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Post by amyghost on Jun 5, 2024 21:58:01 GMT
I'm saddened to see the sort of prejudice that cannot accept the fact that these schools were massively damaging to indigenous cultures, irrespective of what manner of corporeal abuse took place within them. Which was why the parents of these children wanted them to go to these schools. What? So their culture could be destroyed? Once again, because the parents wanted this (or more likely were told that this was what they wanted by individuals whom they took as authority figures whom it was unwise to question) does not mean that these schools were good places. As I've noted before, many a parent--even mainstream, white, affluent parents--have sent their children to institutions they were assured were safe and positive environments, only to have those same institutions turn out to be not good places, sometimes quite horrible ones. And please don't tell me that because it was priests, nuns, RCC missionaries, what-have-you, who were doing the telling, theses schools had to be wonderful places existing only to better their lives. I'm aware (and so are you), and many indigenes could tell you, that this was often not the case.
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Post by jimmyboy on Jun 5, 2024 22:42:40 GMT
Believing that illiterate goat herders have profound knowledge that we should follow simply because someone wrote it down several thousand years ago. I'm not sure I would call that magic. It is if people believe it.
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Post by jimmyboy on Jun 5, 2024 22:46:02 GMT
Aren't you making a dangerous assumption that everyone should follow the guidelines of a church that: - continue to employ and protect people who molest kids - that turned a blind eye to the Holocaust and slave trade - were responsible for the crusades and inquisition - played a part in the residential schools in Canada that participated in the systematic abuse of kids - engaged in homophobic bigotry, despite Jesus not mentioning gays once - preaching very out of date practices. ![](https://s26.postimg.cc/6h2ujupw9/nope.gif) Those priests that committed sex crimes are guilty of those afore-mentioned sins. The Church did not turn a blind eye to the holocaust. Countless priests, nuns etc, were sent to the prison camps & executed for hiding Jewish people. The Residential schools were intended to educate kids, & so far, there is 0 evidence of any murdered children in those graves. Canada Slowly Acknowledging There Never Was A Mass Grave The Narrative Of Residential SchoolsTomson HighwaySo it's ok that they weren't murdered, but only sexually and physically abused, that's ok?
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Post by jimmyboy on Jun 5, 2024 22:50:42 GMT
Which was why the parents of these children wanted them to go to these schools. What? So their culture could be destroyed? Once again, because the parents wanted this (or more likely were told that this was what they wanted by individuals whom they took as authority figures whom it was unwise to question) does not mean that these schools were good places. As I've noted before, many a parent--even mainstream, white, affluent parents--have sent their children to institutions they were assured were safe and positive environments, only to have those same institutions turn out to be not good places, sometimes quite horrible ones. And please don't tell me that because it was priests, nuns, RCC missionaries, what-have-you, who were doing the telling, theses schools had to be wonderful places existing only to better their lives. I'm aware (and so are you), and many indigenes could tell you, that this was often not the case. I think someone believes what they want to believe, despite the facts. She is either naive or purposely ignorant. Despite all the evidence , she refuses to believe any of this happened.
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Post by clusium on Jun 6, 2024 0:13:53 GMT
So it's ok that they weren't murdered, but only sexually and physically abused, that's ok? Never said that it was. Those that abuse children should be imprisoned. Were all of them abused? No, they were not. Read the last link from Tomson Highway.
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Post by clusium on Jun 6, 2024 0:16:03 GMT
What? So their culture could be destroyed? Once again, because the parents wanted this (or more likely were told that this was what they wanted by individuals whom they took as authority figures whom it was unwise to question) does not mean that these schools were good places. As I've noted before, many a parent--even mainstream, white, affluent parents--have sent their children to institutions they were assured were safe and positive environments, only to have those same institutions turn out to be not good places, sometimes quite horrible ones. And please don't tell me that because it was priests, nuns, RCC missionaries, what-have-you, who were doing the telling, theses schools had to be wonderful places existing only to better their lives. I'm aware (and so are you), and many indigenes could tell you, that this was often not the case. I think someone believes what they want to believe, despite the facts. She is either naive or purposely ignorant. Despite all the evidence , she refuses to believe any of this happened. I never denied any of it happened. But, not all of FN children suffered in these institutions. You should read Grave Error, by C. P. Champion & Tom Flanagan.
