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Post by ArArArchStanton on Mar 1, 2017 7:09:13 GMT
So you want evidence/proof of God's existence, but you don't know what the evidence required is... and in the absence of that evidence which you don't know of....God can't exist. Yeah, you've thought this out... Are you serious? How could I possibly know what evidence, without already knowing what the evidence is?
Are you aware of any evidence, of any kind?
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Mar 1, 2017 7:10:31 GMT
There is no problem. You just need to get a life and quit troubling over what people believe or don't believe. Ahhhh, so right back to the "just leave us alone" argument, which is not coincidentally the subject of this thread.
So why do you so quickly revert to wanting to reject questions?
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Post by The Herald Erjen on Mar 1, 2017 7:14:06 GMT
There is no problem. You just need to get a life and quit troubling over what people believe or don't believe. Ahhhh, so right back to the "just leave us alone" argument, which is not coincidentally the subject of this thread.
So why do you so quickly revert to wanting to reject questions?
I answered your questions. I didn't have to, but I did. You came back with a smartass remark, and I put you in your place.
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Mar 1, 2017 7:15:28 GMT
I answered your questions. I didn't have to, but I did. You came back with a smartass remark, and I put you in your place. You did neither thing. Your response was "god would have to tell me he doesn't exist." If you expected that to taken seriously, I can't take you seriously. good night.
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Post by The Herald Erjen on Mar 1, 2017 7:21:20 GMT
I answered your questions. I didn't have to, but I did. You came back with a smartass remark, and I put you in your place. You did neither thing. Your response was "god would have to tell me he doesn't exist." If you expected that to taken seriously, I can't take you seriously. good night. Yes, you whine that theists won't answer your questions, and when you get answers that you don't like, you whine that your questions were not answered. This isn't the first time. Good night.
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Mar 1, 2017 7:24:44 GMT
Are you serious? How could I possibly know what evidence, without already knowing what the evidence is?
Are you aware of any evidence, of any kind?
You said: What would actual evidence be in YOUR opinion? You also said: I asked like what? What would demonstrate to you that a god is necessary? I asked How would this look? I'm curious. Please explain to me how someone can show you that intelligence can exist before the universe. It's your standard, surely you must know what you need to see. I asked for you to Give me an example. What is the definition of a god? You must have one in order to compare right? Any evidence you've got. You don't need me to give you an example.
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Mar 1, 2017 7:30:10 GMT
Ah, so you're rejecting being questioned? Not at all, I said any demonstration that a god exists is good. I answered you clearly. I'm actually not limiting you, so long as the evidence you present, demonstrates a god is required.
I'm sure if you actually think the analogy you were trying to make works or not, but it doesn't. Just FYI.
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Mar 1, 2017 7:37:37 GMT
You're rejecting my questions... seems pretty clear. OK, I'll bite... what would a demonstration that god exists be? What demonstration would satisfy you? I'll try again... Please explain to me how someone can show you that intelligence can exist before the universe. It's your standard, surely you must know what you need to see. What is the definition of a god? You must have one in order to compare right? I have no idea, which is exactly why I don't believe it.
The question is, why do you?
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Mar 1, 2017 8:05:14 GMT
Then how will you know if and when you see it? You seem to be unable to answer some pretty basic questions. Because sufficient evidence demonstrates a specific conclusion.
You see the way science works, is that we don't go seeking evidence to match answers, but instead, we follow evidence to whatever conclusions it leads to.
I'm answering your questions directly.
If you've come to the conclusion that a god exists, clearly you've followed some evidence to get to that conclusion. Right? What is that evidence?
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Post by Cinemachinery on Mar 1, 2017 8:07:24 GMT
Were my belief set continually being questioned by an ever-graduating-yet-never-changing progression of atheist-101 types only just now stumbling upon arguments had 1001 times before, I'd likely get snappish.
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Post by Jonesy1 on Mar 1, 2017 8:17:00 GMT
There is no problem. You just need to get a life and quit troubling over what people believe or don't believe. Ahhhh, so right back to the "just leave us alone" argument, which is not coincidentally the subject of this thread.
So why do you so quickly revert to wanting to reject questions?
Here's part of reason why people don't want to answer your questions, it's not the questions themselves but the person asking them, as in you. You look down on people, and you have an overinflated sense of entitlement. It goes something like this. "I am entitled to question you. I am entitled to answers from. I am entitled to pry into your personal beliefs. But you are not entitled to not want to be questioned by me."
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Mar 1, 2017 8:27:45 GMT
Here's part of reason why people don't want to answer your questions, it's not the questions themselves but the person asking them, as in you. You look down on people, and you have an overinflated sense of entitlement. It goes something like this. "I am entitled to question you. I am entitled to answers from. I am entitled to pry into your personal beliefs. But you are not entitled to not want to be questioned by me." You're entitled to ask questions too. Why am I not allowed to ask questions? I'm not making any of you respond, so I don't know how you say I'm entitled to any responses. Of course I'm not. Ignore me at your discretion.
And why does anybody get defensive over "personal beliefs"? As if we've all just got this little pocket of irrational thoughts we're afraid to talk about. You can question any belief I hold any time, and I welcome you to it. I have no idea why that is offensive to anybody.
