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Post by JudgeJuryDredd on Sept 4, 2017 22:44:44 GMT
So if the MCU as a whole is a dud then what particular franchise universe should they strive to be then? I'm just curious... Star Trek is definitely not lame, there are some weak additions to the mythos but its endured this long for good reason, name another sci-fi franchise it should strive to be to avoid being "lame", because from what they're doing to Star Trek Discovery they couldn't have gone in such a wrong direction this side of Star Trek Nemesis. I'll take Drax The Destroyer over the FOX-Men's rendition of Bobby Drake/Iceman and Rogue, that is for sure. Drax at least has a distinguished personality and displays more emotion than being mopey. Him being an alien from a race of aliens whose culture is incredibly distant from everywhere else in the universe leads to many hilarious opportunities( If the jokes bother you, then how would you have gone about it? Lets here you, funny guy). And he can be a real bad-ass, something neither Bobby or Rogue were in the X-Men movies( Even Anna Paquin has apologized to fans about her character not being as big a bad ass as her comic counterpart). no, MC is not a dud, but it's LAME in the literal and figurative sense: If there is an overall frame storyline? I guess so? Um, a few scenes with a silly, purple CGI-blob who mimics the big bad about to attack Earth since forever (how original),...and always loses doing so (poor blob)! And also some magical stones a la LotR that help to deus ex machina destroy all enemies by distraction of Dance Off and such? And always the same generic character arcs (From Jerk to Nice Guy Hero) and formula elements repeated ad nauseam. That's it...? This type of sluggish storytelling is the epitome of lame. Get to the point already MCU! What to do better? Just look at all the serialized shows and movie franchises that have a genuine story arc to tell and get to the point. Maybe Star Wars, maybe X-Men 1-3, maybe GoT, maybe Matrix, maybe a hundred others? I was sarcastic regarding Star Trek, it's one of the best, but the serialized storytelling has made giant leaps in the last 3 decades. Lol, "Drax the Destroyer" seriously...? And I thought Conan the Destroyer sounds silly and derivative. Completely disagree on everything and do not see the connection between these characters. And how much would Ms. Paquin have had to apologize if X-Men was actually part of MCU and she had said stuff like "I have sensitive nipples, oh my goodness, my nippples!!! or "Hahahaha, I have famously huge turds" or "Did you create a penis" or "Die spaceship die, Screw you spaceship" etc etc. Hm, how many times...? Any number you can fathom would not nearly be often enough that's how many! The MCU does not function the same way as Star Wars or The Matrix, both of which focus on a specific amount of characters for a trilogy of stories. The MCU, like its comic counterpart, has a universe comprised of characters with their own stories, all of which do need to be seen in order for people to care for them when they do eventually come face to face with big bads like Thanos. Seeds are planted in some of the content to create a path to take for stories that meet their culmination in big events, like in the comics themselves. If you hate this approach, then you don't seem like a real fan of the material then except for liking much more contained story arcs which usually are "elseworlds" stories - which is fine, they're are many great ones, but they don't represent the entire landscape of their respective brands. But I don't see how the MCU is basically a "copy and paste" with each bit of content they release, if you strip everything down to barest of storytelling essentials, they're are similarities, but execution is whole different story in and of itself. Also, what exactly did the X-Men trilogy(2000-2006) have as its arc? Dark Pheonix? So much for that( Way to go Tommy Boy Rothman) Yes, "Drax the Destroyer" is the name he was given in the comics, in more recent media he's mostly referred to as just "Drax". If you find that humorous, very well, but that name is part of his character. Drax in the first Guardians is a warrior from an alien world who typically thinks and acts like a one man army, his race of people come from a planet which very much isolates itself from the rest of the universe and have their own line of thinking which is quite straight forward, as Rocket points out in GOTG Vol. 1 because he and his people are so literal metaphors fly right over his head. At the end and in GOTG Vol. 2 he accepts being part of a team and finds his newfound emotional attachment to them and