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Post by ArArArchStanton on Aug 20, 2017 18:03:17 GMT
There are two main reasons the Defenders was fucking brilliant,
The relationships between the Defenders, and The backstory of the Hand
I'll start with the Hand, because I had so much fun discovering what their backstory and goals really were. Their goal of the 5 members wasn't world domination and never was, so the whole idea that they were some super connected unstoppable force is in error. Instead, they were cast out of Kun Lun ages ago for wanting to use Chi for purposes the monks did not approve of, and further they discovered a way to utilize the (blood?) of shou lao the undying dragon to gain immortality for themselves. Throughout their long lives they needed to find new sources of this (blood?) which they discovered in the fossil remains of ancient defeated dragons. And it seems, at least in the case of new York, Kun Lun used an iron fist to seal away access to that dragon
Unfortunately the locations of these, at least occasionally resided under major cities, and the extraction of the remains caused massive damage to the cities above them. In addition, the five members were forced to assimilate to those cities in order to build the infrastructure needed to extract the remains of the dragon. This meant building businesses, criminal organization, and whatever was necessary in order to gain strategic access to the remains. This is why in Daredevil Season 1, Gao and Nobu are insistent on which block they are purchasing with the King Pin, and why another block will not do.
What happened in Defenders is that they had run out of their current supply of (blood?) and needed to get the new dragon under New York to access more. Alexander felt that using their remaining (blood?) to power Elektra would secure them victory over the current Iron Fist who is the only one who could unlock the gateway to the dragon. And they were right. However, using the blood also meant they couldn't be brought back from the dead and this cost Alexander her life when she couldn't control Elektra. Previously the Hand's forces had been depleted by Daredevil and Iron Fist, leaving them limited to defend against the Defenders infiltrating the access point to the dragon and defeating them. Remembering her past with Matt, Elektra ultimately rescued him from the destruction.
Throughout history the 5 members of the Hand were indifferent to who they harmed in gaining access to the blood, because it was all they ever cared about, aside from the long possibility of potentially returning to Kun Lun, a quest Madam Gao, the only remaining member, may now take up. The chaste, throughout history, sought to prevent the destruction that was caused.
It's an utterly brilliant backstory.
The Defenders meeting was fucking amazing, and I'll point to the two different stories of how Iron Fist and Luke Cage both wound up in the same ally at the same time. I had no idea where the connections would take place, but to find out the kid Luke was trying to take care of was being paid to clean up the dead bodies of the Chaste, whom Iron Fist was seeking help from, was fan fucking tastic. That Jessica would meet Hogarth, who would instruct Foggy about her, who would get Matt to defend her, was equally brilliant. Just incredible solid stuff.
And THEN, the way they all treated each other, their personalities clashing and melding, astounded by each other's abilities, it was perfect. How they all met up at the Hand's headquarters, instantly working together but cautiously, and then the restaurant scene that followed. Matt, "oh this guy has pork", and luke "who can hear neon?", and Jessica, "you can speak Chinese", and Iron Fist "Ching chang chong", was so fun to watch it's some of the best stuff in the MCU. I was excited every second, and I loved it.
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Post by miike80 on Aug 21, 2017 5:52:29 GMT
I found it to be a return to form for Marvel Netflix shows after the watchable but "so-so" Luke Cage and Iron Fist
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Aug 21, 2017 13:27:34 GMT
I found it to be a return to form for Marvel Netflix shows after the watchable but "so-so" Luke Cage and Iron Fist I agree, and I particularly loved the history that was revealed as well as the rather complex character interactions.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2017 14:19:42 GMT
It's great for people with insomnia. Put me right to sleep.
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Post by poelzig on Aug 21, 2017 14:33:15 GMT
63% on metacritic. Ouch. It's being thoroughly slammed by critics. I was hoping it would be at least decent but apparently it's really shitty. I see arf arf is doing his usual hyperbolic cheerleader party. First Homecoming under performed historically and now Defenders is a failure. As Colden would say Time to reboot the mcu.
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Post by JudgeJuryDredd on Aug 22, 2017 5:09:07 GMT
63% on metacritic. Ouch. It's being thoroughly slammed by critics. I was hoping it would be at least decent but apparently it's really shitty. I see arf arf is doing his usual hyperbolic cheerleader party. First Homecoming under performed historically and now Defenders is a failure. As Colden would say Time to reboot the mcu. What good would rebooting the MCU do? So The Defenders was not universally loved and Homecoming isn't making more money, every franchise has its ups and downs the best way is to just go forward and do better. They've established too much in the MCU to drop the ball that far already.