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Mar 1, 2017 8:33:47 GMT
You're avoiding them. You asked for evidence that "intelligence can exist before the universe". In this case, science would posit a hypothesis that intelligence can exist before the universe. In order to prove it, they must be able to recognize proof. Yes? In order to recognize proof, they must understand what they are looking for. Yes? You state that theists reject questioning yet you demand actual evidence that "intelligence can exist before the universe", without ever providing what that evidence must look like in order to prove to YOU the hypothesis. You asked for actual evidence that intelligence or an aspect that would resemble the definition of a god exists before the universe? What definition of a god are you using? You must have some parameter for this evidence. You've set the standard yet you can't explain it or detail it. No. First of all, it's not a hypothesis that intelligence can exist prior to the universe. That isn't even a coherent idea. Hypotheses are based on some level of limited evidence in the first place, and further tests are done to determine if there are consistent results, etc. If further evidence is gathered, it is included, but we do not know what that evidence will be in advance.
I really don't know why you think we know what evidence we are looking for before we find it.
I haven't set any standard. I've left it completely open.
It seems like instead of providing any sort of an explanation, you're just more interested in trying to turn the conversation completely backwards, which is curious.
Is there is any reason that I should continue to respond to you?
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Post by Jonesy1 on Mar 1, 2017 9:35:37 GMT
Here's part of reason why people don't want to answer your questions, it's not the questions themselves but the person asking them, as in you. You look down on people, and you have an overinflated sense of entitlement. It goes something like this. "I am entitled to question you. I am entitled to answers from. I am entitled to pry into your personal beliefs. But you are not entitled to not want to be questioned by me." You're entitled to ask questions too. Why am I not allowed to ask questions? I'm not making any of you respond, so I don't know how you say I'm entitled to any responses. Of course I'm not. Ignore me at your discretion.
And why does anybody get defensive over "personal beliefs"? As if we've all just got this little pocket of irrational thoughts we're afraid to talk about. You can question any belief I hold any time, and I welcome you to it. I have no idea why that is offensive to anybody.
I never said you aren't allowed to ask questions, but you have difficulty understanding that people don't have to answer and if they do you have difficulty accepting the answer given if it isn't the one you expect or demand. And if don't understand why people don't want to answer questions of a personal nature then please tell me, how many times a week do you fuck your wife?
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Mar 1, 2017 9:38:12 GMT
I never said you aren't allowed to ask questions, but you have difficulty understanding that people don't have to answer and if they do you have difficulty accepting the answer given if it isn't the one you expect or demand. And if don't understand why people don't want to answer questions of a personal nature then please tell me, how many times a week do you fuck your wife? I don't have difficultly with that at all. In fact, all I do is respond to the people who do answer.
You act as though all answers are equally good and should be accepted regardless of merit.
Three times a week. Is that really something I should be afraid or uncomfortable to answer?
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Post by Jonesy1 on Mar 1, 2017 9:48:37 GMT
I never said you aren't allowed to ask questions, but you have difficulty understanding that people don't have to answer and if they do you have difficulty accepting the answer given if it isn't the one you expect or demand. And if don't understand why people don't want to answer questions of a personal nature then please tell me, how many times a week do you fuck your wife? I don't have difficultly with that at all. In fact, all I do is respond to the people who do answer.
You act as though all answers are equally good and should be accepted regardless of merit.
Three times a week. Is that really something I should be afraid or uncomfortable to answer?
If all you do is respond to people who do answer then why start threads like this one? You started numerous threads like this on the old RFS boards. If you ask someone about their beliefs and they give you an honest answer then who are you to decide it's merit? Good for you, however if you had responded saying it's personal then I would have respected that and not questioned you further. But if you ask someone about their personal beliefs and they tell you it's personal would you be willing to respect that and refrain from asking further?
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Mar 1, 2017 10:04:22 GMT
If all you do is respond to people who do answer then why start threads like this one? You started numerous threads like this on the old RFS boards. If you ask someone about their beliefs and they give you an honest answer then who are you to decide it's merit? Good for you, however if you had responded saying it's personal then I would have respected that and not questioned you further. But if you ask someone about their personal beliefs and they tell you it's personal would you be willing to respect that and refrain from asking further? So again, you think any answer should be accepted as is, with no further question?
The thing about these beliefs is they aren't personal. They are claims about reality.
Stop trying to pack them in as though they are some personal topic that is inappropriate to discuss. No, I don't respect that excuse at all.
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Post by Jonesy1 on Mar 1, 2017 10:11:59 GMT
If all you do is respond to people who do answer then why start threads like this one? You started numerous threads like this on the old RFS boards. If you ask someone about their beliefs and they give you an honest answer then who are you to decide it's merit? Good for you, however if you had responded saying it's personal then I would have respected that and not questioned you further. But if you ask someone about their personal beliefs and they tell you it's personal would you be willing to respect that and refrain from asking further? No, I don't respect that excuse at all. And that tells me all I need to know about you.
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Mar 1, 2017 10:14:11 GMT
No, I don't respect that excuse at all. And that tells me all I need to know about you. Yeah because all great discoveries were immediately followed by the discoverer saying "it's my personal belief, no questions please" and everybody respected those famous scientists for that very response.
Tell me what is respectable about hiding behind the "it's my personal belief" line?
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Post by Arlon10 on Mar 1, 2017 10:46:51 GMT
<several things addressed individually> It can seem that way when it's not, but I think most people here on either side of the existence of god debate agree with you. ArArArchStanton needs to work on his style. It's the worst. It can seem that way when it's not, but that's the whole point of debate, to find out which is which.
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