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Post by kuatorises on Nov 9, 2017 20:25:36 GMT
The MCU should enjoy it whilst it lasts. The DCEU may be sick, but Thor is no Batman. Batman is just one film away from restoring his crown, no matter when it happens. MCU may win this battle, but it won’t win the war. , P but, fuck if it hasn't been one hell of a run. Hee hee hee... Um, yeah you can. one franchise has a proven track record of success, the other does not. The DCEU isn't even close to equaling, let alone surpassing the Marvel movies. |
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Post by formersamhmd on Nov 9, 2017 20:31:07 GMT
Says you, the characters are endearing enough to survive recasts now that they're more firmly in the public consciousness. I agree they are but only to a degree. Not enough to shake a couple of cinematic failures. We'll just have to wait and see. |
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Post by formersamhmd on Nov 9, 2017 20:31:46 GMT
If you can't accept that MCU still did it first, maybe. if you really believe it it's not a lie Or because it's fact. |
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Post by formersamhmd on Nov 9, 2017 20:33:13 GMT
There is literally a movie in theaters at this moment which disproves that statement. Thor 3. Not only did he survive 2 mediocre movies...he is now thriving despite never being established before those failures to build up a cushion. So obviously characters need good movies to thrive. That's no different for any of them. Batman could barely break 200 million after Batman and Robin. And Batman Begins is excellent so even a good movie is no guarantee. Uh...that's the point of a shared universe. No reason the movies SHOULDN'T take advantage of that. |
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Post by harpospoke on Nov 9, 2017 20:33:17 GMT
There is literally a movie in theaters at this moment which disproves that statement. Thor 3. Not only did he survive 2 mediocre movies...he is now thriving despite never being established before those failures to build up a cushion. So obviously characters need good movies to thrive. That's no different for any of them. Batman could barely break 200 million after Batman and Robin. And Batman Begins is excellent so even a good movie is no guarantee. Thor and Thor 2’s success was due largely to his role in the MCU. Take that away and I doubt the films would have been successful. But when I said that these characters couldn’t survive a couple of failures I mean after the current MCU popularity. Thor, Ant-Man and Dr Strange’s success is obviously propped up by their involvement in the MCU. Well of course if we take away the reasons your claim was wrong then you won't be wrong. Can we do that with Batman? Take away the years of comics and the 60s TV show and he would not be as successful. I know why Thor is able to do what you claimed a Marvel character couldn't do. |
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Post by harpospoke on Nov 9, 2017 20:39:42 GMT
Oh how convenient that you set a time limit that just happens to exclude the extra characters in BvS!  Never mind that BvS featured Batman...Superman....and Wonder Woman. Compared to CW's Capt America....Iron Man...and Spider-Man. That's how far Marvel has come. Now their B listers can beat the "holy trinity" in their very first appearance on film. Well it is true, Cyborg and Aquaman was in it for a few seconds and Flash 30 seconds more. Civil War had Black Widow, Falcon, Ant-man, Spider-man, Scarlet Witch, Vision etc for a decent amount of time in it. They were in the trailers and everything. I wouldn't really call them B Listers at this point. Once Captain America, Thor, Hulk and Iron Man were in a movie that grossed $1.5 billion they're as mainstream as they can be. Batman vs Superman also had bad reviews which affected it quite a lot. It would have outgrossed Civil War domestically if it was as good as that was. So now you are claiming Marvel characters are a big deal when it's convenient. Somehow all those characters are now bigger than the much lauded "holy trinity". Remember when DC fans claimed a movie with them would destroy everything in its path? I guess that claim didn't work out. Now they can't quit draw in the same crowds as Black Widow, Falcon, Ant-Man, Scarlet Witch, and Vision. ...Characters the average person on the street can't even name. DC fans will go see any DC movie regardless of reviews. Apparently WB doesn't even have to try. So the problem with that is opening weekend. $166,007,347 What was Civil War's opening weekend a few weeks later when demand for a "comic book team up movie" was not as high? $179,139,142 |
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Post by Tristan's Journal on Nov 9, 2017 20:54:04 GMT
