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Post by JudgeJuryDredd on Sept 5, 2017 15:33:26 GMT
Yeah, I'll take Drax, a character with an interesting backstory and personality that opens up plenty of storytelling opportunities that don't make me the viewer tire of watching him over one who is very much a watered down, bone-dry rendition of an otherwise fun character like Bobby Drake. Meanwhile, Dave Bautista, thanks to playing Drax, is getting much more career opportunities whereas Shawn Ashmore can hardly catch a break on TV, no thanks to playing Ice Man - A shame, because he's a good actor and could've done the character real justice, but Fox and Singer didn't allow that to happen did they? Guess you cannot answer that, because you don't read comics. Ok you will take the character steeped in slapstick and banal humour, thats fine. It is subjective afterall. Not sure why you're bringing the actor who plays each character into the argument though as if career prospects somehow is correlated to each characters likeability. Batista is a poor actor, he will not be around in any major role anytime soon. Whats the career opportunities for RDJ and Chris Evans and Chris Hemsworth looking like? Iceman in the Xfilms is a side character who still gets sufficient screen time, subplots that make sense and cool action scenes. Hes what Quicksilcer in the new trilogy is. Yes in the comics hes part of the OG team but no comic film is 100% source material proof. Hes essentially the Widow and Barton of the Avengers (who are involved in silly subplots and lamer action sequences) RDJ became A-list again thanks to Iron Man and went on to playing Sherlock Holmes, Hemsworth's been the lead in several mainstream films since playing Thor, Evans is enjoying success in the indie market when he's not playing Cap like with Gifted and Snowpiercer. Dave Bautista was picked to play a henchman in a Daniel Craig James Bond film by Sam Mendes after playing Drax, he's part of the ensemble casts for Escape Plan 2 and 3, he has a role in Blade Runner 2049, is going to be The Kurgan in the Highlander reboot if it ever gets off the ground, and he's now working on an adaptation of Valiant comic adaptation Eternal Warrior as the titular character. Bautista's no thespian, but he's getting better with every film he's in and if he's good enough for Werner Herzog then he must have some potential to grow as an actor, and if not for his filmography his career in the ring will keep him fresh and popular. Ice Man as portrayed in the X-Men movies is not a scene stealer like Widow and Barton in The Avengers, nor is he even close to Quicksilver is in that regard either, he's just "there". Where in any of the films he's appeared in deliver the impression that he's a larger than life, cocky, energetic youth who likes to use his powers when he's not in action? I can't for the life of me recall, perhaps if they did that he would've been far more memorable of a character. |
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Post by JudgeJuryDredd on Sept 5, 2017 15:34:56 GMT
Yeah, I'll take Drax, a character with an interesting backstory and personality that opens up plenty of storytelling opportunities that don't make me the viewer tire of watching him over one who is very much a watered down, bone-dry rendition of an otherwise fun character like Bobby Drake. Meanwhile, Dave Bautista, thanks to playing Drax, is getting much more career opportunities whereas Shawn Ashmore can hardly catch a break on TV, no thanks to playing Ice Man - A shame, because he's a good actor and could've done the character real justice, but Fox and Singer didn't allow that to happen did they? Guess you cannot answer that, because you don't read comics. OT - Shawn Ashmore's twin brother stars on a show that just got renewed for a 4th and 5th season on SyFy. Well at least his brother's doing good. |
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barkingbaphomet
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all backlit and creepysmoking
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Post by barkingbaphomet on Sept 5, 2017 16:03:55 GMT
Dave Bautista ... is going to be The Kurgan in the Highlander reboot if it ever gets off the ground i... hadn't heard that. goddamn it. |
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Post by Tristan's Journal on Sept 5, 2017 16:44:48 GMT
I know I shouldn't, but part of me is intrigued for their response, course if they don't respond to it I guess you can say they decided to throw in the towel with this debate. first misconception is that it's a debate. You throw in so many fallacies and deflections that any debate becomes futile: Just like your bold statement above is just a straw man. Let us take your last post to me (regarding overrated MCU charaters) as an example:
- Tu quoque fallacy: when I am stating my personal most overrated MCU character you cannot defend that MCU character (ie SentitiveNippleDrax) by pointing fingers at random other characters from a random other franchise (...Rogue and Iceman!) and say they are worse. It's not the point. These are not even similar character types btw.
- Ad absurdum argument/Shifting Goalposts: Saying that one actor allegedly gets more jobs than another actor from another franchise is utterly besides the point when discussing which MCU character is overrated - we do not discuss actor careers here.
- Deflection/Personal Incredulity: Then you go on how important Nipples is in the GotG movies, and how unimortant Rogue is compared. This is a deflection as this is not our topic.......Apart from that, it's nerdish nonsense: Rogue was the central mutant, and the female lead in X1's story (because of her powers and backstory) which cannot be claimed in the least about Nipples. And no, the fact that he is famous for his huge turds is not relevant either here...
And this is just the Nipples part. All this comes across as you being very obsessed with and biased against the X-Men franchise (which is not discussed here). Essentially, you seem like a more civilized, polite and eloquent version of the weirdraptor (without the ponies and the foul mouthed meltdowns). And that is not a compliment, dude! 
