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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Mar 1, 2017 11:51:10 GMT
I see a lot of theists who respond with "I have the right to believe whatever I want" or some such similar line.
yes, you do. Nobody said you didn't.
Are we supposed to stop asking questions then? Me: What questions do you have? Theophobiac: Tell me everything you know about why you make stupid choices. Me: Theophobiac: I knew it. You got NOTHING!!!!!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2017 11:52:10 GMT
because it highlights the fact that that they don't have answers.
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Mar 1, 2017 11:54:37 GMT
because it highlights the fact that that they don't have answers. Untrue. There have been plenty of totally ignored answers to appropriate questions. It's the questions that tend to be retarded. No one has tripped me up yet!
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Post by The Herald Erjen on Mar 1, 2017 11:58:05 GMT
because it highlights the fact that that they don't have answers. He got answers, and he didn't like the answers he got, so he lied and said that he didn't get answers, and yet he and you and the other vermin still keep coming back. Why is that?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2017 12:17:29 GMT
because it highlights the fact that that they don't have answers. He got answers, and he didn't like the answers he got, so he lied and said that he didn't get answers, and yet he and you and the other vermin still keep coming back. Why is that? That's because you have a fevered imagination and like to pretend you have answers when you don't.
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Mar 1, 2017 12:20:59 GMT
So is the only answer that matters the ones that are made up for a "theist" ahead of time? Maybe the questions were rhetorical to begin with. If only we knew the rules!
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Post by The Herald Erjen on Mar 1, 2017 12:25:51 GMT
He got answers, and he didn't like the answers he got, so he lied and said that he didn't get answers, and yet he and you and the other vermin still keep coming back. Why is that? That's because you have a fevered imagination and like to pretend you have answers when you don't. There are no answers that an entity like you would be satisfied with, yet you still keep coming back. Why is that?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2017 12:30:29 GMT
That's because you have a fevered imagination and like to pretend you have answers when you don't. There are no answers that an entity like you would be satisfied with, yet you still keep coming back. Why is that? That's because you still have a fevered imagination and like to pretend that I don't accept your "answers" because of a problem with me, when it's actually because your answers are usually terrible.
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Mar 1, 2017 14:13:19 GMT
Anything that gives unambiguous and conclusive attribution of an event or circumstance to the deliberate supernatural of your choice, outside of the hearsay and circular claims of scripture or personal credulity. Do you have anything that would satisfy the terms of such a demonstration? Since only intelligence would allow for deliberation before creation giving it a perceived meaning, then this atheist at least would be pleased just with that which is described above (it being commonly being described as 'outside of time and space and all.) I hope that will not be a problem.
In so far as one presumes that we are talking the traditional sort then it would be the supernatural creator and ruler of the universe and source of all moral authority, the supreme being. Or, less specifically, a superhuman being or spirit worshipped as having power over nature or human fortunes; a deity.
What definition do you follow?
Here's a new question for you: can you show the difference between a real and imaginary god? Or, what would serve to falsify one god and not another (yours, say?)
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Mar 1, 2017 16:46:45 GMT
<several things addressed individually> It can seem that way when it's not, but I think most people here on either side of the existence of god debate agree with you. ArArArchStanton needs to work on his style. It's the worst. It can seem that way when it's not, but that's the whole point of debate, to find out which is which. I would explain my disposition as, some arguments, not all, earn the title of nonsense and need to be plainly stated as nonsense. At some point an idea no longer maintains credibility and it's at this point where some, like yourself, seem to have a problem with my style. If this were any other subject matter, say people trying to claim the world was flat, none of us would have a problem shouting such a silly idea down, but for some reason we allow this one to persist with equally poor evidence.
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Post by filmfan95 on Mar 1, 2017 20:32:57 GMT
I will happily answer any questions regarding my faith if they are asked to me. You can disagree all you want, because we are all entitled to our opinions. Great! :-)
How about I start, by simply asking, what convincing you that a god is something real.
There are many answers I could give here, but I'll keep it simple. I believe that the way the universe is set up really only makes sense if there was some divine source that set it up that way. We have the Earth positioned just the right distance away from the sun, just the right distance away from the moon, that gravity doesn't crush us or the temperature kill us. It's a very small chance that it would be just in the right position. Is it possible that it just happened to be that way? Yes, but I think it's quite a stretch, and supernatural power makes much more sense than just "coincidence," IMO. I also believe that God has given me signs, to help me figure out what to do, to warn me of certain things, to protect me, to let me know about things I've asked him. I'm not going to go too much into this, as this is very personal to me, and I like to stay quiet about those things, but some of these signs have been pretty amazing to me, and they are all the more reason for me to believe they were legit.
