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Post by novastar6 on Jun 29, 2023 17:53:17 GMT
A good question is why are pro-abortion people so angry? And why do they not want to be called pro-abortion? They make it perfectly clear it's the ONLY choice they care about and ONE choice is not having a choice.
But for feeling like they're on the side of right, they are very angry and can't even explain why.
It's amazing how so many people can feel so strongly and be so convicted on a topic that they blindly refuse to even hear another viewpoint, but they can't explain their own position, the science behind that position, they say it's lifesaving but offer nothing as proof thereof, and can't even have a simple discussion without screaming and demonizing somebody who is doing absolutely nothing to them.
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Jun 29, 2023 18:59:50 GMT
A good question is why are pro-abortion people so angry? And why do they not want to be called pro-abortion? They make it perfectly clear it's the ONLY choice they care about and ONE choice is not having a choice. But for feeling like they're on the side of right, they are very angry and can't even explain why. It's amazing how so many people can feel so strongly and be so convicted on a topic that they blindly refuse to even hear another viewpoint, but they can't explain their own position, the science behind that position, they say it's lifesaving but offer nothing as proof thereof, and can't even have a simple discussion without screaming and demonizing somebody who is doing absolutely nothing to them. It would make more sense to take great exception to divorce say, about which Jesus has a lot of negative things to say. I don't recall anything from him (or indeed anywhere in the Bible) against legal killing.
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Post by novastar6 on Jun 29, 2023 19:37:09 GMT
A good question is why are pro-abortion people so angry? And why do they not want to be called pro-abortion? They make it perfectly clear it's the ONLY choice they care about and ONE choice is not having a choice. But for feeling like they're on the side of right, they are very angry and can't even explain why. It's amazing how so many people can feel so strongly and be so convicted on a topic that they blindly refuse to even hear another viewpoint, but they can't explain their own position, the science behind that position, they say it's lifesaving but offer nothing as proof thereof, and can't even have a simple discussion without screaming and demonizing somebody who is doing absolutely nothing to them. It would make more sense to take great exception to divorce say, about which Jesus has a lot of negative things to say. I don't recall anything from him (or indeed anywhere in the Bible) against legal killing.
It does against child sacrifice though, and the more depraved details come out about the whole industry, child sacrifice becomes the only logical explanation for some of the stuff that goes on there.
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Jun 29, 2023 20:07:13 GMT
It would make more sense to take great exception to divorce say, about which Jesus has a lot of negative things to say. I don't recall anything from him (or indeed anywhere in the Bible) against legal killing.
It does against child sacrifice though, and the more depraved details come out about the whole industry, child sacrifice becomes the only logical explanation for some of the stuff that goes on there.
If a sacrifice is defined as an act of slaughtering an animal or person or surrendering a possession as an offering to a deity, then you will need to show this last element present in abortions for the above to be true, not just presume it as an explanation.
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Post by novastar6 on Jun 29, 2023 22:50:24 GMT
It does against child sacrifice though, and the more depraved details come out about the whole industry, child sacrifice becomes the only logical explanation for some of the stuff that goes on there.
If a sacrifice is defined as an act of slaughtering an animal or person or surrendering a possession as an offering to a deity, then you will need to show this last element present in abortions for the above to be true, not just presume it as an explanation.
In the meantime there's the fact the Bible says don't murder, and it's damn hard to argue a million babies a year have to be killed in the womb in self defense of the mother's actual life, not her feelings, not some dream about college or a career, not her relationship status, not her party lifestyle, etc.
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Jun 30, 2023 10:41:26 GMT
If a sacrifice is defined as an act of slaughtering an animal or person or surrendering a possession as an offering to a deity, then you will need to show this last element present in abortions for the above to be true, not just presume it as an explanation.
In the meantime there's the fact the Bible says don't murder, and it's damn hard to argue a million babies a year have to be killed in the womb in self defense of the mother's actual life, not her feelings, not some dream about college or a career, not her relationship status, not her party lifestyle, etc.
