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Post by paulslaugh on Jan 29, 2023 12:38:37 GMT
So long as the proof is valid. How do you know it is? Because I experienced it myself. It's hard to argue with firsthand experience. Do you think folks who’ve been abducted by aliens, who have also have firsthand experience, actually have met aliens?
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Post by amyghost on Jan 29, 2023 12:53:29 GMT
So long as the proof is valid. How do you know it is? Because I experienced it myself. It's hard to argue with firsthand experience. 'Firsthand experience' is, in my experience, one of the easiest things to argue with. And one of the most difficult to shake the believer's faith in. Humans are remarkably good at validating the utterly irrational to themselves, and being resistant to any rational proofs of that 'firsthand experience' being not real--if they want to convince themselves of its reality badly enough. And many human beings do want to convince themselves of it that badly. It's another one of those wonky traits that would appear to be hardwired into our shadow-haunted human brains.
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Post by mystery on Jan 29, 2023 13:00:08 GMT
Because I experienced it myself. It's hard to argue with firsthand experience. Do you think folks who’ve been abducted by aliens, who have also have firsthand experience, actually have met aliens? I have no opinion about aliens, and I've never spoken to anyone who claimed to be abducted, so I don't have any strong feelings about it one way or the other. But if they did have these experiences, then I understand why they would believe it. I have premonitions and spiritual ecstasy, as well as many other unexplained experiences, and that's why it's easy for me to believe that there's more to reality than meets the eye.
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Post by paulslaugh on Jan 29, 2023 13:04:31 GMT
Do you think folks who’ve been abducted by aliens, who have also have firsthand experience, actually have met aliens? I have no opinion about aliens, and I've never spoken to anyone who claimed to be abducted, so I don't have any strong feelings about it one way or the other. But if they did have these experiences, then I understand why they would believe it. I have premonitions and spiritual ecstasy, as well as many other unexplained experiences, and that's why it's easy for me to believe that there's more to reality than meets the eye. I do too. All the time, but I also understand how our brains can fool us. I’m not saying you’re not having genuine experiences, but you assume what’s happening to you is spiritual when it could be something physical.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2023 13:04:35 GMT
Because I experienced it myself. It's hard to argue with firsthand experience. Do you think folks who’ve been abducted by aliens, who have also have firsthand experience, actually have met aliens? I believe that people believe they have experienced/seen these things... But that doesn't mean they actually have.
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Post by mystery on Jan 29, 2023 13:29:55 GMT
I have no opinion about aliens, and I've never spoken to anyone who claimed to be abducted, so I don't have any strong feelings about it one way or the other. But if they did have these experiences, then I understand why they would believe it. I have premonitions and spiritual ecstasy, as well as many other unexplained experiences, and that's why it's easy for me to believe that there's more to reality than meets the eye. I do too. All the time, but I also understand how our brains can fool us. I’m not saying you’re not having genuine experiences, but you assume what’s happening to you is spiritual when it could be something physical. But "something physical" can't explain how or why it happens. I was an atheist, too, and I kept dismissing things as coincidence, over and over again. Finally, I asked Divinity for a sign, and I got way, way more than I bargained for. It was probably the most profound and beautiful and terrifying experience of my life. You can believe whatever you wish. As for me, I will never be a skeptic again.
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Post by paulslaugh on Jan 29, 2023 13:40:34 GMT
I do too. All the time, but I also understand how our brains can fool us. I’m not saying you’re not having genuine experiences, but you assume what’s happening to you is spiritual when it could be something physical. But "something physical" can't explain how or why it happens. I was an atheist, too, and I kept dismissing things as coincidence, over and over again. Finally, I asked Divinity for a sign, and I got way, way more than I bargained for. It was probably the most profound and beautiful and terrifying experience of my life. You can believe whatever you wish. As for me, I will never be a skeptic again. It’s your brain doing it. I can get into a higher state of consciousness using magic mushrooms, but I never mistake it as not the work of my own enhanced brain chemistry. You could be having waking dreams, hallucinations, even experiencing natural phenomena that seems out of the ordinary or simply misunderstood. Have you tested any of these events or just accept them as divine communications without question?
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Post by mystery on Jan 29, 2023 13:53:18 GMT
But "something physical" can't explain how or why it happens. I was an atheist, too, and I kept dismissing things as coincidence, over and over again. Finally, I asked Divinity for a sign, and I got way, way more than I bargained for. It was probably the most profound and beautiful and terrifying experience of my life. You can believe whatever you wish. As for me, I will never be a skeptic again. It’s your brain doing it. I can get into a higher state of consciousness using magic mushrooms, but I never mistake it as not the work of my own enhanced brain chemistry. You could be having waking dreams, hallucinations, even experiencing natural phenomena that seems out of the ordinary or simply misunderstood. Have you tested any of these events or just accept them as divine communications without question? It ended up on the news. I didn't imagine it. I don't understand what you mean by testing an event. Premonitions come true, and they've saved my life at least several times. They make me virtually fearless. I definitely wouldn't have had the courage to travel the world as a solo female backpacker if I didn't get a heads up when I was getting myself into trouble. Everyone thinks I'm so brave, but I'm really not.
