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Post by formersamhmd on Nov 11, 2017 12:33:40 GMT
No, it just didn't ignore the benefits of being in a shared universe. That's confirming his statement. Saying that more characters appear in the movie aside from the title character doesn't suddenly mean the movie isn't about the Title character. It just means the movie didn't act like the title character existed in a vacuum. Logan had Xavier in it, does that automatically mean the movie was "Logan and Xavier" or just "Logan"? |
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Post by Tristan's Journal on Nov 11, 2017 12:37:11 GMT
That's confirming his statement. Saying that more characters appear in the movie aside from the title character doesn't suddenly mean the movie isn't about the Title character. It just means the movie didn't act like the title character existed in a vacuum. Logan had Xavier in it, does that automatically mean the movie was "Logan and Xavier" or just "Logan"? Cap and his story (Hydra) was brutally sidelined in his own last solo movie by two random origin stories and a idiotic Ironman mommy issue and faux buddy-death story. It's bad moviemaking. Film has not and will not age well because it's crap. |
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Post by formersamhmd on Nov 11, 2017 12:42:51 GMT
Cap and his story (Hydra) See, your problem is that you think Cap was only about Hydra. Hydra is just one aspect of his story, and Hydra is part of the whole MCU and not just something isolated to Cap. MCU isn't that limited. Seriously man, get with the times and stop thinking it's still the year 2000. So you hate foreshadowing. It was set up in Winter Soldier. It follows up on the Bucky story, and Bucky's been a part of things since Phase 1. No, this isn't WB. People said the same thing about Iron Man, Avengers, Guardians...guess what, nearly 10 years later and the MCU is still here. Still having guts no other CBM studio has been showing and still going strong. Now we live in a time where a Thor movie will be better received than the Justice League's first film. |
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Post by harpospoke on Nov 11, 2017 18:39:37 GMT
Civil War wasn't just a Black Widow, Falcon, Ant-man, Scarlet Witch and Vision movie though. They costarred in a movie that was about Captain America and Iron Man. It also had Spider-man That's why Civil War was really an Avengers movie and not a Captain America movie. Using the same standard...BvS was a Justice League movie. ....and was trounced by the Avengers movie. But of course a DC fan will do a complete 180 and claim it's a Capt America movie when it's convenient to claim other characters don't count: imdb2.freeforums.net/post/1056638 |
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Post by harpospoke on Nov 11, 2017 18:42:45 GMT
That's confirming his statement. Saying that more characters appear in the movie aside from the title character doesn't suddenly mean the movie isn't about the Title character. It just means the movie didn't act like the title character existed in a vacuum. Logan had Xavier in it, does that automatically mean the movie was "Logan and Xavier" or just "Logan"? And have you seen all the characters in The Dark Knight? How can that be a Batman movie? The Joker is a bigger character. Obviously the only way it can be about a single character is if that character is the only character in the movie.  |
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Post by scabab on Nov 11, 2017 18:52:16 GMT
That's why Civil War was really an Avengers movie and not a Captain America movie. Using the same standard...BvS was a Justice League movie. ....and was trounced by the Avengers movie. But of course a DC fan will do a complete 180 and claim it's a Capt America movie when it's convenient to claim other characters don't count: imdb2.freeforums.net/post/1056638It's not the same at all though. Civil War had the entire Avengers team involved. They were part of the plot with Scarlet Witch accidentally killing innocent people on a mission which is what set up the whole Civil War in the first place. Batman vs Superman didn't have the Justice League in it nor did the story have anything to do with them because they don't exist. |
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Post by formersamhmd on Nov 11, 2017 19:01:17 GMT
Using the same standard...BvS was a Justice League movie. ....and was trounced by the Avengers movie. But of course a DC fan will do a complete 180 and claim it's a Capt America movie when it's convenient to claim other characters don't count: imdb2.freeforums.net/post/1056638It's not the same at all though. Civil War had the entire Avengers team involved. They were part of the plot with Scarlet Witch accidentally killing innocent people on a mission which is what set up the whole Civil War in the first place. Batman vs Superman didn't have the Justice League in it nor did the story have anything to do with them because they don't exist. Uh, BvS had a lot to do with the Justice League. That movie is the impetus for their formation and we got cameos from all the future members.
