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Post by ArArArchStanton on Sept 5, 2017 12:27:56 GMT
Zod is a good villain. He's perfectly fine for an origin story and for who the character is. He is also leaps and bounds better than any other DCEU villain so far. I think Loki is better and he's about even with Vulture and Ego, but he's still good. He felt like a legitimate threat to me and he had a menacing screen presence. Man of Steel as a whole still baffles me. I watch it and I just can't get a grip on how I feel about it. One moment I love it, the next, not so much. I think Zod elevates this movie and I really kinda like it again after not liking it so much for a while. In all seriousness, I know exactly why you feel that way.
It's because the writing is illogical in many cases. The atmosphere plot is a square peg in a round hole, Lois is just plugged in wherever they need her without logical reasons to be in the places she's at, and scenes like Tornadocide just make absolutely no sense at all. That scene in particular is a classic example of a writer who doesn't know what they're doing just forcing events into a preconceived outcome. Never once did somebody ask if the tornado scene would make sense for Jonathan's death, but rather they just insisted they were doing it.
As a result you are battling with a good aesthetic that feels like it should be a good movie, but you also sense that it's written in a very amateurish manner.
Zod himself didn't feel threatening to me because I didn't buy the actor for a second.
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Post by Hauntedknight87 on Sept 5, 2017 13:57:42 GMT
General Zod is a more deep and complex villain than any villain in the MCU. He has the best motivations as a villain, he was genetically bred to protect Krypton and its people. He had no choice. He wasn't hellbent on Power, or World domination, he was motivated to rebuild his planet and breed his people so he would have a purpose again. A man damned to a black hole, all because he was doing what he was bred to do, then he finds out the man with the codex won't help him rebuild his home planet? He then wants to use him to rebuild his planet. It's a real motivation and ends like a Greek Tragedy. In truth, Zod thinks Kal-El is a traitor and villain. He sees Humans as aliens. He's the hero in his eyes. Man of Steel is better than people realize. The way he's written and the screen time he's gotten, he might as well been in the MCU.
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Post by taylorfirst1 on Sept 5, 2017 14:16:36 GMT
It might just be a matter of personal taste.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2017 16:12:20 GMT
General Zod is a more deep and complex villain than any villain in the MCU. He has the best motivations as a villain, he was genetically bred to protect Krypton and its people. He had no choice. So he has no choice in anything he does, just pre-programmed motivations. Wow, how deep. No, what gives him depth is his character's motivations. 90% of cbm villains want to take over the world, or universe, or have power, or something bad happened to them as a kid and they now are misunderstood bad guys who were made that way. Zod is different in the sense that he believes what he is doing is right. He truly has the motivation to secure his race of people (who wouldn't?) even if it means turning on his OWN COUNSEL of elders and ordering a coupe during the end of their world. Even if it means killing the only remaining Kryponian and building a new Krypton atop his bones, even if it means killing humans and using our planet to start over, it isn't that he wants to be a leader, or have power, or take over the world, he is trying to be the SAVIOR of Krypton and he is misguided. This type of villain gives depth to the hero. Kal-El has to choose between his genetic roots or his human side. He ultimately decides Krypton had its chance and Earth deserves to have one. It's an unselfish choice and a hard choice. My only beef in MoS is I would have cut about 1/3 of the action and added more moments with Kal/Zod having dilemma about their choices.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2017 19:31:37 GMT
If we are including the tv shows then I put Killgrave and Kingpin above and beyond Zod. Movies only. TV series gives characters time to develop over a long period of time. For Example, Lex on SMALLVILLE. Nope. You don't get to make that call.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2017 19:32:20 GMT
So he has no choice in anything he does, just pre-programmed motivations. Wow, how deep. No, what gives him depth is his character's motivations. 90% of cbm villains want to take over the world, or universe, or have power, or something bad happened to them as a kid and they now are misunderstood bad guys who were made that way. Zod is different in the sense that he believes what he is doing is right. He truly has the motivation to secure his race of people (who wouldn't?) even if it means turning on his OWN COUNSEL of elders and ordering a coupe during the end of their world. Even if it means killing the only remaining Kryponian and building a new Krypton atop his bones, even if it means killing humans and using our planet to start over, it isn't that he wants to be a leader, or have power, or take over the world, he is trying to be the SAVIOR of Krypton and he is misguided. This type of villain gives depth to the hero. Kal-El has to choose between his genetic roots or his human side. He ultimately decides Krypton had its chance and Earth deserves to have one. It's an unselfish choice and a hard choice. My only beef in MoS is I would have cut about 1/3 of the action and added more moments with Kal/Zod having dilemma about their choices. He is different in no way, shape, or form. Stop proving to the world that your father should have worn a condom.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2017 19:32:45 GMT
Movies only. TV series gives characters time to develop over a long period of time. For Example, Lex on SMALLVILLE. Nope. You don't get to make that call. It's my thread, I make the rules to my discussion. He was asking if TV show villain or Movie villains count only according to MY question. So yes, I DO get to make that call.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2017 19:34:16 GMT
Nope. You don't get to make that call. It's my thread, I make the rules to my discussion. He was asking if TV show villain or Movie villains count only according to MY question. So yes, I DO get to make that call. Then watch as I proceed to defy you. Good luck stopping me.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2017 19:48:18 GMT
So Dr. Kilgrave and the other Netflix villains especially are much better than Zod.