I have no doubt that you have your reasons for so confidently intepretating people's motives. I can only repeat that the Bible contains umpteen examples of supposed justified, or legal killings, and so where and when abortion is legal, it is perfectly in line with the examples of scripture (which Timothy tells us, is all suitable for instruction 2 Timothy 3:16-17 )
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Post by novastar6 on Jul 9, 2023 14:33:48 GMT
Just realized last night it's been about a year since Roe V. Wade was overturned, and we were told a year ago how this was the WORST thing to happen to women and it strips them of their rights and all the women who didn't want to be pregnant would just kill themselves getting back alley jobs or DIY jobs with coat hangers or even throwing themselves down the stairs, making the argument through very strong implications that women aren't rational beings and they don't possess critical thinking skills and they're not responsible for their actions and they have absolutely no sense of self preservation, it's just an automatic default if women have ANY restrictions placed on abortion they will literally opt to kill themselves instead of being pregnant or even taking preemptive measures to prevent pregnancy...and yet the news has been strangely silent about how many thousands of women have in fact died that way over the past year in this country. Could that be because...it didn't happen? And if it didn't, why didn't it? Air pollution is now the 5th leading cause of death, and obesity was already #3, but it's also gone up 100,000 more victims per year than when it was first made the 3rd leading cause of death...you don't see RvW's overturn anywhere in that top 10 list. Why is that?
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Abortion
Jul 9, 2023 15:50:43 GMT
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Post by captainbryce on Jul 9, 2023 15:50:43 GMT
Just realized last night it's been about a year since Roe V. Wade was overturned, and we were told a year ago how this was the WORST thing to happen to women and it strips them of their rights and all the women who didn't want to be pregnant would just kill themselves getting back alley jobs or DIY jobs with coat hangers or even throwing themselves down the stairs, making the argument through very strong implications that women aren't rational beings and they don't possess critical thinking skills and they're not responsible for their actions and they have absolutely no sense of self preservation, it's just an automatic default if women have ANY restrictions placed on abortion they will literally opt to kill themselves instead of being pregnant or even taking preemptive measures to prevent pregnancy...and yet the news has been strangely silent about how many thousands of women have in fact died that way over the past year in this country. Could that be because...it didn't happen? And if it didn't, why didn't it? Air pollution is now the 5th leading cause of death, and obesity was already #3, but it's also gone up 100,000 more victims per year than when it was first made the 3rd leading cause of death...you don't see RvW's overturn anywhere in that top 10 list. Why is that? Do you understand how punctuation and grammar works? Lesson one, THIS [.] is called a period. 😟
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Jul 9, 2023 22:38:39 GMT
very strong implications that women aren't rational beings and they don't possess critical thinking skills and they're not responsible for their actions Ironically, by taking away the freedom of choice for many women, the control of their own bodies, then this is the implication. In a Center survey conducted after the Supreme Court’s June 2022 decision to end the constitutional right to abortion, 62% of U.S. adults said the practice should be legal in all or most cases. (Currently 75% on the survey for this thread).
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Post by novastar6 on Jul 9, 2023 22:57:11 GMT
very strong implications that women aren't rational beings and they don't possess critical thinking skills and they're not responsible for their actions Ironically, by taking away the freedom of choice for many women, the control of their own bodies, then this is the implication. In a Center survey conducted after the Supreme Court’s June 2022 decision to end the constitutional right to abortion, 62% of U.S. adults said the practice should be legal in all or most cases. (Currently 75% on the survey for this thread).
No, the implication comes from 'if women can't get a legal abortion, they'll just kill themselves, because being pregnant is worse than being dead, and even if it isn't, they can't think that far ahead, they don't know life is longer than 9 months'. That old stereotype about women can't do math.
Now when men are forced into fatherhood, they're on the hook for 18 years and the better part of $200,000 in child support, and even if they don't make enough to pay their child support AND still live, a judge will say 'too bad, get two jobs'. How many men kill themselves or threaten to kill themselves so they don't have to own up to the responsibilities for their sexual actions? You EVER hear men threatening 'I'll kill myself if you make me raise my kid/pay for my kid'? They sure don't march around the country chanting it, do they?
