from birth with the idea that the supernatural is rational. It's why you believed in the Easter Bunny when you were five. I actually never believed in the Easter Bunny, or Santa Claus. And I'm sure some people would argue that I never believed in the Christian god, either. I went to church, but mostly just played hangman in the margins of the church bulletin. Oh well.
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Post by Isapop on Jan 28, 2023 16:23:49 GMT
You seem to think that only atheists would look upon this tale of maybe being touched by God with skepticism. I'll bet you that most theists would also. So, if something is not easily explained by science, then you assume I'm lying about it? Okay. What a strange jump. To be skeptical, to not take something simply at face value, in your mind, is an accusation of lying? Someone can easily give you the benefit of the doubt and think you believe what you're telling. But you don't address my point that (besides atheists) most theists would be skeptical about your account.
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Post by heeeeey on Jan 28, 2023 17:24:39 GMT
Not one atheist here can disprove my OP. Just because you don't see it, can't measure it, can't weigh it, can't reduce it to a equation, doesn't mean it's not there. And that burns your asses. LOL
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Post by mystery on Jan 28, 2023 17:25:09 GMT
So, if something is not easily explained by science, then you assume I'm lying about it? Okay. What a strange jump. To be skeptical, to not take something simply at face value, in your mind, is an accusation of lying? Someone can easily give you the benefit of the doubt and think you believe what you're telling. But you don't address my point that (besides atheists) most theists would be skeptical about your account. I simply told you exactly what she told me, but you're obviously free to believe whatever you wish. I've never been overly concerned about other people's opinions. My goal isn't to conform to any particular belief system, but rather to approach life with integrity and an open heart, and try to discover the deeper truths beyond all the noise. Needless to say, some of my beliefs and experiences aren't exactly mainstream, but I'm okay with that. I've never thought the crowd was particularly wise or enlightened, and I never aspired to become a follower. I'm way too hard headed for that.
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Post by lowtacks86 on Jan 28, 2023 19:02:57 GMT
Not one atheist here can disprove my OP. Just because you don't see it, can't measure it, can't weigh it, can't reduce it to a equation, doesn't mean it's not there. And that burns your asses. LOL Well no, I already addressed your Low IQ argument (notice how you didn't actually respond). What you're essetnially talking about is called an "unfalsifiable hypothesis" (a claim that can't be disproven). That's actually not really a good way to make assesments about reality, otherwise you would have to believe in a number of riddiculous claims (alien origin theory, virtual simulation theory, reincarnation). Imagine if our legal system worked that way, if someone was accused and investigated for murder but there was no actual evidence he did it, but conversley there was no evidence that proved he didn't commit the murder (can't be disproven), them by your reasoning it would be perfectly fine to have him charged with murder and throw them in jail. Do you see why this is dumb?
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Post by heeeeey on Jan 28, 2023 19:45:02 GMT
Not one atheist here can disprove my OP. Just because you don't see it, can't measure it, can't weigh it, can't reduce it to a equation, doesn't mean it's not there. And that burns your asses. LOL Well no, I already addressed your Low IQ argument (notice how you didn't actually respond). What you're essetnially talking about is called an "unfalsifiable hypothesis" (a claim that can't be disproven). That's actually not really a good way to make assesments about reality, otherwise you would have to believe in a number of riddiculous claims (alien origin theory, virtual simulation theory, reincarnation). Imagine if our legal system worked that way, if someone was accused and investigated for murder but there was no actual evidence he did it, but conversley there was no evidence that proved he didn't commit the murder (can't be disproven), them by your reasoning it would be perfectly fine to have him charged with murder and throw them in jail. Do you see why this is dumb? I'm not talking about our legal system or anything else you can measure. My OP is perfectly clear: just because you can't see it or measure it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. The fact that you don't know everything, and that your knowledge is actually SEVERELY LIMITED, frosts your ass big time. LOL
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Post by lowtacks86 on Jan 28, 2023 19:50:07 GMT
Well no, I already addressed your Low IQ argument (notice how you didn't actually respond). What you're essetnially talking about is called an "unfalsifiable hypothesis" (a claim that can't be disproven). That's actually not really a good way to make assesments about reality, otherwise you would have to believe in a number of riddiculous claims (alien origin theory, virtual simulation theory, reincarnation). Imagine if our legal system worked that way, if someone was accused and investigated for murder but there was no actual evidence he did it, but conversley there was no evidence that proved he didn't commit the murder (can't be disproven), them by your reasoning it would be perfectly fine to have him charged with murder and throw them in jail. Do you see why this is dumb? I'm not talking about our legal system or anything else you can measure. My OP is perfectly clear: just because you can't see it or measure it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. The fact that you don't know everything, and that your knowledge is actually SEVERELY LIMITED, frosts your ass big time. LOL Yeah I know you're not talking about our legal system, that's why it's called an "analogy", and your inability to actually engage with it is foretelling. How would you "measure" the legal system? What does that even mean? Again what you talking about is just an unfalsifiable hypothesis.