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Mar 1, 2017 20:54:12 GMT
There are many answers I could give here, but I'll keep it simple. I believe that the way the universe is set up really only makes sense if there was some divine source that set it up that way. We have the Earth positioned just the right distance away from the sun, just the right distance away from the moon, that gravity doesn't crush us or the temperature kill us. It's a very small chance that it would be just in the right position. Is it possible that it just happened to be that way? Yes, but I think it's quite a stretch, and supernatural power makes much more sense than just "coincidence," IMO. I also believe that God has given me signs, to help me figure out what to do, to warn me of certain things, to protect me, to let me know about things I've asked him. I'm not going to go too much into this, as this is very personal to me, and I like to stay quiet about those things, but some of these signs have been pretty amazing to me, and they are all the more reason for me to believe they were legit. Ok, well I don't know why you think it's "just right". The Earth could be almost as far out as Mars and still have life. It's not like it's that precise. Are you under the impression that things couldn't be any different? I mean we already know that life can survive in the deep pressure of the sea, and in conditions from the artic to edge of volcanoes, so I really don't see what you think is so perfect that it couldn't be any different. It's not at all like the Earth had to be intentionally placed here to be where it is. I honestly just think you don't have a good understanding of how planets form. You know they are debris from exploded stars right? You know what a habitable zone is around a star right and that all stars have a habitable zone? You know that we have found dozens of plants in these habitable zones right? There is nothing coincidental about that. Try thinking of life as a chemical byproduct if certain conditions are met, and you'll realize the word coincidence doesn't really apply.
And regarding signs to protect you. I mean, there are millions of starving children in the world who's parents pray for them, but you think god protects you. Because it's you? I mean do you kind of see how selfish that sounds?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2017 21:23:17 GMT
Great! :-)
How about I start, by simply asking, what convincing you that a god is something real.
There are many answers I could give here, but I'll keep it simple. I believe that the way the universe is set up really only makes sense if there was some divine source that set it up that way. We have the Earth positioned just the right distance away from the sun, just the right distance away from the moon, that gravity doesn't crush us or the temperature kill us. It's a very small chance that it would be just in the right position. Is it possible that it just happened to be that way? Yes, but I think it's quite a stretch, and supernatural power makes much more sense than just "coincidence," IMO. Again, though, it's not that Earth is a great fit for us. It's that we are a great fit for Earth, because this is where we evolved. Right now there could be a creature walking around in the methane clouds of Titan saying "You know, it's so amazing that we happen to be out here in the outer system, nice and far from the sun, and have this methane atmosphere and this really low gravity that is just perfect for us. Imagine if we lived in a temperature that was so high that water itself could actually be LIQUID! Or had a gravity five or six times our own, like some of those inner ones do! Or even an atmosphere filled with a high percentage of that terrible poison, Oxygen! Surely this proves that a divine force put Titan exactly here just for us."
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Mar 1, 2017 21:26:28 GMT
Again, though, it's not that Earth is a great fit for us. It's that we are a great fit for Earth, because this is where we evolved. Right now there could be a creature walking around in the methane clouds of Titan saying "You know, it's so amazing that we happen to be out here in the outer system, nice and far from the sun, and have this methane atmosphere and this really low gravity that is just perfect for us. Imagine if we lived in a temperature that was so high that water itself could actually be LIQUID! Or had a gravity five or six times our own, like some of those inner ones do! Or even an atmosphere filled with a high percentage of that terrible poison, Oxygen! Surely this proves that a divine force put Titan exactly here just for us." Well said.
This whole, "what are the chances the Earth is in a perfect spot" idea, doesn't mean anything at all. Especially when you consider the vast differences in environments different organisms we live in on this planet alone. And yet somehow the idea is that only this planet can work?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2017 21:33:29 GMT
It's also worth noting that our universe is in fact immensely UNFIT for life of our own kind.
Drop a human being into the universe in a random location. There's a near 100% chance that he will be in deep space and will therefore immediately die.
Rule out deep space. Drop a human being into a random planet. Mostly they're solid rock or gas which will kill your person instantly.
Okay, so drop him onto the surface of a planet. For 99.99% of planets, same result - instant death if you end up on the surface of Mercury, Mars, Venus, etc.
Even put him somewhere randomly on the surface of Earth, and the chances are that he won't last long unless he has tools and specialised knowledge.
The percentage of the universe which is comfortably habitable for a human being is so close to zero that to look at the universe and say "this was made specially for us" is an absurdity.