if you really believe it it's not a lie - but a delusion. Lets play. Questions: 1. If the black guys were the leads in Cap 2, but not Cap, why is it that MCU greatly promote their first black lead with Black Catman then? Bc the MCU fans are stupid? 2. If the black males really were the leads in Cap 2: How does that agree with you claiming it's lazy writing when the hero is overshadowed and not the star of the film all others just plot devices? So I guess in Cap 2 like in Cap 3 really others were the leads and stars and Cap sidelined. 3. And finally where is a female black lead in all of this? In your fantasy that's where. You MCU fans are like little kids really, you just claim and make up stuff when it's convenient without any rhyme or reason. My amusement is manifold.  I like how you pretend anyone said " the leads" and then build your entire argument on that straw man. No...they were lead characters just like your Amanda Waller example. Got anything real? Should we start making up fake "accomplishments" for other movies? First Russian villain? Iron Man 2! Let me guess...Black Panther being the first ever CBM with an almost all black cast won't be included in these nebulous fake lists of "accomplishments", right? I like how clumsily you try to shift goalposts. My initial statement spoke about black male and female leads - that means THE leads of course, not black sidekicks of the lead. In SS two black actors were in the lead, in Cap 2 the black actors were sidekicks and support to the titular hero Cap. AND lest we forget you do not even claim to have a female black lead, lol. But I love the desperate denial and protest, it is so rewarding and amusing, like a angry doggie helplessly trapped and arrested in it's own leash. Only get this with MCU and Transformers fans.  |
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Post by formersamhmd on Nov 9, 2017 21:24:10 GMT
I like how you pretend anyone said " the leads" and then build your entire argument on that straw man. No...they were lead characters just like your Amanda Waller example. Got anything real? Should we start making up fake "accomplishments" for other movies? First Russian villain? Iron Man 2! Let me guess...Black Panther being the first ever CBM with an almost all black cast won't be included in these nebulous fake lists of "accomplishments", right? I like how clumsily you try to shift goalposts. My initial statement spoke about black male and female leads - that means THE leads of course, not black sidekicks of the lead. In SS two black actors were in the lead, in Cap 2 the black actors were sidekicks and support to the titular hero Cap. Amanda Waller wasn't the lead of anything, and SS was more an ensemble piece. So Smith shared the lead with a White Woman...meaning the film isn't any different from "Virtuosity". |
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Post by Jedan Archer on Nov 9, 2017 21:41:08 GMT
I like how clumsily you try to shift goalposts. My initial statement spoke about black male and female leads - that means THE leads of course, not black sidekicks of the lead. In SS two black actors were in the lead, in Cap 2 the black actors were sidekicks and support to the titular hero Cap. Amanda Waller wasn't the lead of anything, and SS was more an ensemble piece. So Smith shared the lead with a White Woman...meaning the film isn't any different from "Virtuosity". That's wrong, champ. Do a word count and watch again! Smith and Davis were clearly the main leads in this. Just not the titular characters. Same with the main antagonist, just because this film was crawling with bad guys that doesn't mean Enchantress was not the villain. Or if that is easier for you to comprehend: MCU-Guardians being an ensemble piece but Starlord still being the in the lead. Nuff said. |
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Post by scabab on Nov 9, 2017 22:09:46 GMT
Well it is true, Cyborg and Aquaman was in it for a few seconds and Flash 30 seconds more. Civil War had Black Widow, Falcon, Ant-man, Spider-man, Scarlet Witch, Vision etc for a decent amount of time in it. They were in the trailers and everything. I wouldn't really call them B Listers at this point. Once Captain America, Thor, Hulk and Iron Man were in a movie that grossed $1.5 billion they're as mainstream as they can be. Batman vs Superman also had bad reviews which affected it quite a lot. It would have outgrossed Civil War domestically if it was as good as that was. So now you are claiming Marvel characters are a big deal when it's convenient. Somehow all those characters are now bigger than the much lauded "holy trinity". Remember when DC fans claimed a movie with them would destroy everything in its path? I guess that claim didn't work out. Now they can't quit draw in the same crowds as Black Widow, Falcon, Ant-Man, Scarlet Witch, and Vision. ...Characters the average person on the street can't even name. DC fans will go see any DC movie regardless of reviews. Apparently WB doesn't even have to try. So the problem with that is opening weekend. $166,007,347 What was Civil War's opening weekend a few weeks later when demand for a "comic book team up movie" was not as high? $179,139,142 Civil War wasn't just a Black Widow, Falcon, Ant-man, Scarlet Witch and Vision movie though. They costarred in a movie that was about Captain America and Iron Man. Everyone knows who those two are characters. It also had Spider-man, who is as well known as Batman and Superman. They had almost the entire Avengers cast in that movie except for Thor and Hulk but they made up for that with Spider-man, Black Panther and Ant-man. Wonder Woman is well known but she's never had a movie so hadn't proved to be a box office draw or anything. Fame doesn't equate to success as Deadpool showed. As for their opening weekends the two were very close. BvS actually had a better opening day but of course it was affected by negative reviews from beforehand and negative reception from fans. So if that movie had actually been good then yeah it would easily have outgrossed Civil War. It didn't because it was a poor movie. |
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Post by formersamhmd on Nov 9, 2017 23:16:19 GMT
Smith and Davis were clearly the main leads in this. Nope, ensemble. Doesn't mean she wasn't a horrible villain... If Smith is a black lead in SS, then Gamora should count for being played by a black actress. |