Civil War had them, and then by the final Act it was all about Cap and his story.
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Post by harpospoke on Nov 11, 2017 19:13:43 GMT
Using the same standard...BvS was a Justice League movie. ....and was trounced by the Avengers movie. But of course a DC fan will do a complete 180 and claim it's a Capt America movie when it's convenient to claim other characters don't count: imdb2.freeforums.net/post/1056638It's not the same at all though. Civil War had the entire Avengers team involved. They were part of the plot with Scarlet Witch accidentally killing innocent people on a mission which is what set up the whole Civil War in the first place. Batman vs Superman didn't have the Justice League in it nor did the story have anything to do with them because they don't exist. Naturally having Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman in the same movie suddenly isn't a big deal. That's one of my favorite things DC fans do. The "holy trinity" is endlessly bragged about as being more "iconic" than any Marvel characters. ....But then having all three of them in the same movie for the very first time ever is downplayed while characters like Black Widow, Falcon, Ant-Man, and Black Widow are suddenly painted as box office juggernauts. That airport scene is apparently the whole movie to a DC fan. ..when it's convenient. That is until it's time to talk about being "progressive"...then you'll see the DC fan downplay Black Panther, Falcon, and Nick Fury. (always ignored that Black Panther was the first black hero and Falcon was the first African American hero in comics) You guys are funny. So is it possible for a DC fan to decide whether or not Batman, Superman, and Wonder Woman are a huge deal or a trio of underdogs to the impressive might of Ant-Man, Black Panther, Falcon, and Black Widow? Just depends on the situation I guess. |
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Post by scabab on Nov 11, 2017 19:57:26 GMT
It's not the same at all though. Civil War had the entire Avengers team involved. They were part of the plot with Scarlet Witch accidentally killing innocent people on a mission which is what set up the whole Civil War in the first place. Batman vs Superman didn't have the Justice League in it nor did the story have anything to do with them because they don't exist. Naturally having Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman in the same movie suddenly isn't a big deal. That's one of my favorite things DC fans do. The "holy trinity" is endlessly bragged about as being more "iconic" than any Marvel characters. ....But then having all three of them in the same movie for the very first time ever is downplayed while characters like Black Widow, Falcon, Ant-Man, and Black Widow are suddenly painted as box office juggernauts. That airport scene is apparently the whole movie to a DC fan. ..when it's convenient. That is until it's time to talk about being "progressive"...then you'll see the DC fan downplay Black Panther, Falcon, and Nick Fury. (always ignored that Black Panther was the first black hero and Falcon was the first African American hero in comics) You guys are funny. So is it possible for a DC fan to decide whether or not Batman, Superman, and Wonder Woman are a huge deal or a trio of underdogs to the impressive might of Ant-Man, Black Panther, Falcon, and Black Widow? Just depends on the situation I guess. Well Batman and Superman are the most iconic Superheroes, there's really no debating that. Wonder Woman would be up there as well, not as high as Spider-man but probably about on par with the Hulk. Them being iconic doesn't mean the movie has to automatically do better than anything else. Superman has struggled at the box office for decades. Wonder Woman hasn't even had a movie. They would be bigger box office draws than Ant-man, Black Widow and Falcon. Man of Steel made more money than Ant-man and the others don't even warrant a movie. Civil War was an entire Avengers movie, it has everyone in it. Captain America, Iron Man and Spider-man included. That was the draw. Considering how much money the Avengers movies made, then it was a given it was likely going to be bigger than Batman vs Superman. |
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Post by coldenhaulfield on Nov 11, 2017 20:01:00 GMT
