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Post by DC-Fan on Jul 12, 2017 19:40:14 GMT
What homework? Spidey, Bats and supes origins are well known, especially in popculture. Why do we need to see the same old bullshit over and over again. I have no problem with marvel trying something different. I'm very specifically talking about how you need to have a basic knowledge of Spider-Man (you need to take Spider-Man 101) before you can fully appreciate this movie as a NEW fan. If this is your first exposure to Spider-Man, you'll be missing some of the MAJOR essentials regarding the character. Thus, it's not a good "first experience" for a kid who wants to get into the character (as stated in the OP). You miss important stuff. You might be able to enjoy the kiddie jokes and the color explosions, but Homecoming doesn't give you any insights into how Spider-Man came to be (which includes what motivates him). Agreed. Especially since Spider-Man's "origin story" is more than just the part about getting superpowers because he was bitten by a radioactive spider. We can say the Fantastic Four's origin is that they got hit by cosmic rays and that's how they got their superpowers and that's their origin story.
But with Spider-Man, his "origin story" is more than just the part about getting superpowers because he was a bitten by a radioactive spider. Even with his superpowers, he didn't initially choose to become a superhero and instead wanted to use his superpowers to make money. An important and essential part of Spider-Man's "origin story" is Peter letting a thief get away and that thief goes on to kill Uncle Ben, which is what motivates Peter to become a superhero (not because he wants to be Avenger). That's the important and essential part that kids who never saw the first Spider-Man movie miss out on.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2017 19:42:31 GMT
I'm very specifically talking about how you need to have a basic knowledge of Spider-Man (you need to take Spider-Man 101) before you can fully appreciate this movie as a NEW fan. If this is your first exposure to Spider-Man, you'll be missing some of the MAJOR essentials regarding the character. Thus, it's not a good "first experience" for a kid who wants to get into the character (as stated in the OP). You miss important stuff. You might be able to enjoy the kiddie jokes and the color explosions, but Homecoming doesn't give you any insights into how Spider-Man came to be (which includes what motivates him). You are very specifically talking about you being an asshole, that's what you are very specifically talking about. Maybe Dennis an origin movie? How a wet fart turned out to be a piece of s.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2017 19:52:06 GMT
I'm very specifically talking about how you need to have a basic knowledge of Spider-Man (you need to take Spider-Man 101) before you can fully appreciate this movie as a NEW fan. If this is your first exposure to Spider-Man, you'll be missing some of the MAJOR essentials regarding the character. Thus, it's not a good "first experience" for a kid who wants to get into the character (as stated in the OP). You miss important stuff. You might be able to enjoy the kiddie jokes and the color explosions, but Homecoming doesn't give you any insights into how Spider-Man came to be (which includes what motivates him). You are very specifically talking about you being an asshole, that's what you are very specifically talking about. Hahaha.
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Post by ThatGuy on Jul 12, 2017 20:39:18 GMT
Force you to do homework? What homework? Spidey, Bats and supes origins are well known, especially in popculture. Why do we need to see the same old bullshit over and over again. I have no problem with marvel trying something different. Not only that, we've seen it in full twice in the last 15 years. Looking at how Homecoming's Peter is (power-wise), you can see that he would be closer to the Amazing Spider-man version.
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Post by charzhino on Jul 12, 2017 21:13:01 GMT
Looks like someones been watching Doug Walkers (nostalgia critics) review.
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Post by Skaathar on Jul 12, 2017 21:16:14 GMT
Actually the how he got his powers part was addressed in a brief conversation between Peter and Ned. Mentioning it in 1 sentence doesn't explain it to kids who have never seen a Spider-Man movie. More importantly, SMH never touches on the subject of why Spider-Man wants to be a hero.
Kids who have never seen a Spider-Man movie think Spider-Man just wants to be a hero because it's something cool and fun to do and not because he let his Uncle Ben get shot and killed while he was trying to win money wrestling Randy "Macho Man" Savage and not because his Uncle Ben told him that "With great power comes great responsibility".
You mean, like there was no explanation whatsoever of how Batman came to learn to fight like he does in BvS?
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Post by charzhino on Jul 12, 2017 21:26:13 GMT
Im in the middle of this. There are bigger flaws with homecoming but this is a minor one. I can see why a lack of origin (even 1 or 2 lines) could be a problem. Without outright mentioning Uncle Bens death, Peter being Spiderman is reduced to a simple show off. There's nothing driving him other than wanting to look cool and impress Tony Stark - and that's a shallow reason which betrays his true comic origins which is why I laugh at people who constantly tell me its the best adaptation of Spiderman yet. Its nowhere close, not even referencing his IronMan-spidey tech suit.
Batman is driven by the death of his parents and vows to do everything in his power to stop crime in Gotham.
Superman is shown by Jor El how he can unite the human and Kryptonian species and bring hope to Earth.