their commodity exciting, so he is happy cracking jokes even if they are not exactly well meaning or well executed. It's a fish-out-of-water-trying-to-be-part-of-the-pact scenario. If you don't find Drax's lines funny, fine, fair is fair I suppose. My point is that Drax is a standout character that is instantly recognizable by people and is enjoyable to watch on screen, neither Bobby or Rogue are stand out characters in the X-Men movies they've appeared in despite what roles they played in the narrative. They're basically "just there", and really do not represent even half of what they are in the comic books: Bobby is a fun-loving, wise-cracking joker, Rogue is usually fairly battle ready, can fly, and possess much more power than what they movies will have you believe. We've had X-Men movies since 2000, and the number of X-Men who have made enough impact is surprisingly quite small when in consideration the vast number of characters who occupy the franchise. Rogue and Ice Man are viewed as top tier members of the X-Men in its history, the movies they appeared in didn't do them any favors whatsoever, or the careers of their portrayers much either. I mean, Ashmore looks to be stuck in TV land playing "meh" supporting characters in mostly "meh" programs. Outside of Days of Future Past, Anna Paquin's other "major" successes have been on True Blood which ended a few years ago and doing a voice in The Good Dinosaur. Thanks to his role in Guardians, Dave Bautista's gone onto doing other mainstream projects like in Blade Runner 2049 and Spectre(007), as has more in active development as we speak. Are those parts as big as Drax? Not quite, but they have enough meat to them that will make him stand out in those. And before you say "At least Paquin and Ashmore are better actors!" not the point I'm making here, Drax has helped Bautista's career but neither Rogue or Ice Man helped Paquin or Ashmore's careers. Which just shows how underused glossed over their characters were in the movies they appeared in and that Fox and Singer didn't give them enough to do other than be mopey teens who can do this and that but doesn't serve for the "wow" factor much or at all.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2017 22:46:34 GMT
no, MC is not a dud, but it's LAME in the literal and figurative sense: If there is an overall frame storyline? I guess so? Um, a few scenes with a silly, purple CGI-blob who mimics the big bad about to attack Earth since forever (how original),...and always loses doing so (poor blob)! And also some magical stones a la LotR that help to deus ex machina destroy all enemies by distraction of Dance Off and such? And always the same generic character arcs (From Jerk to Nice Guy Hero) and formula elements repeated ad nauseam. That's it...? This type of sluggish storytelling is the epitome of lame. Get to the point already MCU! What to do better? Just look at all the serialized shows and movie franchises that have a genuine story arc to tell and get to the point. Maybe Star Wars, maybe X-Men 1-3, maybe GoT, maybe Matrix, maybe a hundred others? I was sarcastic regarding Star Trek, it's one of the best, but the serialized storytelling has made giant leaps in the last 3 decades. Lol, "Drax the Destroyer" seriously...? And I thought Conan the Destroyer sounds silly and derivative. Completely disagree on everything and do not see the connection between these characters. And how much would Ms. Paquin have had to apologize if X-Men was actually part of MCU and she had said stuff like "I have sensitive nipples, oh my goodness, my nippples!!! or "Hahahaha, I have famously huge turds" or "Did you create a penis" or "Die spaceship die, Screw you spaceship" etc etc. Hm, how many times...? Any number you can fathom would not nearly be often enough that's how many! The MCU does not function the same way as Star Wars or The Matrix, both of which focus on a specific amount of characters for a trilogy of stories. The MCU, like its comic counterpart, has a universe comprised of characters with their own stories, all of which do need to be seen in order for people to care for them when they do eventually come face to face with big bads like Thanos. Seeds are planted in some of the content to create a path to take for stories that meet their culmination in big events, like in the comics themselves. If you hate this approach, then you don't seem like a real fan of the material then except for liking much more contained story arcs which usually are "elseworlds" stories - which is fine, they're are many great ones, but they don't represent the entire landscape of their respective brands. But I don't see how the MCU is basically a "copy and paste" with each bit of content they release, if you strip everything down to barest of storytelling essentials, they're are similarities, but execution is whole different story in and of itself. Also, what exactly did the X-Men trilogy(2000-2006) have as its arc? Dark Pheonix? So much for that( Way to go Tommy Boy Rothman) Yes, "Drax the Destroyer" is the name he was given in the comics, in more recent media he's mostly referred to as just "Drax". If you find that humorous, very well, but that name is part of his character. Drax in the first Guardians is a warrior from an alien world who typically thinks and acts like a one man army, his race of people come from a planet which very much isolates itself from the rest of the universe and have their own line of thinking which is quite straight forward, as Rocket points out in GOTG Vol. 1 because he and his people are so literal metaphors fly right over his head. At the end and in GOTG Vol. 2 he accepts being part of a team and finds his newfound emotional attachment to them and their commodity exciting, so he is happy cracking jokes even if they are not exactly well meaning or well executed. It's a fish-out-of-water-trying-to-be-part-of-the-pact scenario. If you don't find Drax's lines funny, fine, fair is fair I suppose. My point is that Drax is a standout character that is instantly recognizable by people and is enjoyable to watch on screen, neither Bobby or Rogue are stand out characters in the X-Men movies they've appeared in despite what roles they played in the narrative. They're basically "just there", and really do not represent even half of what they are in the comic books: Bobby is a fun-loving, wise-cracking joker, Rogue is usually fairly battle ready, can fly, and possess much more power than what they movies will have you believe. We've had X-Men movies since 2000, and the number of X-Men who have made enough impact is surprisingly quite small when in consideration the vast number of characters who occupy the franchise. Rogue and Ice Man are viewed as top tier members of the X-Men in its history, the movies they appeared in didn't do them any favors whatsoever, or the careers of their portrayers much either. I mean, Ashmore looks to be stuck in TV land playing "meh" supporting characters in mostly "meh" programs. Outside of Days of Future Past, Anna Paquin's other "major" successes have been on True Blood which ended a few years ago and doing a voice in The Good Dinosaur. Thanks to his role in Guardians, Dave Bautista's gone onto doing other mainstream projects like in Blade Runner 2049 and Spectre(007), as has more in active development as we speak. Are those parts as big as Drax? Not quite, but they have enough meat to them that will make him stand out in those. And before you say "At least Paquin and Ashmore are better actors!" not the point I'm making here, Drax has helped Bautista's career but neither Rogue or Ice Man helped Paquin or Ashmore's careers. Which just shows how underused glossed over their characters were in the movies they appeared in and that Fox and Singer didn't give them enough to do other than be mopey teens who can do this and that but doesn't serve for the "wow" factor much or at all. You shouldn't humor him.
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Post by JudgeJuryDredd on Sept 4, 2017 22:52:11 GMT
I'll take Drax The Destroyer over the FOX-Men's rendition of Bobby Drake/Iceman and Rogue, that is for sure. Drax at least has a distinguished personality and displays more emotion than being mopey. Drax is a character written with the most cheesiest, most cringe-worthy lines in the whole of the MCU - and that itself takes a lotta effort. Portrayed by a incompetent actor who doesnt even have a fight scene in GotG2 even though his nickname is The Destroyer. Pretty sad you would take him over Bobby Drake whose more fleshed out and given a lot more useful stuff to do than someone who jokes about turds. But cant say im surprised, you will eat anything Feige $hits out. Yeah, I'll take Drax, a character with an interesting backstory and personality that opens up plenty of storytelling opportunities that don't make me the viewer tire of watching him over one who is very much a watered down, bone-dry rendition of an otherwise fun character like Bobby Drake. Meanwhile, Dave Bautista, thanks to playing Drax, is getting much more career opportunities whereas Shawn Ashmore can hardly catch a break on TV, no thanks to playing Ice Man - A shame, because he's a good actor and could've done the character real justice, but Fox and Singer didn't allow that to happen did they? Guess you cannot answer that, because you don't read comics.