Condoms and birth control have a 98-99% efficiency rate, there are roughly 1 million abortions in America every year, over 50% of unwanted pregnancies didn't bother using any contraceptives. So yes, the arguments for abortion at all costs still come back to 'well women are just stupid little kids, you CAN'T expect them to be responsible, it's asking too much, and it's NOT like they have jobs and make their own money and can buy condoms or birth control, ONLY men should ever be held responsible for anything they do, women are just too helpless and fragile to be adults'. Why do you think so many 13-14 year olds are put on hormonal birth control before they even have sex? Because 'well we CAN'T trust them to be responsible and they're GOING to have sex any day now because that's JUST what teenagers do, we can't have any other expectations for them like self respect or standards, and this way they can STILL get HIV, syphilis, gonorrhea, AIDS, but hey at least they won't be pregnant, that's all that matters...it's NOT like we could've talked to them about sex a hundred times BEFORE they get the 'you're so stupid, I don't have to listen to you' teen brain and would actually listen to us'.
People can knock abstinence and teaching kids about it all they want, for women who are allergic to birth control, yeah, they found out the hard way, that's the ONLY thing that's 100% effective, and they do it, because they actually know how to prevent a pregnancy instead of just running out and getting pregnant just so they can get it aborted later. Imagine that.
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Jul 9, 2023 23:15:45 GMT
Ironically, by taking away the freedom of choice for many women, the control of their own bodies, then this is the implication. In a Center survey conducted after the Supreme Court’s June 2022 decision to end the constitutional right to abortion, 62% of U.S. adults said the practice should be legal in all or most cases. (Currently 75% on the survey for this thread). No, the implication comes from 'if women can't get a legal abortion, they'll just kill themselves, because being pregnant is worse than being dead, and even if it isn't, they can't think that far ahead, they don't know life is longer than 9 months'. That old stereotype about women can't do math. What I said still stands - though I enjoy a bracing dose of hyperbole as much anyone.
Which is exactly what will happen with the change in the law.
Fascinating I am sure; but this does not effect a woman's right to choose and have control over her own body.
More irony: the arguments for abortion are not as misogynistic as you perhaps would like. The terms in which you describe things tell the reader more about you than they do about the choice lobby. .. as does the patronising of young people.
Imagine a country where women have informed choice what they do with their own bodies and control their own healthcare, one without those misunderstanding or misrepresenting the lives and morals of others to justify the wholesale removal of personal freedoms. America is not a theocracy, so the views of the religious ought not to carry any special weight. One notes however a lack of substantiation for anything you said and so the sense of your minority views is of fake news. But, hey, I enjoyed the rant.
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Post by novastar6 on Jul 9, 2023 23:34:04 GMT
Imagine a country where women have informed choice what they do with their own bodies and control their own healthcare
Talk about fairy tales if you think that's what happens with girls and women.
Teen girls are prescribed birth control before anybody even ASKS for it. That's informed choice? They're told they NEED it and nothing else will help them, and are NOT told all the side effects short and long term that can plague them like hormonal imbalance, which to men doesn't sound too serious, maybe 'oooh they have a few mood swings, which women do all the time anyway', to women it feels like being possessed, suicidal, depressed, their families don't even recognize them, or the fertility complications that will arise from screwing with their body's natural hormone levels for 10-20 years, or losing their hair, gaining/losing 30-50 pounds, you think that doesn't happen? Ask.
Abortion is informed choice? Like the thousands of babies Kermit Gosnell falsified records on being second trimester when they were 7-8 months along? And we're going to believe he's the ONLY one who ever did that? Informed like saying women SHOULDN'T hear the heartbeat of their baby, know its sex, OR how far along it is, before aborting it? Why? Because those FACTS might somehow change their minds? Isn't part of having CHOICES, and being INFORMED, that you are ALLOWED to change your mind?
Oh, and all the teen girls dragged in by parents, grandmothers, or boyfriends who don't want the baby, and they paid for it, so even though she's begging to keep it, oh hell no, the procedure is being done, that's their choice? 'Oh that never happens, the pro-abortion media would TELL us if it did', right? Like it reported so openly and honestly about the entire Kermit Gosnell abortion house of horrors murder trial? Or how about all the women who are coerced well the man doesn't want this baby and she'd do ANYTHING to keep him or 'oh I don't know how I'll juggle a baby AND a job'? And you think they're not going to be haunted by that decision for the rest of their lives? As in on a DAILY basis? Oh yeah 'I know ONE woman who said abortion was the best thing that happened to her, so the MILLIONS of women who get them ALL feel the same way, and only a minuscule percent EVER regret it'. Again, ask. People are quick to say NOT a lot of women regret their abortions, yet they offer NO numbers to back that up, 'Don't think about it, don't question it, just take it at its word'. Informed choices?