Those are noble reasons which are inspiring. Spiderman is in the top 3 most iconic comic heros along with the above- and his motivation for being Spiderman in Homecoming is hoping to get a reply from Happy Hogan.
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Post by DC-Fan on Jul 12, 2017 21:34:58 GMT
Im in the middle of this. There are bigger flaws with homecoming but this is a minor one. I can see why a lack of origin (even 1 or 2 lines) could be a problem. Without outright mentioning Uncle Bens death, Peter being Spiderman is reduced to a simple show off. There's nothing driving him other than wanting to look cool and impress Tony Stark - and that's a shallow reason which betrays his true comic origins which is why I laugh at people who constantly tell me its the best adaptation of Spiderman yet. Its nowhere close, not even referencing his IronMan-spidey tech suit. Batman is driven by the death of his parents and vows to do everything in his power to stop crime in Gotham. Superman is shown by Jor El how he can unite the human and Kryptonian species and bring hope to Earth. Those are noble reasons which are inspiring. Spiderman is in the top 3 most iconic comic heros along with the above- and his motivation for being Spiderman in Homecoming is hoping to get a reply from Happy Hogan. Excellent post! Agreed 100%! Without Uncle Ben, this adaptation of Spider-Man is saying that he wants to be a hero not because he let a thief get away who then killed his Uncle Ben but because he just wants to join the Avengers because he thinks that would be cool and fun. That's the worst adaptation of Spider-Man ever.
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Post by Atom(ica) Discord on Jul 12, 2017 22:11:57 GMT
Im in the middle of this. There are bigger flaws with homecoming but this is a minor one. I can see why a lack of origin (even 1 or 2 lines) could be a problem. Without outright mentioning Uncle Bens death, Peter being Spiderman is reduced to a simple show off. There's nothing driving him other than wanting to look cool and impress Tony Stark - and that's a shallow reason which betrays his true comic origins which is why I laugh at people who constantly tell me its the best adaptation of Spiderman yet. Its nowhere close, not even referencing his IronMan-spidey tech suit. Batman is driven by the death of his parents and vows to do everything in his power to stop crime in Gotham. Superman is shown by Jor El how he can unite the human and Kryptonian species and bring hope to Earth. Those are noble reasons which are inspiring. Spiderman is in the top 3 most iconic comic heros along with the above- and his motivation for being Spiderman in Homecoming is hoping to get a reply from Happy Hogan. Excellent post! Agreed 100%! Without Uncle Ben, this adaptation of Spider-Man is saying that he wants to be a hero not because he let a thief get away who then killed his Uncle Ben but because he just wants to join the Avengers because he thinks that would be cool and fun. That's the worst adaptation of Spider-Man ever. Take heart, my love. Let me teach you how to hate. It's not unreasonable to think that a fifteen year old super-hero would want to join a group of veteran, adult super-heroes who are well known for their high-profile adventuring. It's superficial but it's not posturing or showing off. It's a well documented aspect of human development that occurs during teen years. Peter wants to be acceptanced by someone who isn't his Aunt and will openly recognize his efforts as a super-hero. The proper way to hate this new development is to cite it as a serious deviation from established canon. You're welcome. SaveSaveSaveSaveSaveSaveSaveSaveSaveSave
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Post by charzhino on Jul 12, 2017 22:41:14 GMT
^its funny how you think its hate when its a genuine criticism of the film.
And established canon is Peter is driven and motivated by the death of Uncle Ben and uses his powers, like Batman, to sweep the streets of New York to never allow his own tragic moment to be recreated. Not showing off.
Thats the quintessential to his whole character arc, you cant just ignore it.
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Post by charzhino on Jul 12, 2017 22:42:58 GMT
^its funny how you think its hate when its a genuine criticism of the film.
And established canon is Peter is driven and motivated by the death of Uncle Ben and uses his powers, like Batman, to sweep the streets of New York to never allow his own tragic moment to be recreated. Not showing off.
Thats the quintessential to his whole character arc, you cant just ignore it. So how on earth can anyone say this is the closest to Spiderman weve got to from the comics when you miss the very reason he decides to become Spiderman in the 1st place?
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Post by ThatGuy on Jul 12, 2017 23:14:00 GMT
^its funny how you think its hate when its a genuine criticism of the film. And established canon is Peter is driven and motivated by the death of Uncle Ben and uses his powers, like Batman, to sweep the streets of New York to never allow his own tragic moment to be recreated. Not showing off. Thats the quintessential to his whole character arc, you cant just ignore it. So how on earth can anyone say this is the closest to Spiderman weve got to from the comics when you miss the very reason he decides to become Spiderman in the 1st place? When was he showing off? The only time I can think of him showing off is when the vendor asked him to do a back flip to prove he's Spider-man. There was even a moment when he was suppose to show-off him being Spider-man, but he couldn't. It was a moment of personal gain that he couldn't go through with. You know who did do that? Tobey's Spider-man in Spider-man 3. Also, is he suppose to repeat the "Power and Responsibility" line like a mantra in every iteration of the character? Something never actually said by Ben or Peter, but by narrative text. And yes this is the closest we've gotten to comics Spider-man. He's helping out his neighborhood. Stopping what he thinks are thieves. Helping old ladies. You don't know Spider-man if you don't think he doesn't have fun while doing it. He's not a grim character like Batman. And the drive and motivation he has is not to "sweep the streets of New York to never allow his own tragic moment to be recreated," it's to not be selfish with his powers. To help people because he can.