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Post by heeeeey on Jan 28, 2023 21:14:36 GMT
There is no evidence whatsoever for any of the following - Jehovah (a.k.a. Yahwey, God)
- Santa Clause
- Unicorns
- Sasquatch
- Teapots circling Mars
- Leprechauns
- A flood that killed all but a handful of humans.
- Atlantis
- Goldilocks
- Rumplestilskin
- Snow White
Just because there is no evidence, it doesn't mean that they don't exist. How many of the above do you believe are real?
Exactly. You don't know if they exist or not. Would you be willing to bet your life savings they don't?
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Post by Rodney Farber on Jan 28, 2023 23:25:13 GMT
There is no evidence whatsoever for any of the following - Jehovah (a.k.a. Yahwey, God)
- Santa Clause
- Unicorns
- Sasquatch
- Teapots circling Mars
- Leprechauns
- A flood that killed all but a handful of humans.
- Atlantis
- Goldilocks
- Rumplestilskin
- Snow White
Just because there is no evidence, it doesn't mean that they don't exist. How many of the above do you believe are real?
Exactly. You don't know if they exist or not. Would you be willing to bet your life savings they don't? Are you willing to bet your life savings that any of them are real?
You see, the real God is Thor. You're wasting you time praying to Jehovah, Yahweh, Abraham, or Jesus. As Homer Simpson said, "… And what if we picked the wrong religion? Every week we're just making God madder and madder." Of the 3822 most popular religions, I'm not picking one until I see some evidence whereas you are willing to bet it all on the old-wives-tale that you've been spoon-fed week after week.
Thor, the real God, once decided to come to earth to have a son. After seducing his chosen mate, he stood up, thumped his chest and yelled, "I'M THOR", at which point she whimpered, "You're thor? I tho thor I can't pith".
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Post by captainbryce on Jan 29, 2023 0:07:33 GMT
Not one atheist here can disprove my OP. Just because you don't see it, can't measure it, can't weigh it, can't reduce it to an equation, doesn't mean it's not there. And that burns your asses. LOL We don’t need to disprove the OP. It doesn’t do anything to validate the existence of your god. Especially when you make ridiculous and unsubstantiated claims like asserting that things can violate the laws of physics without a single shred of evidence to support this. If you don’t have evidence, then you don’t have a case. It’s not on us to disprove anything. Burden of proof is always on the one making the claim.
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Post by captainbryce on Jan 29, 2023 0:10:14 GMT
There is no evidence whatsoever for any of the following - Jehovah (a.k.a. Yahwey, God)
- Santa Clause
- Unicorns
- Sasquatch
- Teapots circling Mars
- Leprechauns
- A flood that killed all but a handful of humans.
- Atlantis
- Goldilocks
- Rumplestilskin
- Snow White
Just because there is no evidence, it doesn't mean that they don't exist. How many of the above do you believe are real?
Exactly. You don't know if they exist or not. Would you be willing to bet your life savings they don't? It depends…what’s in it for me? What would I get for being right?
