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Post by Aj_June on Sept 8, 2017 10:01:16 GMT
Let this begin! Open up yourself haters.
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on Sept 8, 2017 10:40:37 GMT
Get him down from that throne, he has no business sitting there
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on Sept 8, 2017 12:26:32 GMT
Ned Stark is the "brave" soldier type. He is "brave" in the derided sense the word takes in the German language (as in "Der brave Soldat Schwejk", who tells the officer he gets palpitation when running up the stairs but it's not so bad because war takes place on the ground floor, after all) or in French when people say "il est bien brave" to excuse lack of intelligence by a good nature: well meaning and not too smart. Ygritte will say the same of Jon Snow: "You're brave, stupid but brave". Ned Stark is not stupid, though. He only makes one real mistake of trusting Littlefinger after rejecting his offer. Everything else is conscious risk taking and reflects his soldier personality. He accepts the risk of Targaryens trying to invade with Dothraki, telling Robert they'll throw them back into the sea. He accepts the risk of Cersei's wrath, rejects Renly's offer of help and most importantly, he chooses war for a principle instead of arrangement. Ned Stark is not only the man with a sword to whom every problem looks like a potential opponent in a fight. He is a man who will pay any price without questioning the purpose. He's learned to see men die around him and to accept his own demise long ago; he will not go against his principles to avoid it. The lives of others do not count for him, unless they are those of his daughters. Ned Stark has learned to think what others told him, to accept prices others set. Ned Stark is a good dog.
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Sept 8, 2017 12:30:31 GMT
Where is the option for me to check that states: "Near Stannis level of evil" ?
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Troyal1
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Post by Troyal1 on Sept 8, 2017 15:51:33 GMT
He killed the guy trying to warn them about the WW. He's a prick
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Post by movielover on Sept 8, 2017 15:55:35 GMT
He was a great character, and I am his fan. ...I saw him more as naive than a blithering idiot.
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on Sept 8, 2017 16:00:44 GMT
He killed the guy trying to warn them about the WW. He's a prick This was another clear hint the story gave us. Any normal person would have at least questioned the guy (Stannis: "find out the truth and then hang them"). Instead of that we are served with reckless observance of the rule together with a blatant prejudice ("a madman sees what he sees"). Coming from the would be "main character" and sympathy holder, it should have been worrying the audience and it was meant to.
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Sept 8, 2017 18:21:48 GMT
He was a great character, and I am his fan. ...I saw him more as naive than a blithering idiot. Not only is he not naïve, but he knew how the game was played from the beginning.
He was just out tricked by Robert's sudden death.
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Post by Nightman on Sept 8, 2017 20:33:37 GMT
I'll never forgive him for executing Lady. Besides that, he should have been smarter than he was, considering his upbringing.
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on Sept 9, 2017 2:23:40 GMT
He was a great character, and I am his fan. ...I saw him more as naive than a blithering idiot. Not only is he not naïve, but he knew how the game was played from the beginning.
He was just out tricked by Robert's sudden death.
Agreed. He disliked the game and was willing to take enormous risks to stay out of it. Another idealist who got himself and his followers killed.
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Post by Aj_June on Sept 9, 2017 11:50:56 GMT
He killed the guy trying to warn them about the WW. He's a prick He killed the guy trying to warn them about the WW. He's a prick This was another clear hint the story gave us. Any normal person would have at least questioned the guy (Stannis: "find out the truth and then hang them"). Instead of that we are served with reckless observance of the rule together with a blatant prejudice ("a madman sees what he sees"). Coming from the would be "main character" and sympathy holder, it should have been worrying the audience and it was meant to. He was just following the law of the kingdom. Initially even an intelligent man such as Tyrion Lannister laughed on the concept of WW and such stuffs. More than that Night's watch management had sent him for execution by labelling him as a traitor and coward. All Lord Stark did was what was required by law. Where is the option for me to check that states: "Near Stannis level of evil" ? How exactly was he evil? He was a brave and kind man. He had a strong character and adhered to higher standards. He spoke against killing of Targaryen kids and was even willing to protect Cersei's kids. You repay him by calling him evil?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2017 15:26:58 GMT
Great character, one of my favorites from the show.
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Post by bluerisk on Sept 9, 2017 19:09:14 GMT
Too naive, and he put his family - most of all Sansa - in a horrible situation. Robb and Cathelyn died, but they fucked it up on their own (trusting Littlefinger about the dagger, abducting Tyrion, breaking the oath to the Frey, treating his mother and Lord Karstark by double standards), but Sansa and Arya were dragged to King's Landing far off from home and safety; and Sansa was told bullshit 24/7 since she was a little girl: be a obidient wife, a mother, back your husband no matter what etc. pp.
Arya was allowed more freedom for she was younger and not the first one to be married off to a powerful Lord in order to increase the power and influence of the house. But Sansa was prepped in this very way by her parents.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2017 21:45:08 GMT
I am in indifferent to Lord Stark
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Marendil
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Post by Marendil on Sept 10, 2017 20:53:39 GMT
He's a great character, those looking for paragons of virtue are watching the wrong show though.
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Sept 11, 2017 14:30:05 GMT
Aj_JuneHe was not kind. Brave is a relative term and from my view he was a coward He did not protect Cersei's kids. He was going to tell Robert the moment he got back ad was merely telling her to leave and don't look back which made him an idiot.
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on Sept 11, 2017 14:41:57 GMT
Aj_June Brave is a relative term and from my view he was a coward What makes you think he was a coward?
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Sept 11, 2017 15:08:04 GMT
He was scared of too many things to be brave.
Most importantly, he was completely afraid of discussing the truth in all its forms to any person. No one understood him, knew him, or knew what game he played.
I think by the end of his story, the only one we will find he trusted was his sister, which will be ironic considering the disdain he had for Jaime & Cersei.
Of course he probably wasn't boinking his sister, but still she's the only one he kept his word to. Everyone else, he betrayed in one form or another.
All we know now is that he has a code of honor that he doesn't hold to himself.
He's a horrible person now until the story tries to warp him into something heroic.
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on Sept 11, 2017 15:44:19 GMT
I don't see how he was scared. He knew his sister's son would be a pain in his best friend's arse, knew his friend to be impulsively violent and just decided to bury the whole thing so no one would ever find out. His wife's or his "bastard son's" happiness were not relevant.
I don't see how he disdained Jaime and Cersei either. He never said so. What he disdained in Jaime was his "serving the Mad King as long as it was safe". In other words, he disdained Jaime for not throwing his life away. Here again, we have the good soldier valuing self-sacrifice, his, Jaime's, his wife's or his "son's".
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Sept 11, 2017 16:13:24 GMT
I don't see how he was scared. He knew his sister's son would be a pain in his best friend's arse, knew his friend to be impulsively violent and just decided to bury the whole thing so no one would ever find out. His wife's or his "bastard son's" happiness were not relevant. I don't see how he disdained Jaime and Cersei either. He never said so. What he disdained in Jaime was his "serving the Mad King as long as it was safe". In other words, he disdained Jaime for not throwing his life away. Here again, we have the good soldier valuing self-sacrifice, his, Jaime's, his wife's or his "son's". So if he's not a coward, then he is simply a horrible person.
I can accept the compromise.
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