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Post by Jedan Archer on Sept 5, 2017 19:15:28 GMT
I'm gonna go with Ironman. He is still very popular, isn't he? Why? He started out great, but then lost his plot. And the actor seems burned out and bored beyond recognition, only phoning it in for the pay check. The last Spiderman with him was a derivative bore of a movie, more like a TV pilot.
Speaking of which, Spiderman might traditionally be even more overrated than Iron. Jeez, they ran out of ideas with these Spidermovies after the first one it seems. Just sayin...
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2017 19:33:06 GMT
Black Widow easily. She's a boring cliche of a character that doesn't even have consistent characterization between movies. An Avenger with no superpowers has no place in this many movies anyway.
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Post by JudgeJuryDredd on Sept 7, 2017 4:55:14 GMT
I know I shouldn't, but part of me is intrigued for their response, course if they don't respond to it I guess you can say they decided to throw in the towel with this debate. first misconception is that it's a debate. You throw in so many fallacies and deflections that any debate becomes futile: Just like your bold statement above is just a straw man. Let us take your last post to me (regarding overrated MCU charaters) as an example:
- Tu quoque fallacy: when I am stating my personal most overrated MCU character you cannot defend that MCU character (ie SentitiveNippleDrax) by pointing fingers at random other characters from a random other franchise (...Rogue and Iceman!) and say they are worse. It's not the point. These are not even similar character types btw.
- Ad absurdum argument/Shifting Goalposts: Saying that one actor allegedly gets more jobs than another actor from another franchise is utterly besides the point when discussing which MCU character is overrated - we do not discuss actor careers here.
- Deflection/Personal Incredulity: Then you go on how important Nipples is in the GotG movies, and how unimortant Rogue is compared. This is a deflection as this is not our topic.......Apart from that, it's nerdish nonsense: Rogue was the central mutant, and the female lead in X1's story (because of her powers and backstory) which cannot be claimed in the least about Nipples. And no, the fact that he is famous for his huge turds is not relevant either here...
And this is just the Nipples part. All this comes across as you being very obsessed with and biased against the X-Men franchise (which is not discussed here). Essentially, you seem like a more civilized, polite and eloquent version of the weirdraptor (without the ponies and the foul mouthed meltdowns). And that is not a compliment, dude!
- Doesn't matter if the characters are similar or not, the topic isn't about a specific character but characters in general, all Marvel related. - Discussions spread off into sub-discussions all the time, this was no different. - It isn't, since the debate at the time was lasting effect on screen. That Rogue was the de facto female lead in the first X-Men while Drax was not in his first movie is pretty telling on who had bigger impact on audiences, Paquin never became a hot sell after X-Men, neither did Ashmore as Ice Man, Bautista's gotten more attention from playing a character like Drax which is really disappointing when you consider that Ashmore and Paquin were better actors and were playing better characters - but the filmmakers didn't utilize them nearly as well as they should've, and thus they made no impact on anybody. Rogue's role in the first X-Men is fairly forgettable, as soon as Logan enters the picture its his show and stays that way. - Yes, I brought up the X-Men despite not being relevant to the debate, its no different than what you and your buddies have done on other threads. |
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Post by darkpast on Sept 7, 2017 5:33:09 GMT
anybody from Guardians
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Post by Tristan's Journal on Sept 7, 2017 8:30:17 GMT
:
- Doesn't matter if the characters are similar or not, the topic isn't about a specific character but characters in general, all Marvel related. - Discussions spread off into sub-discussions all the time, this was no different. - It isn't, since the debate at the time was lasting effect on screen. That Rogue was the de facto female lead in the first X-Men while Drax was not in his first movie is pretty telling on who had bigger impact on audiences, Paquin never became a hot sell after X-Men, neither did Ashmore as Ice Man, Bautista's gotten more attention from playing a character like Drax which is really disappointing when you consider that Ashmore and Paquin were better actors and were playing better characters - but the filmmakers didn't utilize them nearly as well as they should've, and thus they made no impact on anybody. Rogue's role in the first X-Men is fairly forgettable, as soon as Logan enters the picture its his show and stays that way. - Yes, I brought up the X-Men despite not being relevant to the debate, its no different than what you and your buddies have done on other threads. In the following I just discuss formal debating logic, not contents. see the special pleading and contradiction between these statements.
see the tu-quoque deflection. So if I have raped sb, it makes it less wrong if you it do too? And do you have any evidence that I personally did bring up X-Men or anything not relevant in the past? And who are my buddies? ´
That is true, but not the point. The point was that your argument was fallacious and thus invalid.
In simpler terms: When the OP topic is about most overrated character in MCU, and I name MCU character Y, you cannot validly debate this by stating that some random X-men characters (from another franchise) are even worse.
Thus my silence to your response which you explicitly misrepresented as tacid approval of your points (another fallacy: straw man, unwarranted projection).QED
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Post by Tristan's Journal on Sept 7, 2017 9:37:16 GMT
 they suck raccoon turd and give me senitive nipples. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2017 10:03:28 GMT
they suck raccoon turd and give me senitive nipples. Das ist richtig geil. |
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Post by Tristan's Journal on Sept 7, 2017 10:07:06 GMT
they suck raccoon turd and give me senitive nipples. Das ist richtig geil.  Wenn Du das sagst, respektiere ich das...wir können immer über die Waschbär-Scheisse reden, aber sensible Brustwarzen, das ist mir zu viel... |
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