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Post by JudgeJuryDredd on Sept 4, 2017 22:53:31 GMT
The MCU does not function the same way as Star Wars or The Matrix, both of which focus on a specific amount of characters for a trilogy of stories. The MCU, like its comic counterpart, has a universe comprised of characters with their own stories, all of which do need to be seen in order for people to care for them when they do eventually come face to face with big bads like Thanos. Seeds are planted in some of the content to create a path to take for stories that meet their culmination in big events, like in the comics themselves. If you hate this approach, then you don't seem like a real fan of the material then except for liking much more contained story arcs which usually are "elseworlds" stories - which is fine, they're are many great ones, but they don't represent the entire landscape of their respective brands. But I don't see how the MCU is basically a "copy and paste" with each bit of content they release, if you strip everything down to barest of storytelling essentials, they're are similarities, but execution is whole different story in and of itself. Also, what exactly did the X-Men trilogy(2000-2006) have as its arc? Dark Pheonix? So much for that( Way to go Tommy Boy Rothman) Yes, "Drax the Destroyer" is the name he was given in the comics, in more recent media he's mostly referred to as just "Drax". If you find that humorous, very well, but that name is part of his character. Drax in the first Guardians is a warrior from an alien world who typically thinks and acts like a one man army, his race of people come from a planet which very much isolates itself from the rest of the universe and have their own line of thinking which is quite straight forward, as Rocket points out in GOTG Vol. 1 because he and his people are so literal metaphors fly right over his head. At the end and in GOTG Vol. 2 he accepts being part of a team and finds his newfound emotional attachment to them and their commodity exciting, so he is happy cracking jokes even if they are not exactly well meaning or well executed. It's a fish-out-of-water-trying-to-be-part-of-the-pact scenario. If you don't find Drax's lines funny, fine, fair is fair I suppose. My point is that Drax is a standout character that is instantly recognizable by people and is enjoyable to watch on screen, neither Bobby or Rogue are stand out characters in the X-Men movies they've appeared in despite what roles they played in the narrative. They're basically "just there", and really do not represent even half of what they are in the comic books: Bobby is a fun-loving, wise-cracking joker, Rogue is usually fairly battle ready, can fly, and possess much more power than what they movies will have you believe. We've had X-Men movies since 2000, and the number of X-Men who have made enough impact is surprisingly quite small when in consideration the vast number of characters who occupy the franchise. Rogue and Ice Man are viewed as top tier members of the X-Men in its history, the movies they appeared in didn't do them any favors whatsoever, or the careers of their portrayers much either. I mean, Ashmore looks to be stuck in TV land playing "meh" supporting characters in mostly "meh" programs. Outside of Days of Future Past, Anna Paquin's other "major" successes have been on True Blood which ended a few years ago and doing a voice in The Good Dinosaur. Thanks to his role in Guardians, Dave Bautista's gone onto doing other mainstream projects like in Blade Runner 2049 and Spectre(007), as has more in active development as we speak. Are those parts as big as Drax? Not quite, but they have enough meat to them that will make him stand out in those. And before you say "At least Paquin and Ashmore are better actors!" not the point I'm making here, Drax has helped Bautista's career but neither Rogue or Ice Man helped Paquin or Ashmore's careers. Which just shows how underused glossed over their characters were in the movies they appeared in and that Fox and Singer didn't give them enough to do other than be mopey teens who can do this and that but doesn't serve for the "wow" factor much or at all. You shouldn't humor him. I know I shouldn't, but part of me is intrigued for their response, course if they don't respond to it I guess you can say they decided to throw in the towel with this debate.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2017 22:55:36 GMT
I know I shouldn't, but part of me is intrigued for their response, course if they don't respond to it I guess you can say they decided to throw in the towel with this debate. I'm dubious that there's a debate at all. I don't think Tristan actually has a disdain for the MCU or its fans. I think he's just a douchey troll who loves to get reactions. That's why I've blocked him.
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Post by Grabthar's Hammer on Sept 4, 2017 23:17:36 GMT
Rocket Raccoon. He's not even funny. His jokes might make dumb little kids laugh, but mature people would never laugh at his unfunny jokes. I hate to say it but Star-Lord. I absolutely love Chris Pratt and GotG and Star-Lord.. but watching that Yondu scene made me realize that he's really not the best actor. I think he has it in him to be better but for right now he needs to step it up.
