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Post by Agent of Chaos on Aug 21, 2017 21:15:48 GMT
@handbanana The Guardians of the Galaxy were nowhere near as integral to the Marvel universe or were as itched in pop culture history as the X-Men were before their first movie. The characters featured in the film had been redesigned and repackaged for years, with varying personality traits and costuming. Creative liberties had to be taken to present the films as they are now, on the costume side of things some of the designs for the characters in the past might've been a bit too difficult to pull off on screen. I know. But this is the same guy who gets upset about the changes to unpopular X-characters like Quicksilver. Calming that MCU Quicksilver was treated better because he was more like his comic counterpart.
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Post by formersamhmd on Aug 22, 2017 0:25:57 GMT
@handbanana The Guardians of the Galaxy were nowhere near as integral to the Marvel universe or were as itched in pop culture history as the X-Men were before their first movie. The characters featured in the film had been redesigned and repackaged for years, with varying personality traits and costuming. Creative liberties had to be taken to present the films as they are now, on the costume side of things some of the designs for the characters in the past might've been a bit too difficult to pull off on screen. I know. But this is the same guy who gets upset about the changes to unpopular X-characters like Quicksilver. Calming that MCU Quicksilver was treated better because he was more like his comic counterpart. Well, he WAS closer to his comic portrayal. Fox Quicksilver stood out for basically being an MCU character in a bland film, so naturally he livened things up.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2017 0:34:12 GMT
Jedan ArcherYou said: "Yeah kiddo we got it! Just like the MCU is ashamed by Thor's or Hawkeye's helmets or CA's American costume etc. Know what, they really should be! It's only natural when you grow up.You should try it too sometime. Better that than to get butthurt and to call the kettle black while throwing stones in your MCU glass house." “Critics who treat 'adult' as a term of approval, instead of as a merely descriptive term, cannot be adult themselves. To be concerned about being grown up, to admire the grown up because it is grown up, to blush at the suspicion of being childish; these things are the marks of childhood and adolescence. And in childhood and adolescence they are, in moderation, healthy symptoms. Young things ought to want to grow. But to carry on into middle life or even into early manhood this concern about being adult is a mark of really arrested development. When I was ten, I read fairy tales in secret and would have been ashamed if I had been found doing so. Now that I am fifty I read them openly. When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up.” ― C.S. Lewis
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2017 0:38:37 GMT
Pay attention to what I actually said. I said Gunn has a genuine love of COMICS. Notice the general term I used there. I never said he was a huge fan of Guardians, but he did take the time to read what he was adapting, unlike Singer. In fact, Gunn demonstrates being quite knowledgable of comics through both films if you bothered to pay any sort of attention. Actually, whether or not each and every character has development and an arc is relevant, because you see, even if the Guardians don't perfectly line up with their comic counterparts, that's still better than how Singer has treated most of the X-Men characters. And you wanna know what else? Multiple fans of the FoX-Men films, including mellomoviereview, have admitted that if Singer and Fox were in charge of the MCU, they'd have treated Ironman the way they treat Wolverine, and Captain America the way they treated Cyclops. So do not continue to try insisting that the X-Men films are respectful in any way, shape, or form when the MCU at large has taken great pains to be as true as they can be most of the time. "Because I didn't watch the movie. So I don't have an opinion on Ego. Plus it's not relevant to my point." And we're done. If you can't even muster the decency to have seen the film we're comparing and arguing over, then there is no reason to continue. Oh, and I criticized nothing unwittingly. I'm not a fan of God Loves Man Kills or Return to Weapon X, either. Not that X-Men 2 was an even remotely good adaptation of either one. Two stories that don't hold up that well were made into a movie that doesn't hold up that well. What a surprise. And what they did to poor Lady Deathstrike is EMBARRASSING. So a film that's obsessed with uncovering Wolverine's shady past includes a character that's A PART of that past and then casts out everything she had to do with Wolvy's past. Huh. Fuck Singer. No, Cap would have gotten loads of attention since he is a comic icon and popularity of the Ultimates at the time. Singer in an interview said that he chose to focus characters who were popular in the animated series when making X1 and X2. Lady Deathstrike is not Wolverine's ex-lover like in the animated series, if that is what you are thinking. Cap was guaranteed a lot of attention no matter? Tell that to Reb Brown and Matt Salinger. "Lady Deathstrike is not Wolverine's ex-lover like in the animated series, if that is what you are thinking." Oh, look, someone's missing the forest for the trees. Again. You're good at that. So basically, you're okay with having a character's entire... character removed, just so the writers and director don't have to put out any effort into them, right? Got it. You are an embarrassment to the X-Men fandom.