In fact, it is nothing but the worst kind of egomania. It's like a bacterium clinging to your head and claiming that Human civilisation only exists so that it has clean hair to live on.
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Mar 1, 2017 22:02:12 GMT
It's also worth noting that our universe is in fact immensely UNFIT for life of our own kind. Drop a human being into the universe in a random location. There's a near 100% chance that he will be in deep space and will therefore immediately die. Rule out deep space. Drop a human being into a random planet. Mostly they're solid rock or gas which will kill your person instantly. Okay, so drop him onto the surface of a planet. For 99.99% of planets, same result - instant death if you end up on the surface of Mercury, Mars, Venus, etc. Even put him somewhere randomly on the surface of Earth, and the chances are that he won't last long unless he has tools and specialised knowledge. The percentage of the universe which is comfortably habitable for a human being is so close to zero that to look at the universe and say "this was made specially for us" is an absurdity. In fact, it is nothing but the worst kind of egomania. It's like a bacterium clinging to your head and claiming that Human civilisation only exists so that it has clean hair to live on. This is creating an argument that doesn't really exist.
The fact that the religious can appreciate the beauty of a universe and that the Earth is qualified to house much life unlike ANYTHING else found in the universe has no reason to get you bent out of shape or pretend that it is anything but a humbling gesture rather than the egotistical one you pretend it is.
Further, the earth could be mud, we could have no bones, and poop through our mouths, eating moldy Brussel Sprouts all day through our ear and it wouldn't change the notion of creation being more likely.
It is literally all we know about how life comes about even factoring in all the myriads thoughts on evolution and yet you would think theophobiacs have actually seen it happen otherwise outside of pretty pictures in their favorite biology books.
On the plus side I like how this argument dovetails into the notion of how unlikely life is throughout the universe.
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Post by Eva Yojimbo on Mar 1, 2017 22:45:20 GMT
It's also worth noting that our universe is in fact immensely UNFIT for life of our own kind. Drop a human being into the universe in a random location. There's a near 100% chance that he will be in deep space and will therefore immediately die. Rule out deep space. Drop a human being into a random planet. Mostly they're solid rock or gas which will kill your person instantly. Okay, so drop him onto the surface of a planet. For 99.99% of planets, same result - instant death if you end up on the surface of Mercury, Mars, Venus, etc. Even put him somewhere randomly on the surface of Earth, and the chances are that he won't last long unless he has tools and specialised knowledge. The percentage of the universe which is comfortably habitable for a human being is so close to zero that to look at the universe and say "this was made specially for us" is an absurdity. In fact, it is nothing but the worst kind of egomania. It's like a bacterium clinging to your head and claiming that Human civilisation only exists so that it has clean hair to live on. Earth is qualified to house much life unlike ANYTHING else found in the universe Errr, come again? Earth is hardly unique in being habitable for life. We've even compiled a list of Potentially Habitable Planets That's only a list of planets we know about. The number of habitable planets in the universe is likely much greater than that list. Universe is a big place: approximately 92 billion light years in diameter. That list only includes planets within 2500 light years. You really think that in the remaining 91,999,997,500 light years there aren't more of them? Earth probably isn't all that special, really. What "it" are you referring to in this paragraph?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2017 22:47:00 GMT
This is creating an argument that doesn't really exist. No, it's dealing with an argument that DOES exist. Just because you may not use that argument, this doesn't mean that others don't.
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Mar 2, 2017 2:31:10 GMT
This is creating an argument that doesn't really exist. No, it's dealing with an argument that DOES exist. Just because you may not use that argument, this doesn't mean that others don't. No it doesn't. You are making up appreciation for the universe as thinking that Christians think they are the center of the universe which is a ludicrous accusation.
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Mar 2, 2017 2:41:20 GMT
Earth is qualified to house much life unlike ANYTHING else found in the universe Errr, come again? Earth is hardly unique in being habitable for life. We've even compiled a list of Potentially Habitable Planets That's only a list of planets we know about. The number of habitable planets in the universe is likely much greater than that list. Universe is a big place: approximately 92 billion light years in diameter. That list only includes planets within 2500 light years. You really think that in the remaining 91,999,997,500 light years there aren't more of them? Earth probably isn't all that special, really. What "it" are you referring to in this paragraph? You need to read my statement again. Nothing has been found. That's all I'm saying. If there is life on other planets, then so be it. However, let's not pretend that any of those planets come even close to being like Earth just because they fit a broad parameter. The reality is that even if there is a New York City on Gliese, we will never know. In short, there is nothing wrong with being happy for being on such a great planet.
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