And how about the fact women's CHOICES are not respected when they say they want to be sterilized? Why are doctors so quick to remove girls' breasts and uteri to make them into boys, a permanent and irreversible procedure, because they just KNOW this is what they are and what they want, but a 20-30 year old woman wants her tubes tied, cut and burned, and the doctors drag their feet 'you're young, you could change your mind later, you should think about it more', so it's NOT her choice when it's sterilization over abortion, or transitioning?
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sailor
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Post by sailor on Jul 10, 2023 16:03:47 GMT
There is nothing in the Constitution about abortion nor do I believe the Constitution gives Congress the right to legislate abortion. Therefore, it should be up to each state and/or municipality as to whether to allow abortions. The driving reason for having children is to pass on one’s genes to another generation. If I can’t live forever, perhaps my genes will. Here’s a case in point: Amy and Bill are upper middle-class Christians in their thirties who go to church every Sunday. They finally decide to have children. The doctor tells Amy that her fetus has major problems and will probably require round-the-clock care and will probably die within ten years. By the time Fetus dies, child-bearing years will be history. Amy & Bill’s genes would die with them. However, if Amy has an abortion, the next pregnancy has a 99% chance of being normal. What would YOU do? Here’s a question for all you theists out there: Why does Yahweh/God/Jehovah/Lord allow defective births in the first place? Silly question... We are in a fallen world and all of will have our bodies die. Some of show up with issues and others develop them over time... We often focus on the 0-120 years (normally around 80 in the western world anyway) in this body like it is all there is... Eternity dwarfs this time so much that whatever your physical or mental or social disadvantage might seem like... You need only rely on the Lord and walk with Him being sanctified in this life as you are built up for the eternal state of your glorified and resurrected body. Focus on eternity and live for Jesus... Regardless f what cross you have to bear...
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Jul 10, 2023 19:10:41 GMT
A good question is why are pro-abortion people so angry? Would you not be angry if your rights were taken away after decades? However, given the tone of your last few posts (notably the one punctuation free) one can appreciate the irony here. You are right that one choice is not a choice. But that's what many now have. You know that YouTube is not a reputable news source, right? Indeed. Something very true of those supporting intelligent design, or idea of a supernatural Cause for instance. As already noted you are attributing to people things without substantiation. As for demonizing, once again, just check back on your previous three posts.
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Jul 10, 2023 19:19:51 GMT
Imagine a country where women have informed choice what they do with their own bodies and control their own healthcare
Talk about fairy tales if you think that's what happens with girls and women.
Teen girls are prescribed birth control before anybody even ASKS for it. That's informed choice? They're told they NEED it and nothing else will help them, and are NOT told all the side effects short and long term that can plague them like hormonal imbalance, which to men doesn't sound too serious, maybe 'oooh they have a few mood swings, which women do all the time anyway', to women it feels like being possessed, suicidal, depressed, their families don't even recognize them, or the fertility complications that will arise from screwing with their body's natural hormone levels for 10-20 years, or losing their hair, gaining/losing 30-50 pounds, you think that doesn't happen? Ask.
Abortion is informed choice? Like the thousands of babies Kermit Gosnell falsified records on being second trimester when they were 7-8 months along? And we're going to believe he's the ONLY one who ever did that? Informed like saying women SHOULDN'T hear the heartbeat of their baby, know its sex, OR how far along it is, before aborting it? Why? Because those FACTS might somehow change their minds? Isn't part of having CHOICES, and being INFORMED, that you are ALLOWED to change your mind?
Oh, and all the teen girls dragged in by parents, grandmothers, or boyfriends who don't want the baby, and they paid for it, so even though she's begging to keep it, oh hell no, the procedure is being done, that's their choice? 'Oh that never happens, the pro-abortion media would TELL us if it did', right? Like it reported so openly and honestly about the entire Kermit Gosnell abortion house of horrors murder trial? Or how about all the women who are coerced well the man doesn't want this baby and she'd do ANYTHING to keep him or 'oh I don't know how I'll juggle a baby AND a job'? And you think they're not going to be haunted by that decision for the rest of their lives? As in on a DAILY basis? Oh yeah 'I know ONE woman who said abortion was the best thing that happened to her, so the MILLIONS of women who get them ALL feel the same way, and only a minuscule percent EVER regret it'. Again, ask. People are quick to say NOT a lot of women regret their abortions, yet they offer NO numbers to back that up, 'Don't think about it, don't question it, just take it at its word'. Informed choices?