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Post by Jedan Archer on Aug 22, 2017 10:20:24 GMT
Jedan Archer You said: "Yeah kiddo we got it! Just like the MCU is ashamed by Thor's or Hawkeye's helmets or CA's American costume etc. Know what, they really should be! It's only natural when you grow up.You should try it too sometime. Better that than to get butthurt and to call the kettle black while throwing stones in your MCU glass house." “Critics who treat 'adult' as a term of approval, instead of as a merely descriptive term, cannot be adult themselves. To be concerned about being grown up, to admire the grown up because it is grown up, to blush at the suspicion of being childish; these things are the marks of childhood and adolescence. And in childhood and adolescence they are, in moderation, healthy symptoms. Young things ought to want to grow. But to carry on into middle life or even into early manhood this concern about being adult is a mark of really arrested development. When I was ten, I read fairy tales in secret and would have been ashamed if I had been found doing so. Now that I am fifty I read them openly. When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up.” ― C.S. Lewis
No need to get overly defensive, emotional maturity was not the core point.
My argument was a criticism of evident hypocrisy (tu quoque). Your defensive quote does not apply and is deflective.
That aside, I see your favorite advise to other posters seems to be "Grow Up!". Which nicely brings us back to my initial hypocrisy point. Tu quoque, weirdraptor.
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Post by taylorfirst1 on Aug 22, 2017 17:16:51 GMT
In this short essay by YouTube user kaptainkristian explains the meaning behind superhero costumes and how they characterize the X-Men, and why the majority of the Fox produced X-Men films and their makers have missed the mark entirely about them... www.youtube.com/watch?v=3BXP5XAkPt4charzhino, Dennis Reynolds, lukelovesfilm34, DC-Fan, Tristan Kool-Aid...This is what people mean when they say these movies are ashamed by their source material, among other things. That video is brilliant!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2017 17:26:17 GMT
The black costumes (with highlights) worked fine in the original saga, but I do wish the newer movies would have used something like the more classic costumes. The ending of Apocalypse showed some decent costumes that could have worked throughout the new films.
But in the end, it's not a make-or-break thing for me. These movies are more like sci-fi adventures than straight-up superhero films. So it has a more sci-fi look to it. Whatevs.
Doesn't mean you're "ashamed" of the source material (don't be such a bitch, yo). Just means you want the look to fit the tone. Colorful costumes wouldn't have fit the tone of the original film, which was a sci-fi story about a segment of humanity that regular humans hate just trying to fight to be respected.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2017 17:31:17 GMT
It does nothing of the sort. Okay, then post a source where Gunn said he was a huge fan of GOTG. And Singer said that was his reasoning for not allowing comics to be read on set. Gunn is a clone of Singer in that quote. Were those arcs and reasons from the source material? If not, then that argument is not relevant to the point. Because I didn't watch the movie. So I don't have an opinion on Ego. Plus it's not relevant to my point. You were unwittingly criticizing X2 for having stuff from the story it was based on. WeirdRaptor has severe brain damage. Pay him no mind.
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Post by JudgeJuryDredd on Aug 22, 2017 23:30:00 GMT
The black costumes (with highlights) worked fine in the original saga, but I do wish the newer movies would have used something like the more classic costumes. The ending of Apocalypse showed some decent costumes that could have worked throughout the new films. But in the end, it's not a make-or-break thing for me. These movies are more like sci-fi adventures than straight-up superhero films. So it has a more sci-fi look to it. Whatevs. Doesn't mean you're "ashamed" of the source material (don't be such a bitch, yo). Just means you want the look to fit the tone. Colorful costumes wouldn't have fit the tone of the original film, which was a sci-fi story about a segment of humanity that regular humans hate just trying to fight to be respected. The yellow spandex line in X-Men(2000) does sound like a jab at its comic roots than a nice reference-in-passing. I mean, it is kind of awkward - why say the color yellow and not green or purple if it wasn't intended to criticize the source material? I don't see why having much more colorful costumes like in the comics would've hurt the legitimacy of the stories from the movies, even in the weaker ones. The comic books also told serious science fiction stories with costumes still intact and it didn't hurt the tone they were establishing.