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Post by barkingbaphomet on Sept 5, 2017 3:25:12 GMT
Iron Man
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Post by sdrew13163 on Sept 5, 2017 4:23:38 GMT
Probably Drax.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2017 4:52:26 GMT
Overrated? I wouldnt use that word but the MCU must be careful not to turn RDJ into MCU's Hugh Jackman. I really hope they kill Tony Stark in IW.
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Post by Tristan's Journal on Sept 5, 2017 6:18:00 GMT
you should humor yourself first on how you can claim: - that William Shakespeare "never wrote an original thing" considering all his original plays and his other oeuvre - or that alien germ life has been proven (lollol) but intelligent alien life cannot exist (lol), - or that DCEU Superman is an Ayn Rand character (selfish, egoistic) when really he helps without reward and sacrifices himself? - that no Affleck will ever win Best Actor when one just did...? etc I humor you: Because you are an uneducated imbecile. Simple.
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Post by Tristan's Journal on Sept 5, 2017 6:26:48 GMT
I know I shouldn't, but part of me is intrigued for their response, course if they don't respond to it I guess you can say they decided to throw in the towel with this debate. I'm dubious that there's a debate at all. I don't think Tristan actually has a disdain for the MCU or its fans. I think he's just a douchey troll who loves to get reactions. That's why I've blocked him. I advise leave the thinking to your ponies, its not your forte really. No you "blocked" me because you are a coward and an uneducated poser unable to answer me checking on your obtuse claims (see above). The raptor never pays his dues.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2017 10:20:47 GMT
I'm dubious that there's a debate at all. I don't think Tristan actually has a disdain for the MCU or its fans. I think he's just a douchey troll who loves to get reactions. That's why I've blocked him. I advise leave the thinking to your ponies, its not your forte really. No you "blocked" me because you are a coward and an uneducated poser unable to answer me checking on your obtuse claims (see above). The raptor never pays his dues. Tristan, my question to you, are there raptors in Austria?
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Post by charzhino on Sept 5, 2017 12:10:13 GMT
Yeah, I'll take Drax, a character with an interesting backstory and personality that opens up plenty of storytelling opportunities that don't make me the viewer tire of watching him over one who is very much a watered down, bone-dry rendition of an otherwise fun character like Bobby Drake. Meanwhile, Dave Bautista, thanks to playing Drax, is getting much more career opportunities whereas Shawn Ashmore can hardly catch a break on TV, no thanks to playing Ice Man - A shame, because he's a good actor and could've done the character real justice, but Fox and Singer didn't allow that to happen did they? Guess you cannot answer that, because you don't read comics. Ok you will take the character steeped in slapstick and banal humour, thats fine. It is subjective afterall. Not sure why you're bringing the actor who plays each character into the argument though as if career prospects somehow is correlated to each characters likeability. Batista is a poor actor, he will not be around in any major role anytime soon. Whats the career opportunities for RDJ and Chris Evans and Chris Hemsworth looking like? Iceman in the Xfilms is a side character who still gets sufficient screen time, subplots that make sense and cool action scenes. Hes what Quicksilcer in the new trilogy is. Yes in the comics hes part of the OG team but no comic film is 100% source material proof. Hes essentially the Widow and Barton of the Avengers (who are involved in silly subplots and lamer action sequences)
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Post by formersamhmd on Sept 5, 2017 12:51:47 GMT
Yeah, I'll take Drax, a character with an interesting backstory and personality that opens up plenty of storytelling opportunities that don't make me the viewer tire of watching him over one who is very much a watered down, bone-dry rendition of an otherwise fun character like Bobby Drake. Meanwhile, Dave Bautista, thanks to playing Drax, is getting much more career opportunities whereas Shawn Ashmore can hardly catch a break on TV, no thanks to playing Ice Man - A shame, because he's a good actor and could've done the character real justice, but Fox and Singer didn't allow that to happen did they? Guess you cannot answer that, because you don't read comics. Ok you will take the character steeped in slapstick and banal humour, thats fine. It is subjective afterall. Not sure why you're bringing the actor who plays each character into the argument though as if career prospects somehow is correlated to each characters likeability. Batista is a poor actor, he will not be around in any major role anytime soon. Whats the career opportunities for RDJ and Chris Evans and Chris Hemsworth looking like? Iceman in the Xfilms is a side character who still gets sufficient screen time, subplots that make sense and cool action scenes. Hes what Quicksilcer in the new trilogy is. Yes in the comics hes part of the OG team but no comic film is 100% source material proof. Hes essentially the Widow and Barton of the Avengers (who are involved in silly subplots and lamer action sequences) Nah, Widow and Barton are given more than Iceman was. And Drax IS a better realized character than most of the X-Men in the movies.