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Post by clusium on Jun 6, 2024 0:17:21 GMT
Which was why the parents of these children wanted them to go to these schools. What? So their culture could be destroyed? Once again, because the parents wanted this (or more likely were told that this was what they wanted by individuals whom they took as authority figures whom it was unwise to question) does not mean that these schools were good places. As I've noted before, many a parent--even mainstream, white, affluent parents--have sent their children to institutions they were assured were safe and positive environments, only to have those same institutions turn out to be not good places, sometimes quite horrible ones. And please don't tell me that because it was priests, nuns, RCC missionaries, what-have-you, who were doing the telling, theses schools had to be wonderful places existing only to better their lives. I'm aware (and so are you), and many indigenes could tell you, that this was often not the case. Yes, & many Indigenous would tell you that it was not always the case either.
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Post by OffTheBoatPsycho on Jun 6, 2024 1:41:08 GMT
I think someone believes what they want to believe, despite the facts. She is either naive or purposely ignorant. Despite all the evidence , she refuses to believe any of this happened. I never denied any of it happened. But, not all of FN children suffered in these institutions. You should read Grave Error, by C. P. Champion & Tom Flanagan. Some seem not capable of grasping the idea that not all of these schools were bad. Not every child who went to them had the same experiences. Like foster homes or orphanages. Some were terrible, some exceptional and some or most were just ok. I've yet to run into any Catholic that was ever abused at a Catholic school or church. If you read through this article linked below, there were certainly advantages for those who attended. Let's not forget, reservations were awful and filled with abuse. With the disproportionate amount of substance abuse among First nations you can bet all kinds of abuse were and are taking place. Missing indigenous women? That's down to their own men and the women either killed or just getting the heck away from their communities because of the abuse. www.dorchesterreview.ca/blogs/news/terrible-abuses-or-perhaps-not
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Post by OffTheBoatPsycho on Jun 6, 2024 2:17:07 GMT
What? So their culture could be destroyed? Once again, because the parents wanted this (or more likely were told that this was what they wanted by individuals whom they took as authority figures whom it was unwise to question) does not mean that these schools were good places. As I've noted before, many a parent--even mainstream, white, affluent parents--have sent their children to institutions they were assured were safe and positive environments, only to have those same institutions turn out to be not good places, sometimes quite horrible ones. And please don't tell me that because it was priests, nuns, RCC missionaries, what-have-you, who were doing the telling, theses schools had to be wonderful places existing only to better their lives. I'm aware (and so are you), and many indigenes could tell you, that this was often not the case. Yes, & many Indigenous would tell you that it was not always the case either. What has to be kept as well is that we're dealing with people who hate white Canadians and specifically white Christian Canadians. They just see us as people who stole their land and kill their children and bury them in mass graves. I don't think you can trust the accounts of these people. They don't want to see any good in white Christian Canadians and will bad mouth them any chance they get and that would include lying about their experiences with white Christian Canadians. Let's not forget these guys benefit financially from all the government money that has been thrown their way. It benefits them to lie.
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Post by amyghost on Jun 6, 2024 12:52:10 GMT
What? So their culture could be destroyed? Once again, because the parents wanted this (or more likely were told that this was what they wanted by individuals whom they took as authority figures whom it was unwise to question) does not mean that these schools were good places. As I've noted before, many a parent--even mainstream, white, affluent parents--have sent their children to institutions they were assured were safe and positive environments, only to have those same institutions turn out to be not good places, sometimes quite horrible ones. And please don't tell me that because it was priests, nuns, RCC missionaries, what-have-you, who were doing the telling, theses schools had to be wonderful places existing only to better their lives. I'm aware (and so are you), and many indigenes could tell you, that this was often not the case. Yes, & many Indigenous would tell you that it was not always the case either. That doesn't amount to a wholesale apologetica for these schools--which, too often, the RCC and its defenders try to peddle and use to stifle all evidence to the contrary.