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agentblue
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Post by agentblue on Aug 22, 2017 5:19:42 GMT
Just finished it, it wasnt the best Netflix Marvel show but definitely better than Iron Fist. I liked seeing all of them interact and seeing their supporting players again was cool too. I have almost the same feeling I did when I first watched The Avengers, its so cool. I hope the stupid Hand is done for good now. I cant wait to see the next phase of these shows now!!
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Aug 22, 2017 5:23:23 GMT
What good would rebooting the MCU do? So The Defenders was not universally loved and Homecoming isn't making more money, every franchise has its ups and downs the best way is to just go forward and do better. They've established too much in the MCU to drop the ball that far already. Homecoming is going to make $800 million, what are you talking about? How is that a down? Defenders is getting very solid reception. How is it a down?
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barkingbaphomet
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Post by barkingbaphomet on Aug 22, 2017 5:27:07 GMT
it was okay.
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Post by thenewnexus on Aug 22, 2017 13:03:59 GMT
Weaver gave a great performance but is underutilized. The show dragged at times. Its better than homecoming.
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Aug 22, 2017 14:00:48 GMT
Weaver gave a great performance but is underutilized. The show dragged at times. Its better than homecoming. So did you care to respond about the detailed breakdown I posted of the some of the highlights of the show? Your first and only response was to post something you didn't like about weaver? Why? What?
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Aug 22, 2017 14:04:24 GMT
Just finished it, it wasnt the best Netflix Marvel show but definitely better than Iron Fist. I liked seeing all of them interact and seeing their supporting players again was cool too. I have almost the same feeling I did when I first watched The Avengers, its so cool. I hope the stupid Hand is done for good now. I cant wait to see the next phase of these shows now!! I love the detailed backstory on the Hand, it was super cool, and don't forget Madam Gao seems to still be around so I doubt it's done for good, but I'm great with that. I suspect she'll show up in one of the other mystical cities perhaps in Iron Fist season 2 and that I think is going to get bad ass when Danny gets control of his full power. Overall though, the Hand's ongoing mission to search for the immortal (blood?) of Shou Lao dragons, and when they find them, to build the infrastructure necessary to access it, attaining it no matter what the damage to others is, is a fucking cool story. I think we'll get a little more backstory moving forward too.
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agentblue
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Post by agentblue on Aug 22, 2017 20:41:21 GMT
Just finished it, it wasnt the best Netflix Marvel show but definitely better than Iron Fist. I liked seeing all of them interact and seeing their supporting players again was cool too. I have almost the same feeling I did when I first watched The Avengers, its so cool. I hope the stupid Hand is done for good now. I cant wait to see the next phase of these shows now!! I love the detailed backstory on the Hand, it was super cool, and don't forget Madam Gao seems to still be around so I doubt it's done for good, but I'm great with that. I suspect she'll show up in one of the other mystical cities perhaps in Iron Fist season 2 and that I think is going to get bad ass when Danny gets control of his full power. Overall though, the Hand's ongoing mission to search for the immortal (blood?) of Shou Lao dragons, and when they find them, to build the infrastructure necessary to access it, attaining it no matter what the damage to others is, is a fucking cool story. I think we'll get a little more backstory moving forward too. Oh god please dont bring them back ever again.
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Post by Hauntedknight87 on Aug 22, 2017 20:52:39 GMT
Someone mentioned him in another thread, but how cool would it have been if Fing Fang Foom appeared in the mines as the big antagonist?
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Aug 22, 2017 21:25:35 GMT
I love the detailed backstory on the Hand, it was super cool, and don't forget Madam Gao seems to still be around so I doubt it's done for good, but I'm great with that. I suspect she'll show up in one of the other mystical cities perhaps in Iron Fist season 2 and that I think is going to get bad ass when Danny gets control of his full power. Overall though, the Hand's ongoing mission to search for the immortal (blood?) of Shou Lao dragons, and when they find them, to build the infrastructure necessary to access it, attaining it no matter what the damage to others is, is a fucking cool story. I think we'll get a little more backstory moving forward too. Oh god please dont bring them back ever again. I loved them, looking forward to it.