It's not the same at all though. Civil War had the entire Avengers team involved. They were part of the plot with Scarlet Witch accidentally killing innocent people on a mission which is what set up the whole Civil War in the first place. Batman vs Superman didn't have the Justice League in it nor did the story have anything to do with them because they don't exist. Naturally having Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman in the same movie suddenly isn't a big deal. That's one of my favorite things DC fans do. The "holy trinity" is endlessly bragged about as being more "iconic" than any Marvel characters. ....But then having all three of them in the same movie for the very first time ever is downplayed while characters like Black Widow, Falcon, Ant-Man, and Black Widow are suddenly painted as box office juggernauts. That airport scene is apparently the whole movie to a DC fan. ..when it's convenient. That is until it's time to talk about being "progressive"...then you'll see the DC fan downplay Black Panther, Falcon, and Nick Fury. (always ignored that Black Panther was the first black hero and Falcon was the first African American hero in comics) You guys are funny. So is it possible for a DC fan to decide whether or not Batman, Superman, and Wonder Woman are a huge deal or a trio of underdogs to the impressive might of Ant-Man, Black Panther, Falcon, and Black Widow? Just depends on the situation I guess.  |
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Post by harpospoke on Nov 11, 2017 21:41:07 GMT
Naturally having Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman in the same movie suddenly isn't a big deal. That's one of my favorite things DC fans do. The "holy trinity" is endlessly bragged about as being more "iconic" than any Marvel characters. ....But then having all three of them in the same movie for the very first time ever is downplayed while characters like Black Widow, Falcon, Ant-Man, and Black Widow are suddenly painted as box office juggernauts. That airport scene is apparently the whole movie to a DC fan. ..when it's convenient. That is until it's time to talk about being "progressive"...then you'll see the DC fan downplay Black Panther, Falcon, and Nick Fury. (always ignored that Black Panther was the first black hero and Falcon was the first African American hero in comics) You guys are funny. So is it possible for a DC fan to decide whether or not Batman, Superman, and Wonder Woman are a huge deal or a trio of underdogs to the impressive might of Ant-Man, Black Panther, Falcon, and Black Widow? Just depends on the situation I guess. Well Batman and Superman are the most iconic Superheroes, there's really no debating that. Wonder Woman would be up there as well, not as high as Spider-man but probably about on par with the Hulk. Them being iconic doesn't mean the movie has to automatically do better than anything else. Superman has struggled at the box office for decades. Wonder Woman hasn't even had a movie. They would be bigger box office draws than Ant-man, Black Widow and Falcon. Man of Steel made more money than Ant-man and the others don't even warrant a movie. Civil War was an entire Avengers movie, it has everyone in it. Captain America, Iron Man and Spider-man included. That was the draw. Considering how much money the Avengers movies made, then it was a given it was likely going to be bigger than Batman vs Superman. So I guess you just watched the airport scene and ignored the rest of the movie. Not to mention that it actually has "Captain America" right in the title. It was actually called "Captain America 3" in China. So obviously Marvel wasn't trying to convince everyone it was an Avengers film...or they would have called it that. And let's just ignore that "Dawn of Justice" in the title of BvS. Gee...I wonder what that means?  So now we can just giggle any time a DC fan brings up the "iconic" word. That apparently means nothing. Bats, Supes, and WW are no match for the might of Iron Man, Cap, and various other characters in cameo roles. Not even close really....BvS was 280 million or so behind. It's going to be interesting to watch the goal posts move again after JL is released and doesn't gross as much as Avengers movies. How will DC fans try and spin that one into "not being a JL movie"? I guess maybe that Superman isn't in it very much? Let's go with that one for now. |
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Post by coldenhaulfield on Nov 11, 2017 21:43:44 GMT
