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Post by CynicalDreamer2 on Aug 14, 2017 4:23:28 GMT
I knew she wouldn't believe that Oleanna killed her lunatic son, she's flaunting her relationship with her brother and she wants Bronn punished? Is Jamie beginning to live in reality?
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Post by merh on Aug 14, 2017 4:51:19 GMT
I knew she wouldn't believe that Oleanna killed her lunatic son, she's flaunting her relationship with her brother and she wants Bronn punished? Is Jamie beginning to live in reality? I think the betrayal line got to him.
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Post by CynicalDreamer2 on Aug 14, 2017 4:54:41 GMT
I knew she wouldn't believe that Oleanna killed her lunatic son, she's flaunting her relationship with her brother and she wants Bronn punished? Is Jamie beginning to live in reality? I think the betrayal line got to him. Hi Merh!! I'm hoping it did, and I also hope he's taking in what the people around him are saying like Bronn, Tyrion and even Oleanna.
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Post by poelzig on Aug 14, 2017 5:31:02 GMT
An entire other season of constipated cersei will really suck. Now she's all knowing and seeing like bran in addition to her plot armor. How are more people not bored with "Oh yay. cersei survives yet again defying all logic."?
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Aug 14, 2017 12:05:45 GMT
Wouldn't the people riot in the streets if she announced she was having Jaime's baby? Wasn't the accusation of her children being the product on incest what started the War of the Five Kings, from the people's perspective? Didn't they hate her enough to accost her in the streets during her walk of atonement? Frankly I don't understand why there wasn't total chaos following the destruction of the great sept, but there's no way anyone would accept an incestuous false queen on the throne as their enemies surround the city with dragons. Off with her head.
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Post by merh on Aug 14, 2017 13:30:56 GMT
I think the betrayal line got to him. Hi Merh!! I'm hoping it did, and I also hope he's taking in what the people around him are saying like Bronn, Tyrion and even Oleanna. Hi! It feels like it's been building, but it might be the show runners thinking they're all that.
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Post by bluerisk on Aug 14, 2017 14:27:42 GMT
Wouldn't the people riot in the streets if she announced she was having Jaime's baby? Wasn't the accusation of her children being the product on incest what started the War of the Five Kings, from the people's perspective? Didn't they hate her enough to accost her in the streets during her walk of atonement? Frankly I don't understand why there wasn't total chaos following the destruction of the great sept, but there's no way anyone would accept an incestuous false queen on the throne as their enemies surround the city with dragons. Off with her head. But by what right is she Queen? The Lannisters have no claim to the throne. The claims of her late children stem from their father, and thus house Baratheon, and they -in turn- got it due to their Valyrian blood rooting back to Aegon's halfbrother who defeated the stormking and took Stormborn and the stormking's daughter...he also took his words and Sigils. That is how house Baratheon was founded. So Gendry is the only one with Roberts blood and thus a Baratheon, but also a bastard...but basatrd can be legitimated. And there is Jon and Dany - both with Targaryen blood, and both are _no_ bastards. But Cercei...she took the Throne by froce, by the right of conquer, and thus force is the only mean she has to enforce her rule. And since she has no armies left...and who knows how long the Iron bank will bet on her losing horse. The gold is still in King's Landing and this city is more or less under siege by now, and nobody can't enter the black water bay without passing Dragonstone. Hence, Euron must have been travelled by horse while his fleet was sailing for Castely Rock. All along the shore of Dorne and the Reach... But without this teleport, stealth, plot armor, turncloaks like Tarley, and stupidity on team Dany's side, it wouldn't have been even a fight from the beginning. The writers pimped Cercei as good as possible, but I didn't like it at all. Then leaving the high sparrow out and letting have them a real ally like house Tyrell. And why this idea that their gold mines have run out of gold...it is not even in the books and it is even weakening them when they actually need any advantage they can get...but then coming up with this teleport shit. You take their strongest and most plausible advantage, their wealth, and then you compensate it with the shite around Euron Greyjoy and finger-snip defeat of High Garden - they can't take a fortified castle like Riverun by force but with easy an even bigger castle like High Garden?!
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Aug 14, 2017 14:32:27 GMT
Wouldn't the people riot in the streets if she announced she was having Jaime's baby? Wasn't the accusation of her children being the product on incest what started the War of the Five Kings, from the people's perspective? Didn't they hate her enough to accost her in the streets during her walk of atonement? Frankly I don't understand why there wasn't total chaos following the destruction of the great sept, but there's no way anyone would accept an incestuous false queen on the throne as their enemies surround the city with dragons. Off with her head. I don't think so or else they would have done it already.
