Tim05
Sophomore
@tim05
Posts: 216
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Post by Tim05 on Jan 29, 2024 15:21:48 GMT
A friend posed this question to me yesterday, and I think it's certainly possible but very unlikely.
It's weird that in a sport where you never had a definitive GOAT before Brady, and could have made an argument for any number of 5 or 6 guys, we might be seeing 2 in a row that dominate the competition like no one else has.
No doubt Mahomes had a down year this year, but looking at their stats in the first 7 years of their careers (ignoring Brady's rookie season), they're very comparable, with slight edges to Mahomes in most major categories. I'll say I thought the Chiefs would lose early in the playoffs this year, and here we are again, even with Mahomes and the Chiefs having a down year. I feel like there were similar sentiments in a lot of Brady's runs, where you felt like ok, this is going to be a year that the difficulty to win consistently in football shows, and you get to the end of the year and it's Brady again.
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Post by sdm3 on Jan 29, 2024 15:29:03 GMT
Can he? Absolutely - especially when you remember that Brady went 10 years between rings #3 and #4. Will he? It's a tough ask for any team to be so dominant for so long.
Aside from ring count, if you're asking whether he could eventually be considered as great or greater than Brady, certainly he could. We're getting way ahead of ourselves, obviously, but I'd honestly entertain the argument that Mahomes is #1 even if he finishes with fewer than 7 rings. If he wins, say, 5... I don't know. He'd have a compelling case. He's already top-5 all-time at this point. He can only add to his legacy from here on out.
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Jan 29, 2024 15:57:12 GMT
sdm said it all. If he stays healthy, he could definitely do it.
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Post by twothousandonemark on Jan 29, 2024 16:09:56 GMT
Yep, just like Brady, when he turns 33 & thinks his body is failing him, he'll realize the wisdom of all these big moments will slow the game down for him to make it easy mode. Such is life.
It'll be fascinating once Kelce retires, if they go chasing a new Kelce clone to draft, or reimagine their schemes like the Patriots did. It'll also be a thing if/when Andy Reid walks away. He's 65 right now. I think 70 is reasonable if his team keeps buying in & winning.
While nowhere do or die this time, the path to 2-2 SB record with a loss is quite different than 3-1 & aiming for the magical 4th. 4 is the SB wins number to define legendary thus far imo. GOAT status? I think 5 rings is enough titles to qualify, the rest he'll have to keep up a yearly MVP calibre prolific career. His physical traits as a QB are undeniable, & historic.
As for the 49ers - this is yet another chance to break into the 6 SB title club with the Patriots & Steelers... or else be on a 3 SB losing streak.
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Post by TheGoodMan19 on Jan 29, 2024 16:16:43 GMT
I'm getting to hate him as much as Brady
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Post by sdm3 on Jan 30, 2024 8:06:53 GMT
One behind Brady in AFC franchises defeated in the playoffs. In only 6 seasons? Pretty nutty considering the length of Brady's AFC tenure.
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Jan 30, 2024 13:42:18 GMT
One behind Brady in AFC franchises defeated in the playoffs. In only 6 seasons? Pretty nutty considering the length of Brady's AFC tenure. Does any QB have control over who they played in the playoffs? What a goofy stat. If anything, it suggests Mahomes is playing in a weaker conference, considering four guys on that list had most of their careers overlap.
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Post by sdm3 on Jan 30, 2024 14:08:10 GMT
One behind Brady in AFC franchises defeated in the playoffs. In only 6 seasons? Pretty nutty considering the length of Brady's AFC tenure. Does any QB have control over who they played in the playoffs? What a goofy stat. If anything, it suggests Mahomes is playing in a weaker conference, considering four guys on that list had most of their careers overlap. They don't have control over who they play, but they certainly have some control over whether they beat them and advance to the next opponent. I think that's all the stat is, just another way of highlighting Mahomes' insane amount of winning in a short timeframe - not trying to downplay Brady's accomplishments. Obviously Brady dominated the conference for a long time - he even beat the Chiefs as a Patriot and a Buccaneer (which this list doesn't seem to account for). What do you mean by "weaker conference?" Brady was in the AFC for nearly 20 years through multiple eras with lots of teams rising and falling (usually falling to the Patriots) - what about that time period makes it comparatively "stronger" than the 6 years Mahomes has been starting in the league? The number of wins the other QBs have? Again, you're comparing a 20-year period to a 6-year period; Mahomes' peers haven't had a chance to rack up wins (he keeps beating them).