Well Batman and Superman are the most iconic Superheroes, there's really no debating that. Wonder Woman would be up there as well, not as high as Spider-man but probably about on par with the Hulk. Them being iconic doesn't mean the movie has to automatically do better than anything else. Superman has struggled at the box office for decades. Wonder Woman hasn't even had a movie. They would be bigger box office draws than Ant-man, Black Widow and Falcon. Man of Steel made more money than Ant-man and the others don't even warrant a movie. Civil War was an entire Avengers movie, it has everyone in it. Captain America, Iron Man and Spider-man included. That was the draw. Considering how much money the Avengers movies made, then it was a given it was likely going to be bigger than Batman vs Superman. So I guess you just watched the airport scene and ignored the rest of the movie. Not to mention that it actually has "Captain America" right in the title. It was actually called "Captain America 3" in China. So obviously Marvel wasn't trying to convince everyone it was an Avengers film...or they would have called it that. And let's just ignore that "Dawn of Justice" in the title of BvS. Gee...I wonder what that means? So now we can just giggle any time a DC fan brings up the "iconic" word. That apparently means nothing. Bats, Supes, and WW are no match for the might of Iron Man, Cap, and various other characters in cameo roles. Not even close really....BvS was 280 million or so behind. It's going to be interesting to watch the goal posts move again after JL is released and doesn't gross as much as Avengers movies. How will DC fans try and spin that one into "not being a JL movie"? I guess maybe that Superman isn't in it very much? Let's go with that one for now.  |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2017 1:09:11 GMT
Well Batman and Superman are the most iconic Superheroes, there's really no debating that. Wonder Woman would be up there as well, not as high as Spider-man but probably about on par with the Hulk. Them being iconic doesn't mean the movie has to automatically do better than anything else. Superman has struggled at the box office for decades. Wonder Woman hasn't even had a movie. They would be bigger box office draws than Ant-man, Black Widow and Falcon. Man of Steel made more money than Ant-man and the others don't even warrant a movie. Civil War was an entire Avengers movie, it has everyone in it. Captain America, Iron Man and Spider-man included. That was the draw. Considering how much money the Avengers movies made, then it was a given it was likely going to be bigger than Batman vs Superman. So I guess you just watched the airport scene and ignored the rest of the movie. Not to mention that it actually has "Captain America" right in the title. It was actually called "Captain America 3" in China. So obviously Marvel wasn't trying to convince everyone it was an Avengers film...or they would have called it that. And let's just ignore that "Dawn of Justice" in the title of BvS. Gee...I wonder what that means? So now we can just giggle any time a DC fan brings up the "iconic" word. That apparently means nothing. Bats, Supes, and WW are no match for the might of Iron Man, Cap, and various other characters in cameo roles. Not even close really....BvS was 280 million or so behind. It's going to be interesting to watch the goal posts move again after JL is released and doesn't gross as much as Avengers movies. How will DC fans try and spin that one into "not being a JL movie"? I guess maybe that Superman isn't in it very much? Let's go with that one for now. Truer words have never been spoken. I can't believe we're still having this argument. Captain America: Civil War is a Captain America film, that happens to have the other Avengers in it for about five minutes. |
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Post by scabab on Nov 12, 2017 6:48:51 GMT
So now we can just giggle any time a DC fan brings up the "iconic" word. That apparently means nothing. Bats, Supes, and WW are no match for the might of Iron Man, Cap, and various other characters in cameo roles. Not even close really....BvS was 280 million or so behind. It's going to be interesting to watch the goal posts move again after JL is released and doesn't gross as much as Avengers movies. How will DC fans try and spin that one into "not being a JL movie"? I guess maybe that Superman isn't in it very much? Let's go with that one for now. They are iconic. Everyone knows that. Just because they're the most iconic doesn't mean they will make the most money. Spider-man is iconic and his Amazing Spider-man movies made less than Deadpool. So did Spider-man Homecoming in a fair comparison as well. The Avengers weren't just in the Airport scene. They were in the opening scene in Wakanda. They were in the scene at Avengers Tower. Some of them appeared in the scene where Winter Soldier was brainwashed and escaped. There were a few scenes with Vision and Scarlet Witch, Hawkeye being in one of them. They were in the prison scene and yes the Airport scene. They may not have been in it as much as the actual The Avengers movies but it ain't nothing like the 30 seconds that Aquaman, Flash and Cyborg appeared in. Justice League was never going to gross anywhere close to Avengers level money either. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2017 7:17:43 GMT