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Aug 14, 2017 14:35:43 GMT
Wouldn't the people riot in the streets if she announced she was having Jaime's baby? Wasn't the accusation of her children being the product on incest what started the War of the Five Kings, from the people's perspective? Didn't they hate her enough to accost her in the streets during her walk of atonement? Frankly I don't understand why there wasn't total chaos following the destruction of the great sept, but there's no way anyone would accept an incestuous false queen on the throne as their enemies surround the city with dragons. Off with her head. I don't think so or else they would have done it already.
Kind of the point I'm making with this sentence. It's another example of rushed writing this season and last. It makes as much sense as Euron's magic fleet.
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Aug 14, 2017 14:39:40 GMT
Wouldn't the people riot in the streets if she announced she was having Jaime's baby? Wasn't the accusation of her children being the product on incest what started the War of the Five Kings, from the people's perspective? Didn't they hate her enough to accost her in the streets during her walk of atonement? Frankly I don't understand why there wasn't total chaos following the destruction of the great sept, but there's no way anyone would accept an incestuous false queen on the throne as their enemies surround the city with dragons. Off with her head. But by what right is she Queen? The Lannisters have no claim to the throne. The claims of her late children stem from their father, and thus house Baratheon, and they -in turn- got it due to their Valyrian blood rooting back to Aegon's halfbrother who defeated the stormking and took Stormborn and the stormking's daughter...he also took his words and Sigils. That is how house Baratheon was founded. So Gendry is the only one with Roberts blood and thus a Baratheon, but also a bastard...but basatrd can be legitimated. And there is Jon and Dany - both with Targaryen blood, and both are _no_ bastards. But Cercei...she took the Throne by froce, by the right of conquer, and thus force is the only mean she has to enforce her rule. And since she has no armies left...and who knows how long the Iron bank will bet on her losing horse. The gold is still in King's Landing and this city is more or less under siege by now, and nobody can't enter the black water bay without passing Dragonstone. Hence, Euron must have been travelled by horse while his fleet was sailing for Castely Rock. All along the shore of Dorne and the Reach... But without this teleport, stealth, plot armor, turncloaks like Tarley, and stupidity on team Dany's side, it wouldn't have been even a fight from the beginning. The writers pimped Cercei as good as possible, but I didn't like it at all. Then leaving the high sparrow out and letting have them a real ally like house Tyrell. And why this idea that their gold mines have run out of gold...it is not even in the books and it is even weakening them when they actually need any advantage they can get...but then coming up with this teleport shit. You take their strongest and most plausible advantage, their wealth, and then you compensate it with the shite around Euron Greyjoy and finger-snip defeat of High Garden - they can't take a fortified castle like Riverun by force but with easy an even bigger castle like High Garden?! Yeah they're really playing loose and free these last two seasons. I think D & D want to finish this story and move onto their next project. I don't blame them, I just wish we could've gotten two full seasons here instead of two halves. Then we wouldn't have to deal with all these shortcuts.
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Aug 14, 2017 14:39:50 GMT
I don't think so or else they would have done it already.
Kind of the point I'm making with this sentence. It's another example of rushed writing this season and last. It makes as much sense as Euron's magic fleet. The people go where their stomachs carry them.
As long as you feed them, they will be content. No one of import in KL was following High Sparrow and Cersei is the greater threat to individual life than the notion of her boinking her brother or destroying the visible symbol of their religion that they may not be practicing anyway.
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Aug 14, 2017 14:42:30 GMT
Kind of the point I'm making with this sentence. It's another example of rushed writing this season and last. It makes as much sense as Euron's magic fleet. The people go where their stomachs carry them.
As long as you feed them, they will be content. No one of import in KL was following High Sparrow and Cersei is the greater threat to individual life than the notion of her boinking her brother or destroying the visible symbol of their religion that they may not be practicing anyway.
The point was made throughout previous seasons that the people didn't like Cersei in the first place. Remember the difference between their reactions to Margery as opposed to Cersei? They didn't scream at Cersei and throw garbage at her during her walk of atonement because they were afraid of the High Sparrow.
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Aug 14, 2017 14:52:23 GMT
The people go where their stomachs carry them.
As long as you feed them, they will be content. No one of import in KL was following High Sparrow and Cersei is the greater threat to individual life than the notion of her boinking her brother or destroying the visible symbol of their religion that they may not be practicing anyway.
The point was made throughout previous seasons that the people didn't like Cersei in the first place. Remember the difference between their reactions to Margery as opposed to Cersei? They didn't scream at Cersei and throw garbage at her during her walk of atonement because they were afraid of the High Sparrow. They did it because they had the opportunity to do so without repercussion not because they were revolutionaries.
That moment has passed.
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on Aug 14, 2017 14:56:07 GMT
The people go where their stomachs carry them.
As long as you feed them, they will be content. No one of import in KL was following High Sparrow and Cersei is the greater threat to individual life than the notion of her boinking her brother or destroying the visible symbol of their religion that they may not be practicing anyway.