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Post by formersamhmd on Sept 5, 2017 22:46:55 GMT
So he has no choice in anything he does, just pre-programmed motivations. Wow, how deep. No, what gives him depth is his character's motivations. 90% of cbm villains want to take over the world, or universe, or have power, or something bad happened to them as a kid and they now are misunderstood bad guys who were made that way. Zod is different in the sense that he believes what he is doing is right. Loki had the same motivation in Thor 1, he did what he did because he honestly thought it was right.
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Post by taylorfirst1 on Sept 6, 2017 0:29:27 GMT
Villains always think they're right.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2017 3:14:19 GMT
Zod doesn't joke around that automatically makes him better than 2/3rds of MCU Disney villains. Joking around doesn't matter he was still only a decent villain. I like how you try to say Disney villains as if it's a bad thing when many animated Disney movies have had great villains.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2017 3:25:33 GMT
Zod doesn't joke around that automatically makes him better than 2/3rds of MCU Disney villains. Joking around doesn't matter he was still only a decent villain. I like how you try to say Disney villains as if it's a bad thing when many animated Disney movies have had great villains. Yes, fans of the other superhero film series do seem to have developed an allergy to the very idea of humor, haven't they? Apparently, a film is only good if everyone in it is miserable and frowning all the time.
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Post by JudgeJuryDredd on Sept 8, 2017 20:01:43 GMT
If we are including the tv shows then I put Killgrave and Kingpin above and beyond Zod. Movies only. TV series gives characters time to develop over a long period of time. For Example, Lex on SMALLVILLE. Then why say "all" then? "All" implies everything - film AND television.
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Post by taylorfirst1 on Sept 8, 2017 20:27:31 GMT
Joking around doesn't matter he was still only a decent villain. I like how you try to say Disney villains as if it's a bad thing when many animated Disney movies have had great villains. Yes, fans of the other superhero film series do seem to have developed an allergy to the very idea of humor, haven't they? Apparently, a film is only good if everyone in it is miserable and frowning all the time. I put it this way in another thread. In BvS, Batman and Superman saved a world that no one would ever want to live in.
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Sept 8, 2017 20:42:15 GMT
Yes, fans of the other superhero film series do seem to have developed an allergy to the very idea of humor, haven't they? Apparently, a film is only good if everyone in it is miserable and frowning all the time. I put it this way in another thread. In BvS, Batman and Superman saved a world that no one would ever want to live in. That's actually a fantastic way to say it. The MCU feels alive and quite fun.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2017 23:22:08 GMT
Yes, fans of the other superhero film series do seem to have developed an allergy to the very idea of humor, haven't they? Apparently, a film is only good if everyone in it is miserable and frowning all the time. I put it this way in another thread. In BvS, Batman and Superman saved a world that no one would ever want to live in. ENGRAVE THIS IN STONE IMMEDIATELY!!!!!!!!!!
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Post by Tristan's Journal on Sept 9, 2017 16:12:32 GMT
^^ lol, enter the League of The Butthurt Gentlemen (and one dumbraptor). I tell ya all, one needs to travel a great many forums to find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. I would not ever want to live in world save from these clowns.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2017 13:37:07 GMT
I would say Arkham Villains > DCEU and MCU Villains. The Arkham villains are by far the closest versions we have seen to the comic books and I loved their versions of the Joker, Scarecrow, The Riddler, Clayface, Killer Croc, Poison Ivy, Bane, Two Face, Hugo Strange, the Penguin, Lady Shiva, Deathstroke, Anarky, Professor Pyg, Harley Quinn, Firefly, Red Hood/Arkham Knight (even though it wasn't surprising), Solomon Grundy, Ra's al Ghul, Victor Zsaz, Mr Freeze, Mad Hatter, the Calendar Man, Hush etc more than any of the movie and TV adaptions we have had so far and I am hoping we get one more Arkham game so we can get some of the villains who were missing but mentioned in the games like Great White Shark, Prometheus, Ratcatcher, Killer Moth, the Ventriloquist, Nocturna, Maxie Zeus and the Court of Owls along with the Spoiler and Orphan as playable characters.
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Post by Jedan Archer on Sept 11, 2017 9:45:15 GMT
Kinda agree, but that ain't saying much. DCEU and MCU have kind of just created weak rogues, Zod may be the best of the bunch though.
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