So now we can just giggle any time a DC fan brings up the "iconic" word. That apparently means nothing. Bats, Supes, and WW are no match for the might of Iron Man, Cap, and various other characters in cameo roles. Not even close really....BvS was 280 million or so behind. It's going to be interesting to watch the goal posts move again after JL is released and doesn't gross as much as Avengers movies. How will DC fans try and spin that one into "not being a JL movie"? I guess maybe that Superman isn't in it very much? Let's go with that one for now. They are iconic. Everyone knows that. Just because they're the most iconic doesn't mean they will make the most money. Spider-man is iconic and his Amazing Spider-man movies made less than Deadpool. So did Spider-man Homecoming in a fair comparison as well. The Avengers weren't just in the Airport scene. They were in the opening scene in Wakanda. They were in the scene at Avengers Tower. Some of them appeared in the scene where Winter Soldier was brainwashed and escaped. There were a few scenes with Vision and Scarlet Witch, Hawkeye being in one of them. They were in the prison scene and yes the Airport scene. They may not have been in it as much as the actual The Avengers movies but it ain't nothing like the 30 seconds that Aquaman, Flash and Cyborg appeared in. Justice League was never going to gross anywhere close to Avengers level money either. The only thing that proves is that Captain America had the whole crew as his supporting cast. It was a Captain America film and you are never going to convince any of us otherwise. |
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Post by scabab on Nov 12, 2017 7:26:42 GMT
They are iconic. Everyone knows that. Just because they're the most iconic doesn't mean they will make the most money. Spider-man is iconic and his Amazing Spider-man movies made less than Deadpool. So did Spider-man Homecoming in a fair comparison as well. The Avengers weren't just in the Airport scene. They were in the opening scene in Wakanda. They were in the scene at Avengers Tower. Some of them appeared in the scene where Winter Soldier was brainwashed and escaped. There were a few scenes with Vision and Scarlet Witch, Hawkeye being in one of them. They were in the prison scene and yes the Airport scene. They may not have been in it as much as the actual The Avengers movies but it ain't nothing like the 30 seconds that Aquaman, Flash and Cyborg appeared in. Justice League was never going to gross anywhere close to Avengers level money either. The only thing that proves is that Captain America had the whole crew as his supporting cast. It was a Captain America film and you are never going to convince any of us otherwise. I don't really care about convincing other people's opinion, I'm happy enough with my own and there are other people here who feel the same way. As I said before, there are comics and Avengers storylines where one character has precedence over the others but they're still Avengers comics. In Avengers Age of Ultron, Captain America had 50 minutes of screentime and Iron Man had 45 minutes of screentime. In comparison Hulk only had 24 minutes, Hawkeye had 20 minutes and Thor had a paltry 14 minutes. Those other Avengers characters didn't have near as much screentime as Captain America and Iron Man. The same being true for Civil War just to a larger extent. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2017 7:28:22 GMT
The only thing that proves is that Captain America had the whole crew as his supporting cast. It was a Captain America film and you are never going to convince any of us otherwise. I don't really care about convincing other people's opinion, I'm happy enough with my own and there are other people here who feel the same way. As I said before, there are comics and Avengers storylines where one character has precedence over the others but they're still Avengers comics. In Avengers Age of Ultron, Captain America had 50 minutes of screentime and Iron Man had 45 minutes of screentime. In comparison Hulk only had 24 minutes, Hawkeye had 20 minutes and Thor had a paltry 14 minutes. Those other Avengers characters didn't have near as much screentime as Captain America and Iron Man. The same being true for Civil War just to a larger extent. What is the title of the movie in question? |
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Post by Tristan's Journal on Nov 12, 2017 7:32:41 GMT