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Post by harpospoke on Nov 10, 2017 15:58:10 GMT
I like how you pretend anyone said " the leads" and then build your entire argument on that straw man. No...they were lead characters just like your Amanda Waller example. Got anything real? Should we start making up fake "accomplishments" for other movies? First Russian villain? Iron Man 2! Let me guess...Black Panther being the first ever CBM with an almost all black cast won't be included in these nebulous fake lists of "accomplishments", right? I like how clumsily you try to shift goalposts. My initial statement spoke about black male and female leads - that means THE leads of course, not black sidekicks of the lead. In SS two black actors were in the lead, in Cap 2 the black actors were sidekicks and support to the titular hero Cap. AND lest we forget you do not even claim to have a female black lead, lol. Again...Amanda Waller is not " the lead" so nice try. She is the Nick Fury of that movie. So if you are going to count her as some kind of nebulous "accomplishment" then Winter Soldier also "counts". Not to mention the very first MCU movie....Iron Man featured a black actor in a major role there too. And of course the biggest bombshell of the movie came in the post credits...when Sam Jackson shows up. Nice try jumping back and forth on that one...but no. You are claiming Will Smith as if that is some kind of brave thing that DC did. The dude has been a star since the 90s. And as usual he just played the same character he usually plays...Will Smith. "Claiming a black female lead" is a great example of the silliness of this whole thing. DC fans are so desperate for some kind of "win" that you are inventing fake "accomplishments". Amazing. Marvel beat DC to "first Russian villain" I guess. We're all pretending to be "progressive" now as if that is a real thing. Some kind of attempt to divert attention away from the fact that Marvel created the shared universe idea that DCU is now copying I guess. We are supposed to be impressed that DC finally made a WW movie even though they've had the ability to do that for decades? Yay? How very "progressive". |
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Post by harpospoke on Nov 10, 2017 15:58:39 GMT
So now you are claiming Marvel characters are a big deal when it's convenient. Somehow all those characters are now bigger than the much lauded "holy trinity". Remember when DC fans claimed a movie with them would destroy everything in its path? I guess that claim didn't work out. Now they can't quit draw in the same crowds as Black Widow, Falcon, Ant-Man, Scarlet Witch, and Vision. ...Characters the average person on the street can't even name. DC fans will go see any DC movie regardless of reviews. Apparently WB doesn't even have to try. So the problem with that is opening weekend. $166,007,347 What was Civil War's opening weekend a few weeks later when demand for a "comic book team up movie" was not as high? $179,139,142 Civil War wasn't just a Black Widow, Falcon, Ant-man, Scarlet Witch and Vision movie though. They costarred in a movie that was about Captain America and Iron Man. Everyone knows who those two are characters. It also had Spider-man, who is as well known as Batman and Superman. They had almost the entire Avengers cast in that movie except for Thor and Hulk but they made up for that with Spider-man, Black Panther and Ant-man. Wonder Woman is well known but she's never had a movie so hadn't proved to be a box office draw or anything. Fame doesn't equate to success as Deadpool showed. As for their opening weekends the two were very close. BvS actually had a better opening day but of course it was affected by negative reviews from beforehand and negative reception from fans. So if that movie had actually been good then yeah it would easily have outgrossed Civil War. It didn't because it was a poor movie. If your argument is that DC is making lousy movies then I agree. That's how things have changed over the past decade between the two companies. Civil War was a good movie and BvS was a bad movie. (Now comes the part where you need to claim CW was not very good) And I also agree that Marvel has done such a great job with their characters that they have actually changed the landscape where a DC fan has to admit Iron Man and Capt America are in the same conversation with Batman and Superman. Go back 10 years and that would be an outrageous thing to say. That's how dominant Marvel has been over the past decade. A DC fan thinks Thor and Hulk are a big draw now. Times have changed. And it's actually a thing that Marvel can "make up for no Thor and Hulk" with....Black Panther and Ant-Man. Naturally Black Panther has never been a movie before and is NOT well known...but a DC fan actually has to admit Marvel made him a draw while you downplay the appearance of Wonder Woman who WAS well known. That's how much better Marvel is doing. Or...this could be a case of you trying to downplay WW and overrate BP to make excuses for BvS. |
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Post by harpospoke on Nov 10, 2017 15:59:59 GMT
If Smith is a black lead in SS, then Gamora should count for being played by a black actress. Oh yeah...good point. Marvel with the fake accomplishment first!  |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2017 16:39:08 GMT