And how about the fact women's CHOICES are not respected when they say they want to be sterilized? Why are doctors so quick to remove girls' breasts and uteri to make them into boys, a permanent and irreversible procedure, because they just KNOW this is what they are and what they want, but a 20-30 year old woman wants her tubes tied, cut and burned, and the doctors drag their feet 'you're young, you could change your mind later, you should think about it more', so it's NOT her choice when it's sterilization over abortion, or transitioning?
Anecdotal evidence, strawmen, irrelevance, selective reporting, unsubstantiated opinions and fake news, all rolled in one handy package. The removal of women's choice over their healthcare and control of their reproductive rights at the behest of the religious right is not supported by the majority and marks a step backwards, making some of America something of an outlier in the democratic West.
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Post by novastar6 on Jul 10, 2023 22:24:34 GMT
Talk about fairy tales if you think that's what happens with girls and women.
Teen girls are prescribed birth control before anybody even ASKS for it. That's informed choice? They're told they NEED it and nothing else will help them, and are NOT told all the side effects short and long term that can plague them like hormonal imbalance, which to men doesn't sound too serious, maybe 'oooh they have a few mood swings, which women do all the time anyway', to women it feels like being possessed, suicidal, depressed, their families don't even recognize them, or the fertility complications that will arise from screwing with their body's natural hormone levels for 10-20 years, or losing their hair, gaining/losing 30-50 pounds, you think that doesn't happen? Ask.
Abortion is informed choice? Like the thousands of babies Kermit Gosnell falsified records on being second trimester when they were 7-8 months along? And we're going to believe he's the ONLY one who ever did that? Informed like saying women SHOULDN'T hear the heartbeat of their baby, know its sex, OR how far along it is, before aborting it? Why? Because those FACTS might somehow change their minds? Isn't part of having CHOICES, and being INFORMED, that you are ALLOWED to change your mind?
Oh, and all the teen girls dragged in by parents, grandmothers, or boyfriends who don't want the baby, and they paid for it, so even though she's begging to keep it, oh hell no, the procedure is being done, that's their choice? 'Oh that never happens, the pro-abortion media would TELL us if it did', right? Like it reported so openly and honestly about the entire Kermit Gosnell abortion house of horrors murder trial? Or how about all the women who are coerced well the man doesn't want this baby and she'd do ANYTHING to keep him or 'oh I don't know how I'll juggle a baby AND a job'? And you think they're not going to be haunted by that decision for the rest of their lives? As in on a DAILY basis? Oh yeah 'I know ONE woman who said abortion was the best thing that happened to her, so the MILLIONS of women who get them ALL feel the same way, and only a minuscule percent EVER regret it'. Again, ask. People are quick to say NOT a lot of women regret their abortions, yet they offer NO numbers to back that up, 'Don't think about it, don't question it, just take it at its word'. Informed choices?
And how about the fact women's CHOICES are not respected when they say they want to be sterilized? Why are doctors so quick to remove girls' breasts and uteri to make them into boys, a permanent and irreversible procedure, because they just KNOW this is what they are and what they want, but a 20-30 year old woman wants her tubes tied, cut and burned, and the doctors drag their feet 'you're young, you could change your mind later, you should think about it more', so it's NOT her choice when it's sterilization over abortion, or transitioning?
Anecdotal evidence, strawmen, irrelevance, selective reporting, unsubstantiated opinions and fake news, all rolled in one handy package. The removal of women's choice over their healthcare and control of their reproductive rights at the behest of the religious right is not supported by the majority and marks a step backwards, making some of America something of an outlier in the democratic West.
Funny how states having individual rights over abortion and it's not one size fits all is somehow 'taking away women's choice over their healthcare and control of their reproductive rights'. That's like saying the Library of Congress is banning books since it refuses to have every single book that was ever printed on its shelves.