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Jan 30, 2024 14:34:43 GMT
Does any QB have control over who they played in the playoffs? What a goofy stat. If anything, it suggests Mahomes is playing in a weaker conference, considering four guys on that list had most of their careers overlap. They don't have control over who they play, but they certainly have some control over whether they beat them and advance to the next opponent. I think that's all the stat is, just another way of highlighting Mahomes' insane amount of winning in a short timeframe - not trying to downplay Brady's accomplishments. Obviously Brady dominated the conference for a long time - he even beat the Chiefs as a Patriot and a Buccaneer (which this list doesn't seem to account for). I didn't mean it as a shot at Mahomes either, I just think it's one of those 'nextgen' stats that doesn't really say anything. He's won a bunch of playoff games and gone to four Super Bowls already, which is crazy. Which franchises provided early round fodder doesn't really prove anything beyond the wins themselves. It's one of those 'stats' they come up with to somehow legitimize the current player in the minds of fans by comparing him to an all-time great, and drive conversation on those talk shows. I'll go ahead and up the ante on my previous comments in this thread and say not only is it possible, it's highly likely Mahomes surpasses Brady at this rate. But if I was formulating a list to compare the two once their playing days are over, I don't know how many hours it would take me to come up with "number of AFC franchises defeated in the playoffs" as a measuring stick.
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Post by sdm3 on Jan 30, 2024 14:37:21 GMT
They don't have control over who they play, but they certainly have some control over whether they beat them and advance to the next opponent. I think that's all the stat is, just another way of highlighting Mahomes' insane amount of winning in a short timeframe - not trying to downplay Brady's accomplishments. Obviously Brady dominated the conference for a long time - he even beat the Chiefs as a Patriot and a Buccaneer (which this list doesn't seem to account for). But if I was formulating a list to compare the two once their playing days are over, I don't know how many hours it would take me to come up with "number of AFC franchises defeated in the playoffs" as a measuring stick. It's not a measuring stick, it's just a factoid - eh, it mildly intrigued me at least. A measuring stick would be to compare Brady's first six years to Mahomes' six years. Hell of a lot of winning between them, that's for sure.
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Post by FrankSobotka1514 on Jan 30, 2024 14:53:11 GMT
How many years do you think Reid has left as a head coach? Hel’ll be 66 in March. 10 years at the most if his cholesterol level doesn’t kill him first. I think one advantage Brady had was that he had the same head coach for his entire Patriot career. Whatever side of the Belichick or Brady argument you’re on that continuity is a factor. Mahomes may not have the same level of success post-Reid because the Chiefs as a whole may not.
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Jan 30, 2024 15:08:25 GMT
How many years do you think Reid has left as a head coach? Hel’ll be 66 in March. 10 years at the most if his cholesterol level doesn’t kill him first. I think one advantage Brady had was that he had the same head coach for his entire Patriot career. Whatever side of the Belichick or Brady argument you’re on that continuity is a factor. Mahomes may not have the same level of success post-Reid because the Chiefs as a whole may not. Brady was the reason for the continuity. If Mahomes keeps winning, Reid can coach until he dies of a heart attack on the sidelines.
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Post by sdm3 on Jan 30, 2024 15:16:32 GMT
Does anyone think Mahomes is becoming as hated as Brady? Obviously there's been no Spygate/Deflategate scandal for Mahomes (yet) but I noticed a major shift in public perception right after his second SB win. People really seemed to hate that he appealed for the crucial holding call - as if any other QB wouldn't do the same thing.
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Post by mtbg on Jan 30, 2024 15:17:37 GMT
He has clearly been better over both's 1st 6 seasons. They both had 2 rings after that time but Mahomes also has 2 MVPs over that time where Brady had zero. Brady wasn't has good as Mahomes early in his career. He played well, the team ran a lot and played good defense. His numbers weren't great. They were consistent and he came up big when needed. He got better and better as he went along and was clearly a better player during that 10 year stretch when they didn't win 1 than he was his 1st few years when they won. That's why it is hard when comparing when people focus so much on rings. I realize they play to win it all but it's such a team sport and there is so much that 1 player cannot control as an individual with regards to wins in a team sport.
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Post by sdm3 on Jan 30, 2024 15:20:23 GMT
He has clearly been better over both's 1st 6 seasons. They both had 2 rings after that time but Mahomes also has 2 MVPs over that time where Brady had zero. Brady wasn't has good as Mahomes early in his career. He played well, the team ran a lot and played good defense. His numbers weren't great. They were consistent and he came up big when needed. He got better and better as he went along and was clearly a better player during that 10 year stretch when they didn't win 1 than he was his 1st few years when they won. That's why it is hard when comparing when people focus so much on rings. I realize they play to win it all but it's such a team sport and there is so much that 1 player cannot control as an individual with regards to wins in a team sport. Ahem, I'll point out that Brady won 3 rings in his first 6 seasons. But I'd agree that Mahomes had a more impressive start to his career on an individual standpoint. Brady's greatness was cemented in his extraordinary longevity - arguably improving his play long past the point where lesser players would begin to decline. That's the test Mahomes will have to pass.