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agentblue
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Post by agentblue on Aug 23, 2017 2:15:08 GMT
Oh god please dont bring them back ever again. I loved them, looking forward to it. No their time is done.
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Aug 23, 2017 2:29:33 GMT
I loved them, looking forward to it. No their time is done. Not with Madam Gao still around, and we can be almost certain more information about them when Iron Fist goes back to Kun Lun. So no, they aren't done.
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agentblue
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Post by agentblue on Aug 23, 2017 5:33:00 GMT
Not with Madam Gao still around, and we can be almost certain more information about them when Iron Fist goes back to Kun Lun. So no, they aren't done. Gao is likely dead.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2017 11:42:57 GMT
Yeah I pretty much disagree with your entire initial post. The last couple episodes of the season I felt were good but getting there was just so boring because I have no real reason to care about any of these characters. The Alexandra character didn't really mesh with me and nor does The Hand. I just don't give a crap about their plan or any of their characters so pretty much I wasn't invested in the story that the show was telling me. Elektra being this killing machine I enjoyed just was bored completely by the story around it.
In regards to The Defenders themselves, wow I now understand why a bunch of people hated on Iron Fist. That was awful and the fact that the story was very centered around him was not something for me to be interested. I skipped his show because nothing about it seemed appealing to me and none of The Defenders changed my mind into going back and watching it. He's just such a lame character in here and none of his scenes captured my interest it was just so, lack of a better word, boring. I honestly am surprised I managed to finish the show.
Luke Cage I seemed to have an issue with. Does the show know how his powers work or not? Because this show had me all sorts of confused. When Luke and Danny first met Danny was fighting him and Luke was no selling all of his moves until Danny used his super fist. Later in the show Luke is having issues with The Hand while they're kicking and chopping and what not as if it's all the sudden now hurting him. Also, he's fire proof now or something? Where did that come from? His skin is bullet proof but what he can't catch on fire either?
I also felt like there needed to be more stakes to it to really bring them all together instead of just hey, Claire happens to know all these guys and I just didn't feel like they really had a great reason to come together and be a unit. To me the stakes never really hit until the last couple episodes with the deaths of Stick, Alexandra, and Misty getting her arm chopped off. Before that to me it just felt bleak and not what was going to catch my interest as "brilliant" as you put it. I just get the feeling like this would of been a perfect time for Claire to have bitten it because she was put in danger that she should never have been put in. There for it leads to The Defenders joining together in order to make sure no more innocent lives get taken by The Hand. Something to that affect because what they did do didn't work for me.
I also hated how the whole ending was just swept under the rug because, reasons. Yeah Foggy works for some powerful lawyers that's enough to just ignore the fact that these super powered people and Claire of all people blow up a massive building and kill people inside. Nope but don't worry because they're the heroes here we're just going to make sure there are no repercussions right away. I actually enjoyed the conflict they were having with the police force and now that's all just seemingly ignored. Screw that crap. I would of liked it a hell of a lot more had they been arrested and they broke out and became like an A-Team type of deal. Continue this conflict with the police don't just sweep it under the rug. Have Misty still be a bit of an ally to them but have it indeed cost her her job or have her feel conflicted on whether or not she feels she needs to arrest these people if she see's them in the future shows which I'm sure she will.
One more thing, I HATED that they needed to confirm and show everybody that Matt was still alive. I liked that ending so much that it now feels tainted because they blew that load too quickly. I didn't want to know that he was still alive. Let me think that he's actually dead and make a story about it going into the next Daredevil season and then show us he's not still dead. I mean yeah them doing another season of Daredevil tells you that he's not dead but this show didn't need to confirm that to me. It would of been a far better and more satisfying ending had we the viewers been left to believe he died alongside Elektra because I personally felt that was the most emotionally impactful part of the entire series was him and Elektra fighting and how Elektra is now making sure that they'll be together forever in death. It was very well done only for them to screw that up in my mind. It would of just been more satisfying in my mind if that was truly the end of those two characters.
Matt, Jessica, and Elektra were pretty much the only real highlights for me character wise.
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Aug 23, 2017 12:22:23 GMT
Someone mentioned him in another thread, but how cool would it have been if Fing Fang Foom appeared in the mines as the big antagonist? That would've been a step too far. It's difficult meshing the 'street level' tone of the show with the mystical slant, but they made it work somehow. But dragons flopping around would've killed the vibe they were going for. Honestly even the dragon skeletons were on the edge. It would work in comics, but not on this television show.
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