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Post by transfuged on Jun 7, 2024 0:41:15 GMT
Wholesale apologica what for? Pat their head ? If an institution is criminal, it must be dismantled after the inquest comes with evidences. If found guilty as charged, dismantled. I can’t see what’s the apology for in case crimes were committed. Willy Brand didn’t made apologies. He kept silent, got on his knees and suffered a few minutes for the crimes of Germany. The pope won’t do this. BTW, some people I’m related too is a teacher in a catholic school. She’s not my favorite person, and her institution is generally thought as the only school we're they take basket cases or posh families offspring. Meaning that’s nunshop education or bust. In a general manner, religious education is something I am not comfortable with, but I grow up under XIX th century law, a law from Napoleon, who is definitely not my teacup, and even outside religious schools we have to study faq religion in school. Not an option. Does it make here a better place ? No. So, generally, I oppose private schooling system. I suspect people do not want native children to get any education at all. And generally speaking, isn’t education a bad thing in the eye of the religious philosophy of North America, and Canada ? Not sure, but I suspect that’s why it is so expensive. Humble and pious people are not supposed to get any. Anyway, is religious school better than none. Yes, grudgingly yes, it is. So, James, how would you provide thes children with school once the crimes would be proven, and the heinous institutions dismantled?
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Post by transfuged on Jun 7, 2024 1:00:54 GMT
Jesus is basically a man who got nailed to a Planck after he said people should be nice to each others, in a time and place ruled by ancient Rome. The message would not be any different told by an African or someone with special private ways. Basically, I can’t see what’s wrong with being nice to each others. Rome as an empire fell. Good thing imho.
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Jun 7, 2024 19:41:59 GMT
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Post by transfuged on Jun 8, 2024 4:15:33 GMT
Yes, I know. But at what cost ? There’s still a Rome. Who needs empires ? Appart from Napoleon and Montesquieu ?
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Jun 8, 2024 11:00:12 GMT
Yes, I know. But at what cost ? There’s still a Rome. Who needs empires ? Appart from Napoleon and Montesquieu ? Well I suppose you can make a case for 'empires' getting things done in a widespread and uniform manner, in ways that individuals or small communities cannot even if (to modern eyes at least) in ways we would not necessarily approve of. Rather like a national govt can do more than your local councils. Of course every empire has risen and fallen, and each was good and bad. It is probably a mistake to associate all empires with just one individual though; the Egyptians and Roman civilizations went through a long succession of rulers and administrations for instance. It is worth remembering that the Bible suggests that the last empire (or 'kingdom' as it would have it) would be the most profound and unifying of all: "The LORD has established His throne in heaven, And His kingdom rules over all. And in the days of these kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom which shall never be destroyed; and the kingdom shall not be left to other people; it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand forever." Daniel 2:44 'The kingdoms of this world have become the kingdoms of our Lord and of His Christ, and He shall reign forever and ever!' Revelation 11
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Post by transfuged on Jun 8, 2024 14:27:37 GMT
FF, Amy, No time now for this, just read it diagonnaly. Later. Seems it doesn't note you oppose people being nice to each other, do you ?
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Jun 8, 2024 19:59:15 GMT
FF, Amy, No time now for this, just read it diagonnaly. Later. Seems it doesn't note you oppose people being nice to each other, do you ? Unless they end up being killed with kindness...
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Post by transfuged on Jun 10, 2024 0:28:49 GMT
FF, Amy, No time now for this, just read it diagonnaly. Later. Seems it doesn't note you oppose people being nice to each other, do you ? Unless they end up being killed with kindness... How do you kill one with kindness, you kiss them to their death ? You purr and cuddle them to their demise ?
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Post by transfuged on Jun 10, 2024 0:38:12 GMT
Er, about the kingdoms...do you care for st Augustine, his divide of the two cities, his kingdom of the Lord subsuming the kingdom of the emperors, fair war ( corrolary), or rather Machiavel, who hated the Christian church because of its global aim ( being an agnostic about these 2, I am).
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Post by Admin on Jun 10, 2024 3:01:25 GMT
Unless they end up being killed with kindness... How do you kill one with kindness, you kiss them to their death ? You purr and cuddle them to their demise ? "If your enemy is hungry, give him food to eat; if he is thirsty, give him water to drink. In doing this, you will heap burning coals on his head." -Proverbs 25:21-22
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