The point was made throughout previous seasons that the people didn't like Cersei in the first place. Remember the difference between their reactions to Margery as opposed to Cersei? They didn't scream at Cersei and throw garbage at her during her walk of atonement because they were afraid of the High Sparrow. All you saw during the walk of shame was the scum come for a spectacle, not the people who mattered in the city. By taking the crown, Cersei saved the city from a power vacuum, which would have brought a period of anarchy and likely civil war. Her acceptance was a way of keeping order in place, which is the prime interest of any honest and productive party in a civilised environment. It makes her the most legitimate ruler in the history of King's Landing, by the way.
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Post by bluerisk on Aug 14, 2017 15:04:31 GMT
Kind of the point I'm making with this sentence. It's another example of rushed writing this season and last. It makes as much sense as Euron's magic fleet. The people go where their stomachs carry them.
As long as you feed them, they will be content. No one of import in KL was following High Sparrow and Cersei is the greater threat to individual life than the notion of her boinking her brother or destroying the visible symbol of their religion that they may not be practicing anyway.
They were quite pissed when the Dornish and Yara were dragged to the street. And as far as I see it, Cercei is also not blamed with the Great Balor incident. Olenna for sure, but the rest is more like: truth or enemy propaganda? Even the measters believed the message from Bran (house Stark is actually no ally of Dany) as a trick to allow Dany sweeping the South. Overall the measters were disgusting but the truth is that most of us would like act like them: if you would tell me about aliens, zombies etc. pp. there was no chance I believed you. And you could have a real footage of an alien ship and everyone on youtube would call it a fake. And if you ask me: even if Dany and Jon can convince the likes of Cercei (maybe even Littlefinger) about the reality of the Night's King, they wouldn't be shocked but ask themselves how they can use him for their own advantage. They are consumed by their ambitions, and so were real guys like Saddam Hussien who played their game till the bitter end. Cercei: So what? it's a dead body that can be killed. Where is the problem. Just kill it! I guess by now she is plotting an ambush during the armistice talks. She pulled a similar stunt on Ned Stark. But Dany is in a far stronger position than Ned Stark ever was. And Lord Bolton was right: if you act like a mad dog (if you dishonor every deal or treaty; when your word of honor becomes worthless) you will be treated like one. That's why it is important to go the hard way and spare the people of dragon fire, because in the long run the softer player will win. KING HENRY V ; W. Shakespeare
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Aug 14, 2017 15:21:08 GMT
The point was made throughout previous seasons that the people didn't like Cersei in the first place. Remember the difference between their reactions to Margery as opposed to Cersei? They didn't scream at Cersei and throw garbage at her during her walk of atonement because they were afraid of the High Sparrow. All you saw during the walk of shame was the scum come for a spectacle, not the people who mattered in the city. By taking the crown, Cersei saved the city from a power vacuum, which would have brought a period of anarchy and likely civil war. Her acceptance was a way of keeping order in place, which is the prime interest of any honest and productive party in a civilised environment. It makes her the most legitimate ruler in the history of King's Landing, by the way. I think the High Sparrow would've filled the power vacuum the way Lenin did after the Bolsheviks took control of Russia. Also, the Seven Kingdoms were already embroiled in civil war during the war of the five kings. As someone pointed out on this board, it makes no sense that Olenna didn't immediately call her banners and openly declare war on Cersei along with Dorne. I would've expected a revolution, particularly in the capital, once Cersei took over. This woman was on trial for her life and the Great Sept exploded, leaving all her enemies destroyed and her with the crown. Perhaps she could've quelled a rebellion; but there was no uprising depicted at all. It's almost as ridiculous as Euron's magic fleet, but I want this story to end sooner or later so I'll take what I can get.
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Aug 14, 2017 15:28:20 GMT
The point was made throughout previous seasons that the people didn't like Cersei in the first place. Remember the difference between their reactions to Margery as opposed to Cersei? They didn't scream at Cersei and throw garbage at her during her walk of atonement because they were afraid of the High Sparrow. They did it because they had the opportunity to do so without repercussion not because they were revolutionaries.
That moment has passed.
Yes, and then Cersei blew up the Great Sept, and all her enemies with it, and seized the crown for herself. The people already didn't like her, it's hard to fathom there would not be resistance from the common folk of the city under those circumstances. Maybe the dude showing his junk to the queen isn't a revolutionary, but you would think more than a few would've been born the day she blew up part of the city to escape justice.