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Post by masterofallgoons on Jan 30, 2024 16:05:56 GMT
Does anyone think Mahomes is becoming as hated as Brady? Obviously there's been no Spygate/Deflategate scandal for Mahomes (yet) but I noticed a major shift in public perception right after his second SB win. People really seemed to hate that he appealed for the crucial holding call - as if any other QB wouldn't do the same thing. To a much lesser degree. He seems to be getting on people's nerves. Some of that has to do with doing so many commercials, some of that has to do with the Netflix Quarterback show, and yeah some of that has to do with whining about not getting a call when your team gets all the calls. That last part is true of every big star in every sport. Also, his voice is kind of annoying. And he's the face of the Taylor Swift team.
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Post by mtbg on Jan 30, 2024 16:29:58 GMT
He has clearly been better over both's 1st 6 seasons. They both had 2 rings after that time but Mahomes also has 2 MVPs over that time where Brady had zero. Brady wasn't has good as Mahomes early in his career. He played well, the team ran a lot and played good defense. His numbers weren't great. They were consistent and he came up big when needed. He got better and better as he went along and was clearly a better player during that 10 year stretch when they didn't win 1 than he was his 1st few years when they won. That's why it is hard when comparing when people focus so much on rings. I realize they play to win it all but it's such a team sport and there is so much that 1 player cannot control as an individual with regards to wins in a team sport. Ahem, I'll point out that Brady won 3 rings in his first 6 seasons. But I'd agree that Mahomes had a more impressive start to his career on an individual standpoint. Brady's greatness was cemented in his extraordinary longevity - arguably improving his play long past the point where lesser players would begin to decline. That's the test Mahomes will have to pass. You are correct. My bad. Though if Mahomes wins this year, that'll be 3 in his 1st 6 years as a starter. Tied in rings but Mahomes has the MVPs. Yes, Brady's longevity and the fact that he just kept getting better and better is by far the most impressive part of his career.
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Jan 30, 2024 17:41:40 GMT
He has clearly been better over both's 1st 6 seasons. They both had 2 rings after that time but Mahomes also has 2 MVPs over that time where Brady had zero. Brady wasn't has good as Mahomes early in his career. He played well, the team ran a lot and played good defense. His numbers weren't great. They were consistent and he came up big when needed. He got better and better as he went along and was clearly a better player during that 10 year stretch when they didn't win 1 than he was his 1st few years when they won. That's why it is hard when comparing when people focus so much on rings. I realize they play to win it all but it's such a team sport and there is so much that 1 player cannot control as an individual with regards to wins in a team sport. Ahem, I'll point out that Brady won 3 rings in his first 6 seasons. But I'd agree that Mahomes had a more impressive start to his career on an individual standpoint. Brady's greatness was cemented in his extraordinary longevity - arguably improving his play long past the point where lesser players would begin to decline. That's the test Mahomes will have to pass. I don't know. Brady: - Went 11-3 in his first season as a starter and won the Super Bowl - Won back to back titles in his third and fourth seasons, going 14-2 each time, including a 21 game winning streak - Went 10-0 in his first ten playoff starts - Won his first three Super Bowl appearances - 2x Super Bowl MVP (Same as Mahomes) The stats probably favor Mahomes, considering the system he plays in. I won't argue that one.
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Post by sdm3 on Jan 30, 2024 18:26:49 GMT
Ahem, I'll point out that Brady won 3 rings in his first 6 seasons. But I'd agree that Mahomes had a more impressive start to his career on an individual standpoint. Brady's greatness was cemented in his extraordinary longevity - arguably improving his play long past the point where lesser players would begin to decline. That's the test Mahomes will have to pass. I don't know. Brady: - Went 11-3 in his first season as a starter and won the Super Bowl - Won back to back titles in his third and fourth seasons, going 14-2 each time, including a 21 game winning streak - Went 10-0 in his first ten playoff starts - Won his first three Super Bowl appearances - 2x Super Bowl MVP (Same as Mahomes) The stats probably favor Mahomes, considering the system he plays in. I won't argue that one. Wins are team accomplishments - they’ve both done a tremendous amount of winning, but that’s not what I’m referring to when talking about individuals. If we’re talking about their play as individuals, we’re essentially talking about stats and awards, yes.
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Jan 30, 2024 18:32:12 GMT
I don't know. Brady: - Went 11-3 in his first season as a starter and won the Super Bowl - Won back to back titles in his third and fourth seasons, going 14-2 each time, including a 21 game winning streak - Went 10-0 in his first ten playoff starts - Won his first three Super Bowl appearances - 2x Super Bowl MVP (Same as Mahomes) The stats probably favor Mahomes, considering the system he plays in. I won't argue that one. Wins are team accomplishments - they’ve both done a tremendous amount of winning, but that’s not what I’m referring to when talking about individuals. If we’re talking about their play as individuals, we’re essentially talking about stats and awards, yes. That's not what the graphic you posted earlier told me. It only listed QBs.
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