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Post by formersamhmd on Jul 12, 2017 23:55:14 GMT
^its funny how you think its hate when its a genuine criticism of the film. And established canon is Peter is driven and motivated by the death of Uncle Ben and uses his powers, like Batman, to sweep the streets of New York to never allow his own tragic moment to be recreated. Not showing off. Thats the quintessential to his whole character arc, you cant just ignore it. Peter outright told Tony that he does what he does because, to paraphrase, "If you can do things, and then do nothing, bad stuff happens because of you." That's his motivation, and it's pretty clear how it's his comics motivation only WITHOUT it being spoonfed to us with another Ben death sequence.
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Post by coldenhaulfield on Jul 13, 2017 0:35:20 GMT
^its funny how you think its hate when its a genuine criticism of the film. And established canon is Peter is driven and motivated by the death of Uncle Ben and uses his powers, like Batman, to sweep the streets of New York to never allow his own tragic moment to be recreated. Not showing off. Thats the quintessential to his whole character arc, you cant just ignore it. Peter outright told Tony that he does what he does because, to paraphrase, "If you can do things, and then do nothing, bad stuff happens because of you." That's his motivation, and it's pretty clear how it's his comics motivation only WITHOUT it being spoonfed to us with another Ben death sequence. Wrong again, BJ.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2017 0:58:32 GMT
Peter outright told Tony that he does what he does because, to paraphrase, "If you can do things, and then do nothing, bad stuff happens because of you." That's his motivation, and it's pretty clear how it's his comics motivation only WITHOUT it being spoonfed to us with another Ben death sequence. Wrong again, BJ. Like you'd you, colden? You haven't even seen either film.
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Post by coldenhaulfield on Jul 13, 2017 1:01:54 GMT
Like you'd you, colden? You haven't even seen either film. That's the point! I don't have to've seen either to know he's wrong, because he is an arbitrary little worm. More importantly, and speaking of my not having seen Homecoming: what about that ten dollars?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2017 1:04:33 GMT
Like you'd you, colden? You haven't even seen either film. That's the point! I don't have to've seen either to know he's wrong, because he is an arbitrary little worm. More importantly, and speaking of my not having seen Homecoming: what about that ten dollars? Actually, he's right, as he quite often is.
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Post by coldenhaulfield on Jul 13, 2017 1:10:16 GMT
That's the point! I don't have to've seen either to know he's wrong, because he is an arbitrary little worm. More importantly, and speaking of my not having seen Homecoming: what about that ten dollars? Actually, he's right, as he quite often is. No way! He's a putz. A flatliner. A rube. And more importantly: ten dollars!
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Post by barkingbaphomet on Jul 13, 2017 2:36:43 GMT
i never realized it before but in every one of the thousands of comics that don't flashback to or specifically reference Uncle Ben Spider-Man is an awful little dickweasel.
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Post by DC-Fan on Jul 13, 2017 3:17:10 GMT
Im in the middle of this. There are bigger flaws with homecoming but this is a minor one. I can see why a lack of origin (even 1 or 2 lines) could be a problem. Without outright mentioning Uncle Bens death, Peter being Spiderman is reduced to a simple show off. There's nothing driving him other than wanting to look cool and impress Tony Stark - and that's a shallow reason which betrays his true comic origins which is why I laugh at people who constantly tell me its the best adaptation of Spiderman yet. Its nowhere close, not even referencing his IronMan-spidey tech suit. Batman is driven by the death of his parents and vows to do everything in his power to stop crime in Gotham. Superman is shown by Jor El how he can unite the human and Kryptonian species and bring hope to Earth. Those are noble reasons which are inspiring. Spiderman is in the top 3 most iconic comic heros along with the above- and his motivation for being Spiderman in Homecoming is hoping to get a reply from Happy Hogan. Agreed. 1 of the most emotional and powerful moments in Spider-Man was when Peter caught up to the thief who killed Uncle Ben and Peter sees his face and suddenly realizes that it was the same thief he let get away. SMH missed that completely and basically changes Peter's motivation for being a superhero to be just a high school kid who wants to join the Avengers because he thinks that would be cool and fun and not because he has a sense of responsibility to use his powers for good. SMH is definitely the worst adaptation of Spider-Man ever.
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