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Post by Isapop on Jan 29, 2023 17:02:10 GMT
What a strange jump. To be skeptical, to not take something simply at face value, in your mind, is an accusation of lying? Someone can easily give you the benefit of the doubt and think you believe what you're telling. But you don't address my point that (besides atheists) most theists would be skeptical about your account. I simply told you exactly what she told me, but you're obviously free to believe whatever you wish. I've never been overly concerned about other people's opinions. My goal isn't to conform to any particular belief system, but rather to approach life with integrity and an open heart, and try to discover the deeper truths beyond all the noise. Needless to say, some of my beliefs and experiences aren't exactly mainstream, but I'm okay with that. I've never thought the crowd was particularly wise or enlightened, and I never aspired to become a follower. I'm way too hard headed for that. I understand now. Your beliefs result because you "approach life with integrity and an open heart, and try to discover the deeper truths beyond all the noise." My (and others) beliefs result from what I wish to believe out of my need to conform. How facilely insulting you are.
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Post by Sarge on Jan 29, 2023 17:34:30 GMT
I do too. All the time, but I also understand how our brains can fool us. I’m not saying you’re not having genuine experiences, but you assume what’s happening to you is spiritual when it could be something physical. But "something physical" can't explain how or why it happens. I was an atheist, too, and I kept dismissing things as coincidence, over and over again. Finally, I asked Divinity for a sign, and I got way, way more than I bargained for. It was probably the most profound and beautiful and terrifying experience of my life. You can believe whatever you wish. As for me, I will never be a skeptic again. Human perception is highly unreliable. There are thousands of stories illustrating the unreliability of human memory and perception, its why science is based on peer review and duplication of results. IRL God needs people to build his churches, collect dues, heal the sick, write his books, spread his Word, punish sinners, and convert people; he doesn't appear to people individually, doesn't answer prayers, and doesn't give signs. It's almost like there is no god and people do all the work.
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Post by heeeeey on Jan 29, 2023 19:40:43 GMT
But "something physical" can't explain how or why it happens. I was an atheist, too, and I kept dismissing things as coincidence, over and over again. Finally, I asked Divinity for a sign, and I got way, way more than I bargained for. It was probably the most profound and beautiful and terrifying experience of my life. You can believe whatever you wish. As for me, I will never be a skeptic again. It’s your brain doing it. I can get into a higher state of consciousness using magic mushrooms, but I never mistake it as not the work of my own enhanced brain chemistry. You could be having waking dreams, hallucinations, even experiencing natural phenomena that seems out of the ordinary or simply misunderstood. Have you tested any of these events or just accept them as divine communications without question? That's the usual, easy cop-out excuse of the atheist: "The brain did it." The difference is, when someone has an hallucination from 'magic mushrooms', they KNOW it was just an hallucination after they come out of it. A spiritual experience is way different, and it has a profound effect on the person's life. If you've never had one, you are in no position to tell anyone who has what it was they experienced.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2023 20:10:31 GMT
It’s your brain doing it. I can get into a higher state of consciousness using magic mushrooms, but I never mistake it as not the work of my own enhanced brain chemistry. You could be having waking dreams, hallucinations, even experiencing natural phenomena that seems out of the ordinary or simply misunderstood. Have you tested any of these events or just accept them as divine communications without question? That's the usual, easy cop-out excuse of the atheist: "The brain did it." The difference is, when someone has an hallucination from 'magic mushrooms', they KNOW it was just an hallucination after they come out of it. A spiritual experience is way different, and it has a profound effect on the person's life. If you've never had one, you are in no position to tell anyone who has what it was they experienced. Tell us about your spiritual experience then. So that we can digest and understand your experience... Bear witness to your faith.
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Post by Catman on Jan 29, 2023 20:11:51 GMT
Along the same lines, just because you can't smell it doesn't mean there's not something rotten in Denmark.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2023 20:14:29 GMT
Along the same lines, just because you can't smell it doesn't mean there's not something rotten in Denmark. That will be the surströmming 🤮
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Post by faustus5 on Jan 29, 2023 20:48:06 GMT
It’s your brain doing it. I can get into a higher state of consciousness using magic mushrooms, but I never mistake it as not the work of my own enhanced brain chemistry. You could be having waking dreams, hallucinations, even experiencing natural phenomena that seems out of the ordinary or simply misunderstood. Have you tested any of these events or just accept them as divine communications without question? That's the usual, easy cop-out excuse of the atheist: "The brain did it." The difference is, when someone has an hallucination from 'magic mushrooms', they KNOW it was just an hallucination after they come out of it. A spiritual experience is way different, and it has a profound effect on the person's life. If you've never had one, you are in no position to tell anyone who has what it was they experienced. But that doesn't matter, because people like you aren't content to just tell us what your experiences were like. Nobody is trying to debate you on what your experiences were like for you, or what they mean for you psychologically or spiritually.