And healthcare? Yeah, here's a thought, you know how if you don't want to get a DUI you don't drink and drive?, if you don't want STDs, don't have unprotected sex, if you want to make your chances of unwanted pregnancy closer to 0 instead of 100, don't have unprotected sex. Wow, so hard to figure out, isn't it?
It's funny how pro-aborts ALWAYS go 'blind deaf and dumb' to the fact STDs exist and women can just as easily get them from the same activities they get those unwanted babies from, and you can't just abort them, can you? Especially if you're poor and have to pay thousands of dollars for antiretrovirals that your insurance won't cover. What's the quick fix then? But hey, I guess some people just need to eat 5,000 pizzas so they can then cry 'WAAAAAAAAAHHHH, it's not MY fault I'm fat, it JUST happened and I had NO control over it!'
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Jul 10, 2023 22:29:45 GMT
Anecdotal evidence, strawmen, irrelevance, selective reporting, unsubstantiated opinions and fake news, all rolled in one handy package. The removal of women's choice over their healthcare and control of their reproductive rights at the behest of the religious right is not supported by the majority and marks a step backwards, making some of America something of an outlier in the democratic West. Funny how states having individual rights over abortion and it's not one size fits all is somehow 'taking away women's choice over their healthcare and control of their reproductive rights'. That's like saying the Library of Congress is banning books since it refuses to have every single book that was ever printed on its shelves. Which is a false analogy; the choice over the control of one's body and reproduction is not like the extent of a lending library where choices are vast.
So having a baby is punishment now? Got it.
Incidentally the same logic can also be found in "Don't want to get shot? Don't make guns easily available to all"
Funny how you continue on with this attack mode when the plain fact is that that the reproductive rights of millions of women have been removed at the behest of a religious conservative movement in a move that is widely unpopular and which will inevitably lead to a growth in illegal and often dangerous personal medicine.
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Post by novastar6 on Jul 11, 2023 1:32:46 GMT
Funny how states having individual rights over abortion and it's not one size fits all is somehow 'taking away women's choice over their healthcare and control of their reproductive rights'. That's like saying the Library of Congress is banning books since it refuses to have every single book that was ever printed on its shelves. Which is a false analogy; the choice over the control of one's body and reproduction is not like the extent of a lending library where choices are vast. So having a baby is punishment now? Got it.
Incidentally the same logic can also be found in "Don't want to get shot? Don't make guns easily available to all" Funny how you continue on with this attack mode when the plain fact is that that the reproductive rights of millions of women have been removed at the behest of a religious conservative movement in a move that is widely unpopular and which will inevitably lead to a growth in illegal and often dangerous personal medicine.
Having a baby is the naturally foreseeable outcome of having unprotected sex. Like you lay in the sun for 3 hours with no shade or sun block, no, that 2nd degree burn that makes all your skin blister, ooze and fall off is not a punishment for your actions, just the naturally foreseeable outcome and precisely why you're supposed to take preventative measures. The fact it FEELS like a punishment is irrelevant.
And again, if millions of women have had their reproductive rights removed, WHERE are all the women who we were basically *threatened* would kill themselves if they got pregnant and couldn't get an abortion?
Funny how you go on about anecdotes, strawmen and fake news, and yet you bring no facts to the table, just hysterical hyperbole.
Maybe you want to tell these women they're fake news, a strawman.
Funny we call abortion 'women's choice' and yet many say they felt they HAD no choice. We call it 'women's health' but you ever hear a woman say 'I regret removing a cancerous tumor, I regret NOT having an intestinal parasite anymore, I regret not having bunions anymore'?
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Post by novastar6 on Jul 11, 2023 4:33:27 GMT
Catchy slogans like 'my body my choice' 'woman's choice', are not grounded in reality. 'Oh you can make an informed choice on this but DON'T DO ANY RESEARCH, don't find out what it's really like, what other people have gone through, the side effects, the risks, the after-effects, just believe it's a magic wand fixing all your problems, and DON'T consider the possibility you could regret this choice every day for the next 50 years, that's not real, it doesn't happen, and if it does, too bad, MAKING the choice was all that mattered'.
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Post by novastar6 on Jul 11, 2023 5:03:32 GMT
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