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Post by formersamhmd on Aug 23, 2017 0:09:06 GMT
The black costumes (with highlights) worked fine in the original saga, but I do wish the newer movies would have used something like the more classic costumes. The ending of Apocalypse showed some decent costumes that could have worked throughout the new films. But in the end, it's not a make-or-break thing for me. These movies are more like sci-fi adventures than straight-up superhero films. So it has a more sci-fi look to it. Whatevs. Doesn't mean you're "ashamed" of the source material (don't be such a bitch, yo). Just means you want the look to fit the tone. Colorful costumes wouldn't have fit the tone of the original film, which was a sci-fi story about a segment of humanity that regular humans hate just trying to fight to be respected. The yellow spandex line in X-Men(2000) does sound like a jab at its comic roots than a nice reference-in-passing. I mean, it is kind of awkward - why say the color yellow and not green or purple if it wasn't intended to criticize the source material? I don't see why having much more colorful costumes like in the comics would've hurt the legitimacy of the stories from the movies, even in the weaker ones. The comic books also told serious science fiction stories with costumes still intact and it didn't hurt the tone they were establishing. I can understand why the first film did what it did. Batman and Robin had tarnished the movie CBM genre, so they felt they had to do something different to stay away from that. However, after Spider-Man (2002) came out the stigma was gone so it would've been easy to get the FoX-Men into costumes from X2 onwards.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2017 0:14:37 GMT
The black costumes (with highlights) worked fine in the original saga, but I do wish the newer movies would have used something like the more classic costumes. The ending of Apocalypse showed some decent costumes that could have worked throughout the new films. But in the end, it's not a make-or-break thing for me. These movies are more like sci-fi adventures than straight-up superhero films. So it has a more sci-fi look to it. Whatevs. Doesn't mean you're "ashamed" of the source material (don't be such a bitch, yo). Just means you want the look to fit the tone. Colorful costumes wouldn't have fit the tone of the original film, which was a sci-fi story about a segment of humanity that regular humans hate just trying to fight to be respected. The yellow spandex line in X-Men(2000) does sound like a jab at its comic roots than a nice reference-in-passing. I mean, it is kind of awkward - why say the color yellow and not green or purple if it wasn't intended to criticize the source material? I don't see why having much more colorful costumes like in the comics would've hurt the legitimacy of the stories from the movies, even in the weaker ones. The comic books also told serious science fiction stories with costumes still intact and it didn't hurt the tone they were establishing. It's not criticizing the source material. It's making light of the fact that Wolverine in a bright yellow costume would be totally (and tonally) out of place in the type of story that that first film told. It was a more serious sci-fi take on the X-Men. Plus, if you had actually watched the video you posted, you'd have heard Bryan Singer say that they TRIED to go with the colorful costumes at first. But it just didn't look right. I agree with you that they should have eventually moved to versions of the colorful costumes (that didn't look like straight-up spandex). But the first film didn't need that. Plus, in the original X-Men comic, they all wore the same uniforms, so it's not like they're wiping their ass with the source material (like you're making it out to be).
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Post by formersamhmd on Aug 23, 2017 0:53:42 GMT
The yellow spandex line in X-Men(2000) does sound like a jab at its comic roots than a nice reference-in-passing. I mean, it is kind of awkward - why say the color yellow and not green or purple if it wasn't intended to criticize the source material? I don't see why having much more colorful costumes like in the comics would've hurt the legitimacy of the stories from the movies, even in the weaker ones. The comic books also told serious science fiction stories with costumes still intact and it didn't hurt the tone they were establishing. It's not criticizing the source material. It's making light of the fact that Wolverine in a bright yellow costume would be totally (and tonally) out of place in the type of story that that first film told. It was a more serious sci-fi take on the X-Men. Plus, if you had actually watched the video you posted, you'd have heard Bryan Singer say that they TRIED to go with the colorful costumes at first. But it just didn't look right. That's because they put no effort into adapting the comic costumes in the first place. Saying "We tried" is just their excuse for "We never liked these outfits, so we made the live-action versions as crap as possible so we could laugh at them and make unrelated ones."