They are iconic. Everyone knows that. Just because they're the most iconic doesn't mean they will make the most money. Spider-man is iconic and his Amazing Spider-man movies made less than Deadpool. So did Spider-man Homecoming in a fair comparison as well. The Avengers weren't just in the Airport scene. They were in the opening scene in Wakanda. They were in the scene at Avengers Tower. Some of them appeared in the scene where Winter Soldier was brainwashed and escaped. There were a few scenes with Vision and Scarlet Witch, Hawkeye being in one of them. They were in the prison scene and yes the Airport scene. They may not have been in it as much as the actual The Avengers movies but it ain't nothing like the 30 seconds that Aquaman, Flash and Cyborg appeared in. Justice League was never going to gross anywhere close to Avengers level money either. The only thing that proves is that Captain America had the whole crew as his supporting cast. It was a Captain America film and you are never going to convince any of us otherwise. he convinced me,...well...if I did not actually see this movie and that observation was common sense that is. A film infamous for sidelining it's central character and his story and foes (Hydra) in favor for randomly shoehorning in 2 origin stories (Iron Mans' Spiderboy and Black Catman), Iron Man's past mommy issues and his buddy's faux death etc. What were they thinking, like "Batman vs Suoerman comes out we, we will have to top that by throwing everything into the Cap film, hahahahaha"...? I wonder what the poor guy on your avatar thought when reading that script. |
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Post by scabab on Nov 12, 2017 8:04:09 GMT
What is the title of the movie in question? That's besides the point, the thread from a few days ago had people discuss if they felt if it was a Captain America movie or a Avengers movie. I think it could have easily have been called Avengers: Civil War without people really raising too much of a fuss about it. That title would have worked for the movie as well. Captain America was in Avengers more than anyone else at 38 minutes with Iron Man closely behind at 37 minutes and the others trailing that. Like I said in the sequel Captain America had 50 minutes with Iron Man closely behind at 45 minutes and the others trailing that. In Civil War Captain America had 38 minutes of screen time and Iron Man had 37 minutes with the others trailers that. So why can't that also be called Avengers? Iron Man was in it just as much so it could have been called Iron Man: Civil War. You said this But that's not true. Black Widow was in it for 12 minutes, the same as Hawkeyes screen time in Avengers and not far off Thor's screen time in Age of Ultron. Scarlet Witch had 10 minutes. Spider-man was in it for 8 minutes about the same as Vision in Age of Ultron. Vision also had more screen time in Civil War than Age of Ultron. Falcon had 10 minutes and War Machine had 7 minutes also more than in Age of Ultron. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2017 8:10:47 GMT
What is the title of the movie in question? That's besides the point, the thread from a few days ago had people discuss if they felt if it was a Captain America movie or a Avengers movie. I think it could have easily have been called Avengers: Civil War without people really raising too much of a fuss about it. That title would have worked for the movie as well. Captain America was in Avengers more than anyone else at 38 minutes with Iron Man closely behind at 37 minutes and the others trailing that. Like I said in the sequel Captain America had 50 minutes with Iron Man closely behind at 45 minutes and the others trailing that. In Civil War Captain America had 38 minutes of screen time and Iron Man had 37 minutes with the others trailers that. So why can't that also be called Avengers? Iron Man was in it just as much so it could have been called Iron Man: Civil War. You said this But that's not true. Black Widow was in it for 12 minutes, the same as Hawkeyes screen time in Avengers and not far off Thor's screen time in Age of Ultron. Scarlet Witch had 10 minutes. Spider-man was in it for 8 minutes about the same as Vision in Age of Ultron. Vision also had more screen time in Civil War than Age of Ultron. Falcon had 10 minutes and War Machine had 7 minutes also more than in Age of Ultron. No, it isn't besides the point. The title of the film is Captain America: Civil War, and guess who the main character is, whose name and actor get top billiong? Captain America and Chris Evans. Its Cap's movie. The others are supports in it. It is Captain's story and movie. Therefore, it is a Captain America movie. It can't be called The Avengers because Captain America is the main character. Deal with it. Screen time in and of itself is meaningless. There is no debate. This was a Captain America movie. You just don't want to admit it was the top grosser of 2016 on that virtue. |
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