I like how clumsily you try to shift goalposts. My initial statement spoke about black male and female leads - that means THE leads of course, not black sidekicks of the lead. In SS two black actors were in the lead, in Cap 2 the black actors were sidekicks and support to the titular hero Cap. AND lest we forget you do not even claim to have a female black lead, lol. Again...Amanda Waller is not " the lead" so nice try. She is the Nick Fury of that movie. So if you are going to count her as some kind of nebulous "accomplishment" then Winter Soldier also "counts". Not to mention the very first MCU movie....Iron Man featured a black actor in a major role there too. And of course the biggest bombshell of the movie came in the post credits...when Sam Jackson shows up. Nice try jumping back and forth on that one...but no. You are claiming Will Smith as if that is some kind of brave thing that DC did. The dude has been a star since the 90s. And as usual he just played the same character he usually plays...Will Smith. "Claiming a black female lead" is a great example of the silliness of this whole thing. DC fans are so desperate for some kind of "win" that you are inventing fake "accomplishments". Amazing. Marvel beat DC to "first Russian villain" I guess. We're all pretending to be "progressive" now as if that is a real thing. Some kind of attempt to divert attention away from the fact that Marvel created the shared universe idea that DCU is now copying I guess. We are supposed to be impressed that DC finally made a WW movie even though they've had the ability to do that for decades? Yay? How very "progressive". Don't bother with Tristan Kool-Aide. He's complete delusional and a particular nasty troll. He still stalks my every move even though I've had him Blocked for most of the year. He has an odd obsession with me. |
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Post by formersamhmd on Nov 10, 2017 16:42:52 GMT
Again...Amanda Waller is not " the lead" so nice try. She is the Nick Fury of that movie. So if you are going to count her as some kind of nebulous "accomplishment" then Winter Soldier also "counts". Not to mention the very first MCU movie....Iron Man featured a black actor in a major role there too. And of course the biggest bombshell of the movie came in the post credits...when Sam Jackson shows up. Nice try jumping back and forth on that one...but no. You are claiming Will Smith as if that is some kind of brave thing that DC did. The dude has been a star since the 90s. And as usual he just played the same character he usually plays...Will Smith. "Claiming a black female lead" is a great example of the silliness of this whole thing. DC fans are so desperate for some kind of "win" that you are inventing fake "accomplishments". Amazing. Marvel beat DC to "first Russian villain" I guess. We're all pretending to be "progressive" now as if that is a real thing. Some kind of attempt to divert attention away from the fact that Marvel created the shared universe idea that DCU is now copying I guess. We are supposed to be impressed that DC finally made a WW movie even though they've had the ability to do that for decades? Yay? How very "progressive". Don't bother with Tristan Kool-Aide. He's complete delusional and a particular nasty troll. He still stalks my every move even though I've had him Blocked for most of the year. He has an odd obsession with me. Eh, he ain't worth rising to. Just do what I do and point out practically everything he hates about the MCU are in the DCEU and FoX-Men movies too. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2017 16:46:25 GMT
Don't bother with Tristan Kool-Aide. He's complete delusional and a particular nasty troll. He still stalks my every move even though I've had him Blocked for most of the year. He has an odd obsession with me. Eh, he ain't worth rising to. Just do what I do and point out practically everything he hates about the MCU are in the DCEU and FoX-Men movies too. Whereas Tristan just reuses the same old material every time like a broken record. |
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Post by DC-Fan on Nov 10, 2017 20:01:58 GMT
So now you are claiming Marvel characters are a big deal when it's convenient. Somehow all those characters are now bigger than the much lauded "holy trinity". Remember when DC fans claimed a movie with them would destroy everything in its path? I guess that claim didn't work out. Now they can't quit draw in the same crowds as Black Widow, Falcon, Ant-Man, Scarlet Witch, and Vision. ...Characters the average person on the street can't even name. DC fans will go see any DC movie regardless of reviews. Apparently WB doesn't even have to try. So the problem with that is opening weekend. $166,007,347 What was Civil War's opening weekend a few weeks later when demand for a "comic book team up movie" was not as high? $179,139,142 Civil War wasn't just a Black Widow, Falcon, Ant-man, Scarlet Witch and Vision movie though. They costarred in a movie that was about Captain America and Iron Man. It also had Spider-man That's why Civil War was really an Avengers movie and not a Captain America movie. |
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Post by formersamhmd on Nov 10, 2017 20:19:49 GMT
Civil War wasn't just a Black Widow, Falcon, Ant-man, Scarlet Witch and Vision movie though. They costarred in a movie that was about Captain America and Iron Man. It also had Spider-man That's why Civil War was really an Avengers movie and not a Captain America movie. No, it just didn't ignore the benefits of being in a shared universe. |
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Post by Tristan's Journal on Nov 11, 2017 12:27:23 GMT
That's why Civil War was really an Avengers movie and not a Captain America movie. No, it just didn't ignore the benefits of being in a shared universe. That's confirming his statement. |
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