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on Aug 14, 2017 15:30:55 GMT
All you saw during the walk of shame was the scum come for a spectacle, not the people who mattered in the city. By taking the crown, Cersei saved the city from a power vacuum, which would have brought a period of anarchy and likely civil war. Her acceptance was a way of keeping order in place, which is the prime interest of any honest and productive party in a civilised environment. It makes her the most legitimate ruler in the history of King's Landing, by the way. I think the High Sparrow would've filled the power vacuum the way Lenin did after the Bolsheviks took control of Russia. Also, the Seven Kingdoms were already embroiled in civil war during the war of the five kings. As someone pointed out on this board, it makes no sense that Olenna didn't immediately call her banners and openly declare war on Cersei along with Dorne. I would've expected a revolution, particularly in the capital, once Cersei took over. This woman was on trial for her life and the Great Sept exploded, leaving all her enemies destroyed and her with the crown. Perhaps she could've quelled a rebellion; but there was no uprising depicted at all. It's almost as ridiculous as Euron's magic fleet, but I want this story to end sooner or later so I'll take what I can get. You're right, the High Sparrow was the same kind of disaster as Lenin. Good he got wiped. There was no reason for an uprising in King's Landing. Sparrows were more an annoyance than anything. The people had no reasons to be unhappy. Remember how they cheered Joffrey? And even if they had been, it takes serious trouble like famine to get the people to rise. The hate for Cersei is a viewer's sentiment, not something that the people she rules have reasons to share. There might be ridiculous things in the writing but this isn't part of them.
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Aug 14, 2017 15:50:06 GMT
I think the High Sparrow would've filled the power vacuum the way Lenin did after the Bolsheviks took control of Russia. Also, the Seven Kingdoms were already embroiled in civil war during the war of the five kings. As someone pointed out on this board, it makes no sense that Olenna didn't immediately call her banners and openly declare war on Cersei along with Dorne. I would've expected a revolution, particularly in the capital, once Cersei took over. This woman was on trial for her life and the Great Sept exploded, leaving all her enemies destroyed and her with the crown. Perhaps she could've quelled a rebellion; but there was no uprising depicted at all. It's almost as ridiculous as Euron's magic fleet, but I want this story to end sooner or later so I'll take what I can get. You're right, the High Sparrow was the same kind of disaster as Lenin. Good he got wiped. There was no reason for an uprising in King's Landing. Sparrows were more an annoyance than anything. The people had no reasons to be unhappy. Remember how they cheered Joffrey? And even if they had been, it takes serious trouble like famine to get the people to rise. The hate for Cersei is a viewer's sentiment, not something that the people she rules have reasons to share. There might be ridiculous things in the writing but this isn't part of them. No, the hate for Cersei was shown several times throughout the story, and the whispers never completely died down about her children. Speaking as a viewer, I hated the High Sparrow with a passion. Taking him out is the only time I ever rooted for Cersei. But his message resonated with the common folk, that was firmly established. Not everyone was a zealot like his followers, but people clearly had had enough of nobles and royals doing as they pleased at the people's expense. That aspect all but disappeared with the Great Sept; when is reality it would've moved the people further toward open hostility with a false queen. But I suppose the story has moved on, it's not something they're going to revisit now. It's full steam ahead to prophecy and fate at this point.
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on Aug 14, 2017 16:01:02 GMT
You're right, the High Sparrow was the same kind of disaster as Lenin. Good he got wiped. There was no reason for an uprising in King's Landing. Sparrows were more an annoyance than anything. The people had no reasons to be unhappy. Remember how they cheered Joffrey? And even if they had been, it takes serious trouble like famine to get the people to rise. The hate for Cersei is a viewer's sentiment, not something that the people she rules have reasons to share. There might be ridiculous things in the writing but this isn't part of them. No, the hate for Cersei was shown several times throughout the story, and the whispers never completely died down about her children. Speaking as a viewer, I hated the High Sparrow with a passion. Taking him out is the only time I ever rooted for Cersei. But his message resonated with the common folk, that was firmly established. Not everyone was a zealot like his followers, but people clearly had had enough of nobles and royals doing as they pleased at the people's expense. That aspect all but disappeared with the Great Sept; when is reality it would've moved the people further toward open hostility with a false queen. But I suppose the story has moved on, it's not something they're going to revisit now. It's full steam ahead to prophecy and fate at this point. No hate for Cersei was ever shown before, apart from that of starving people in Season 2 who were told the siege they were subjected to was the fault of the royal family. They forgot it soon enough and hailed Joffrey in Season 3. Granted, these were likely not the same but whispers never really die about anything anyway. Tommen was called an abomination in the vicinity of the Sept, where the Sparrows were. Whatever it was, there is always a fringe hating whomever is in power for just that reason. I trust the merchants whose ale and wine was destroyed had reasons to hate Cersei for empowering the Sparrows but they should not have done so for getting rid of them. The fact remains, though, that the common folk has no power whatsoever and no one within the presumed aristocracy of the capital could withstand the Lannister might, should they be bold enough to attempt something. This is why there is no unrest.
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