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Post by Tristan's Journal on Sept 5, 2017 13:19:16 GMT
I advise leave the thinking to your ponies, its not your forte really. No you "blocked" me because you are a coward and an uneducated poser unable to answer me checking on your obtuse claims (see above). The raptor never pays his dues. Tristan, my question to you, are there raptors in Austria?
more than there are Kangaroos I'm afraid, the raptors are a ubiquitous, fast breeding and treacherous species that should have died out 65 million years ago, but somehow they have survived in the limbic system of our lizard brains (though raptors are not lizards zoologically speaking). People mistake them as mini-T-Rexes as depicted in Jurassic Park, in reality velociraptors were turkey sized feathered abominations. Most of them did not play with my little ponies or wear SailorMoon cosplay though, that is indeed weird for a raptor, and to my best knowledge is not to be found in Austria.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2017 13:24:42 GMT
Tristan, my question to you, are there raptors in Austria?
more than there are Kangaroos I'm afraid, the raptors are a ubiquitous, fast breeding and treacherous species that should have died out 65 million years ago, but somehow they have survived in the limbic system of our lizard brains (though raptors are not lizards zoologically speaking). People mistake them as mini-T-Rexes as depicted in Jurassic Park, in reality velociraptors were turkey sized feathered abominations. Most of them did not play with my little ponies or wear SailorMoon cosplay though, that is indeed weird for a raptor, and to my best knowledge is not to be found in Austria. So basically, its a weird animal?
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Post by Tristan's Journal on Sept 5, 2017 13:36:25 GMT
more than there are Kangaroos I'm afraid, the raptors are a ubiquitous, fast breeding and treacherous species that should have died out 65 million years ago, but somehow they have survived in the limbic system of our lizard brains (though raptors are not lizards zoologically speaking). People mistake them as mini-T-Rexes as depicted in Jurassic Park, in reality velociraptors were turkey sized feathered abominations. Most of them did not play with my little ponies or wear SailorMoon cosplay though, that is indeed weird for a raptor, and to my best knowledge is not to be found in Austria. So basically, its a weird animal? very weird, or have you ever met a raptor like that...? To be fair, I can enjoy the pony-adoring weirdness on some level, but it's his raptor-ness that tickles my hunting instinct.
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Post by Hauntedknight87 on Sept 5, 2017 13:49:25 GMT
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Post by taylorfirst1 on Sept 5, 2017 14:38:34 GMT
It might just be a matter of personal taste.
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Post by taylorfirst1 on Sept 5, 2017 14:40:29 GMT
Drax is a character written with the most cheesiest, most cringe-worthy lines in the whole of the MCU - and that itself takes a lotta effort. Portrayed by a incompetent actor who doesnt even have a fight scene in GotG2 even though his nickname is The Destroyer. Pretty sad you would take him over Bobby Drake whose more fleshed out and given a lot more useful stuff to do than someone who jokes about turds. But cant say im surprised, you will eat anything Feige $hits out. Yeah, I'll take Drax, a character with an interesting backstory and personality that opens up plenty of storytelling opportunities that don't make me the viewer tire of watching him over one who is very much a watered down, bone-dry rendition of an otherwise fun character like Bobby Drake. Meanwhile, Dave Bautista, thanks to playing Drax, is getting much more career opportunities whereas Shawn Ashmore can hardly catch a break on TV, no thanks to playing Ice Man - A shame, because he's a good actor and could've done the character real justice, but Fox and Singer didn't allow that to happen did they? Guess you cannot answer that, because you don't read comics. OT - Shawn Ashmore's twin brother stars on a show that just got renewed for a 4th and 5th season on SyFy.
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