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2017 1:05:51 GMT
It's not criticizing the source material. It's making light of the fact that Wolverine in a bright yellow costume would be totally (and tonally) out of place in the type of story that that first film told. It was a more serious sci-fi take on the X-Men. Plus, if you had actually watched the video you posted, you'd have heard Bryan Singer say that they TRIED to go with the colorful costumes at first. But it just didn't look right. That's because they put no effort into adapting the comic costumes in the first place. Please post your proof of that. Don't respond unless it's actual proof and not just your dumb theory.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2017 1:19:09 GMT
That's because they put no effort into adapting the comic costumes in the first place. Please post your proof of that. Don't respond unless it's actual proof and not just your dumb theory. Glasses houses...
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Post by Agent of Chaos on Aug 23, 2017 12:03:23 GMT
No, Cap would have gotten loads of attention since he is a comic icon and popularity of the Ultimates at the time. Singer in an interview said that he chose to focus characters who were popular in the animated series when making X1 and X2. Lady Deathstrike is not Wolverine's ex-lover like in the animated series, if that is what you are thinking. Cap was guaranteed a lot of attention no matter? Tell that to Reb Brown and Matt Salinger. "Lady Deathstrike is not Wolverine's ex-lover like in the animated series, if that is what you are thinking." Oh, look, someone's missing the forest for the trees. Again. You're good at that. So basically, you're okay with having a character's entire... character removed, just so the writers and director don't have to put out any effort into them, right? Got it. You are an embarrassment to the X-Men fandom. My point is that Deathstrike didn't know who Logan was before Weapon X in the comics.
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Post by formersamhmd on Aug 23, 2017 14:11:03 GMT
Cap was guaranteed a lot of attention no matter? Tell that to Reb Brown and Matt Salinger. "Lady Deathstrike is not Wolverine's ex-lover like in the animated series, if that is what you are thinking." Oh, look, someone's missing the forest for the trees. Again. You're good at that. So basically, you're okay with having a character's entire... character removed, just so the writers and director don't have to put out any effort into them, right? Got it. You are an embarrassment to the X-Men fandom. My point is that Deathstrike didn't know who Logan was before Weapon X in the comics. In the comic, Deathstrike had nothing to do with Weapon X. She was her own villain, not someone elses' pawn. She was the daughter of the scientist who created the Adamantium Bonding process. She was never Logan's lover in the comics either. The FOX Cartoon just merged her character with Mariko Ishida.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2017 17:45:24 GMT
Cap was guaranteed a lot of attention no matter? Tell that to Reb Brown and Matt Salinger. "Lady Deathstrike is not Wolverine's ex-lover like in the animated series, if that is what you are thinking." Oh, look, someone's missing the forest for the trees. Again. You're good at that. So basically, you're okay with having a character's entire... character removed, just so the writers and director don't have to put out any effort into them, right? Got it. You are an embarrassment to the X-Men fandom. My point is that Deathstrike didn't know who Logan was before Weapon X in the comics. You don't have a point, because you don't have any ground to stand on. The real point is she should have been her own villain who worked with Stryker for her own purposes. Of course, you'll never see that because you're willing to just swallow whatever cum Bryan Singer spurts your way.
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Post by Agent of Chaos on Aug 24, 2017 7:05:56 GMT
That does not remotely sound like that was your point. And what they did to poor Lady Deathstrike is EMBARRASSING. So a film that's obsessed with uncovering Wolverine's shady past includes a character that's A PART of that past and then casts out everything she had to do with Wolvy's past. Seems like you were under the impression that Deathstrike's relationship in the 90s animated series was canon. It wouldn't be the first time I have seen this confusion.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2017 16:27:19 GMT
That does not remotely sound like that was your point. So a film that's obsessed with uncovering Wolverine's shady past includes a character that's A PART of that past and then casts out everything she had to do with Wolvy's past. Seems like you were under the impression that Deathstrike's relationship in the 90s animated series was canon. It wouldn't be the first time I have seen this confusion. So show me where I've stated that. Show me.
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Post by Agent of Chaos on Aug 24, 2017 16:46:12 GMT
That does not remotely sound like that was your point. Seems like you were under the impression that Deathstrike's relationship in the 90s animated series was canon. It wouldn't be the first time I have seen this confusion. So show me where I've stated that. Show me. By saying that she was apart of his past. In the comics Deathstrike's only connection to Wolverine is that her father created the adamantium bonding process. It wasn't even for Weapon X, they were just stole the idea.
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