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Post by Sarge on Jan 29, 2023 1:59:40 GMT
Yeah, you were indoctrinated from birth with the idea that the supernatural is rational. It's why you believed in the Easter Bunny when you were five. I actually never believed in the Easter Bunny, or Santa Claus. And I'm sure some people would argue that I never believed in the Christian god, either. I went to church, but mostly just played hangman in the margins of the church bulletin. Oh well. Unless you are Muslim or Jehovah's Witness or something like that, you almost certainly believed in the Easter Bunny, Santa, etc.
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Post by paulslaugh on Jan 29, 2023 5:19:31 GMT
I actually never believed in the Easter Bunny, or Santa Claus. And I'm sure some people would argue that I never believed in the Christian god, either. I went to church, but mostly just played hangman in the margins of the church bulletin. Oh well. Unless you are Muslim or Jehovah's Witness or something like that, you almost certainly believed in the Easter Bunny, Santa, etc. It's weird that he was such a skeptical kid, but as an adult, is willing to entertain the supernatural.
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Post by captainbryce on Jan 29, 2023 6:42:58 GMT
Unless you are Muslim or Jehovah's Witness or something like that, you almost certainly believed in the Easter Bunny, Santa, etc. It's weird that he was such a skeptical kid, but as an adult, is willing to entertain the supernatural. I was unusually skeptical as a kid myself but I never believed in Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny because my parents never lied to me about Santa being real. I did however believe in God because I was raised in a Christian household. Kids generally believe what the adults in their household believe UNTIL they reach the age of reason and begin to question what they’ve been taught.
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Post by paulslaugh on Jan 29, 2023 6:51:00 GMT
It's weird that he was such a skeptical kid, but as an adult, is willing to entertain the supernatural. I was unusually skeptical as a kid myself but I never believed in Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny because my parents never lied to me about Santa being real. I did however believe in God because I was raised in a Christian household. Kids generally believe what the adults in their household believe UNTIL they reach the age of reason and begin to question what they’ve been taught. So you didn’t really think about it, but believed what you were told to believe. How did you deal with your playmates’ belief in Santa? It must have been torture for you listening to them prattling their insane nonsense.
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Post by mystery on Jan 29, 2023 11:48:23 GMT
I actually never believed in the Easter Bunny, or Santa Claus. And I'm sure some people would argue that I never believed in the Christian god, either. I went to church, but mostly just played hangman in the margins of the church bulletin. Oh well. Unless you are Muslim or Jehovah's Witness or something like that, you almost certainly believed in the Easter Bunny, Santa, etc. My grandmother strongly disapproved of Santa, so my parents never pushed it very much. I remember when I was around 5 or 6, I snuck out on Christmas Eve night to watch my parents put the presents under the tree. I watched my mom putting out the Easter eggs in the yard and I woke up when she put Tooth Fairy money under my pillow. And for most of my youth, I suffered anxiety that I would go to hell, because I didn't really believe in Jesus. I wanted to and I tried to, but I couldn't just decide what I believed in. I prayed the sinner's prayer over and over again, hoping that I'd feel different, but I never did. I started refusing to go to Sunday school before I was a teenager, and then I tried to read the Bible. And it was all downhill from there.
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Post by mystery on Jan 29, 2023 11:50:51 GMT
Unless you are Muslim or Jehovah's Witness or something like that, you almost certainly believed in the Easter Bunny, Santa, etc. It's weird that he was such a skeptical kid, but as an adult, is willing to entertain the supernatural. It's easy to believe in something when you have some proof.
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Post by paulslaugh on Jan 29, 2023 11:59:10 GMT
It's weird that he was such a skeptical kid, but as an adult, is willing to entertain the supernatural. It's easy to believe in something when you have some proof. So long as the proof is valid. How do you know it is?
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Post by mystery on Jan 29, 2023 12:09:06 GMT
It's easy to believe in something when you have some proof. So long as the proof is valid. How do you know it is? Because I experienced it myself. It's hard to argue with firsthand experience.
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