Your problem is that you also want us to believe conclusions you have made about reality on the basis of those experiences. Those conclusions are utterly bogus.
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Post by paulslaugh on Jan 29, 2023 23:09:02 GMT
It’s your brain doing it. I can get into a higher state of consciousness using magic mushrooms, but I never mistake it as not the work of my own enhanced brain chemistry. You could be having waking dreams, hallucinations, even experiencing natural phenomena that seems out of the ordinary or simply misunderstood. Have you tested any of these events or just accept them as divine communications without question? That's the usual, easy cop-out excuse of the atheist: "The brain did it." The difference is, when someone has an hallucination from 'magic mushrooms', they KNOW it was just an hallucination after they come out of it. A spiritual experience is way different, and it has a profound effect on the person's life. If you've never had one, you are in no position to tell anyone who has what it was they experienced. It’s a legitimate question.
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Post by paulslaugh on Jan 29, 2023 23:15:04 GMT
It’s your brain doing it. I can get into a higher state of consciousness using magic mushrooms, but I never mistake it as not the work of my own enhanced brain chemistry. You could be having waking dreams, hallucinations, even experiencing natural phenomena that seems out of the ordinary or simply misunderstood. Have you tested any of these events or just accept them as divine communications without question? It ended up on the news. I didn't imagine it. I don't understand what you mean by testing an event. Premonitions come true, and they've saved my life at least several times. They make me virtually fearless. I definitely wouldn't have had the courage to travel the world as a solo female backpacker if I didn't get a heads up when I was getting myself into trouble. Everyone thinks I'm so brave, but I'm really not. So you’re famous?
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Post by mystery on Jan 30, 2023 0:12:09 GMT
I simply told you exactly what she told me, but you're obviously free to believe whatever you wish. I've never been overly concerned about other people's opinions. My goal isn't to conform to any particular belief system, but rather to approach life with integrity and an open heart, and try to discover the deeper truths beyond all the noise. Needless to say, some of my beliefs and experiences aren't exactly mainstream, but I'm okay with that. I've never thought the crowd was particularly wise or enlightened, and I never aspired to become a follower. I'm way too hard headed for that. I understand now. Your beliefs result because you "approach life with integrity and an open heart, and try to discover the deeper truths beyond all the noise." My (and others) beliefs result from what I wish to believe out of my need to conform. How facilely insulting you are. Uh... don't you think you're overreacting just a smidge? I wasn't trying to insult you, and I apologize if I did. You have to understand that whenever I've talked to Christians about my experiences, their reaction is usually, "Well, what does the Bible say about it?" I don't really care. And when I talk to atheists about my experience, their reaction is, "Well, what do the scientists and scholars say about it?" Again, don't care. Neither religion nor science has all the answers, although they certainly love to pretend that they do. I would much prefer to go exploring, to seek out the answers to my own questions, rather than having someone else tell me what to believe.
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Post by mystery on Jan 30, 2023 0:16:09 GMT
But "something physical" can't explain how or why it happens. I was an atheist, too, and I kept dismissing things as coincidence, over and over again. Finally, I asked Divinity for a sign, and I got way, way more than I bargained for. It was probably the most profound and beautiful and terrifying experience of my life. You can believe whatever you wish. As for me, I will never be a skeptic again. Human perception is highly unreliable. There are thousands of stories illustrating the unreliability of human memory and perception, its why science is based on peer review and duplication of results. IRL God needs people to build his churches, collect dues, heal the sick, write his books, spread his Word, punish sinners, and convert people; he doesn't appear to people individually, doesn't answer prayers, and doesn't give signs. It's almost like there is no god and people do all the work. As I've said to others, you're free to believe as you wish, but as for myself, I have no doubts whatsoever about my experiences. It seems like atheists typically only have two responses to spiritual experiences: 1) to find some scientific explanation to debunk it, or 2) to deny that it ever happened. It's almost like the atheist version of "heads I win, tails you lose." I've altered my behavior dramatically and response to premonitions. Sometimes my premonitions come as abstract riddles that I have to decipher, and then I have to spend a significant amount of time trying to solve them before the event happens. It's not a matter of faulty memory or perception.
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Post by Isapop on Jan 30, 2023 0:26:04 GMT
I understand now. Your beliefs result because you "approach life with integrity and an open heart, and try to discover the deeper truths beyond all the noise." My (and others) beliefs result from what I wish to believe out of my need to conform. How facilely insulting you are. Uh... don't you think you're overreacting just a smidge? I wasn't trying to insult you, and I apologize if I did. You have to understand that whenever I've talked to Christians about my experiences, their reaction is usually, "Well, what does the Bible say about it?" I don't really care. And when I talk to atheists about my experience, their reaction is, "Well, what do the scientists and scholars say about it?" Again, don't care. Neither religion nor science has all the answers, although they certainly love to pretend that they do. I would much prefer to go exploring, to seek out the answers to my own questions, rather than having someone else tell me what to believe.I believe you weren't trying to be insulting. It just seems to come naturally to you because you do it again: You obtain your answers by seeking and exploring, while the rest of us believe what we are told to believe.
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