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Post by ArArArchStanton on Nov 15, 2017 20:19:08 GMT
Now in complete fairness I will say right now, if Infinity War turns out to be the worst reviewed MCU film, yes, I'll be upset.
Justice League is supposed to be important to DC. This isn't a random show on Netflix. This is DC's crown jewel.
The question has to be asked, how can the series continue like this? How much has this affected the long term value of the DC product? The thing that is consistent between all of the reviews, positive and negative, is that everyone thinks it's a vast improvement in the right direction. It is a flawed film (how flawed depends on the reviewer), but most seem to agree that it finally gets the characters right (even Superman apparently) Most of the problems seem to stem from ham handed course corrections. It's going to make them money. It's going to make them tons of money. And while it's a step backward from Wonder Woman, it's a massive step forward in getting the universe right. So how can the series continue like this? Upwardly mobile while still financially viable? It can continue for a long time. How much has this affected the long term value of the DC Product? Positively. The best (paraphrased) quote I have seen is that its "like a flawed pilot of a TV show that I definitely want to keep watching." no I don't think that's the consistent review. I've seen quiet a few reviews saying it's just as bad in a different way. So instead of spectacularly failing, it just fails in a boring way.
And I don't see how failing in any sense is a massive step forward. If anything I'd say it sets the brand back much further. Now they've just convinced anybody who had any hope left to give up.
It definitely has not effective it positively. I don't even know how you can say that quite frankly.
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Post by Tristan's Journal on Nov 15, 2017 20:19:53 GMT
The site hasn't updated the overall number just yet. A 54 is currently the exact same as Thor Dark World. The original Thor and Iron Man 2 scored a tad higher at 57. So it's about on par with those movies for the time being. Ok, so that's not really something to brag about is it?
Also I don't recall TDW having such a negative connotation even so. I mean just read what's being said about JL and compare that to TDW and it's pretty clear the more negative comments are with JL.
it's called selective memory often strongly associated with fanatism or low effort thinking. The negative TDW connotation is very prevalent especially as Disney marketing an critical consensus of Thor 3 was essentially: The first two were crap, this one is different.
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Post by Larcen26 on Nov 15, 2017 20:32:32 GMT
The thing that is consistent between all of the reviews, positive and negative, is that everyone thinks it's a vast improvement in the right direction. It is a flawed film (how flawed depends on the reviewer), but most seem to agree that it finally gets the characters right (even Superman apparently) Most of the problems seem to stem from ham handed course corrections. It's going to make them money. It's going to make them tons of money. And while it's a step backward from Wonder Woman, it's a massive step forward in getting the universe right. So how can the series continue like this? Upwardly mobile while still financially viable? It can continue for a long time. How much has this affected the long term value of the DC Product? Positively. The best (paraphrased) quote I have seen is that its "like a flawed pilot of a TV show that I definitely want to keep watching." no I don't think that's the consistent review. I've seen quiet a few reviews saying it's just as bad in a different way. So instead of spectacularly failing, it just fails in a boring way.
And I don't see how failing in any sense is a massive step forward. If anything I'd say it sets the brand back much further. Now they've just convinced anybody who had any hope left to give up.
It definitely has not effective it positively. I don't even know how you can say that quite frankly.
Because movies are more than the critics and people who analyze things on message boards. BvS stunk. Tons of people saw it and said, "Wonder Woman was awesome!" and then went to see Wonder Woman.
Tons of people will see this, say "Aquaman was awesome!" and then go see Aquaman when it comes out...and The Flash...and MoS 2...
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Post by scabab on Nov 15, 2017 20:37:36 GMT
The site hasn't updated the overall number just yet. A 54 is currently the exact same as Thor Dark World. The original Thor and Iron Man 2 scored a tad higher at 57. So it's about on par with those movies for the time being. Ok, so that's not really something to brag about is it?
Also I don't recall TDW having such a negative connotation even so. I mean just read what's being said about JL and compare that to TDW and it's pretty clear the more negative comments are with JL.
Not particularly because Thor Dark World was considered pretty weak itself as was Iron Man 2 but the reviews do put it on par with those movies. Which is acceptable.
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Nov 15, 2017 20:38:27 GMT
Because movies are more than the critics and people who analyze things on message boards. BvS stunk. Tons of people saw it and said, "Wonder Woman was awesome!" and then went to see Wonder Woman.
Tons of people will see this, say "Aquaman was awesome!" and then go see Aquaman when it comes out...and The Flash...and MoS 2... There's no need to sugar coat this. It is way way way way worse than it should have been.
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Nov 15, 2017 20:40:19 GMT
Ok, so that's not really something to brag about is it?
Also I don't recall TDW having such a negative connotation even so. I mean just read what's being said about JL and compare that to TDW and it's pretty clear the more negative comments are with JL.
Not particularly because Thor Dark World was considered pretty weak itself as was Iron Man 2 but the reviews do put it on par with those movies. Which is acceptable. TDW is considered weak compared to MCU films, but the feedback from that film is nowhere near as negative as what you're seeing from Justice League.
They aren't on par with each other.
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Post by Larcen26 on Nov 15, 2017 20:44:44 GMT
Because movies are more than the critics and people who analyze things on message boards. BvS stunk. Tons of people saw it and said, "Wonder Woman was awesome!" and then went to see Wonder Woman.
Tons of people will see this, say "Aquaman was awesome!" and then go see Aquaman when it comes out...and The Flash...and MoS 2... There's no need to sugar coat this. It is way way way way worse than it should have been. Agreed. But you seem to think that means it won't make money and will derail the entire DCEU...and that just won't be the case. I 100% guarantee it.
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Post by scabab on Nov 15, 2017 20:47:54 GMT
TDW is considered weak compared to MCU films, but the feedback from that film is nowhere near as negative as what you're seeing from Justice League. They aren't on par with each other. What we're seeing from Justice League is that it currently has a 54 based on 33 reviews exactly the same as Thor Dark World with 44 reviews. They are factually on par. The feedback is only worse for Justice League to you because you actively went out of your way to find only bad reviews. Something you would of course never have done with Thor Dark World.
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Post by sdrew13163 on Nov 15, 2017 22:07:29 GMT
I read the reviews online and it just sounds BAD. But then I watched Chris Stuckmann's and The Schmoes Know reviews on YouTube and all three of them liked it and made it sound like my cup of tea.
On top of that, nearly every review makes it sound like a fun ride. $1 billion may not be all that unrealistic.
On a side note, according to Stuckmann, WB put a mandate on this movie to make it 2 hours or less. If that's true, then they're even worse at what they do than I thought. Some reviews are saying that it could be really good if it wasn't so rushed. WB can just be so damn ignorant sometimes.
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Post by taylorfirst1 on Nov 15, 2017 22:15:45 GMT
I just looked at Metacritic and it's at 49 with 36 reviews. Bad news for some. Luckily, I don't care what critics say.
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Post by Larcen26 on Nov 15, 2017 22:18:53 GMT
And when it makes tons of money, ArArArch will be standing there like the Grinch staring down at Whoville...
"It made money without reviews! People went to see it despite the critics! How can it be so?"
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Post by taylorfirst1 on Nov 15, 2017 22:20:47 GMT
And when it makes tons of money, ArArArch will be standing there like the Grinch staring down at Whoville... "It made money without reviews! People went to see it despite the critics! How can it be so?" It came without ribbons! It came without tags! It came without packages, boxes or bags?
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Post by Tristan's Journal on Nov 15, 2017 22:32:21 GMT
Never said we weren't. But the indications are that this film is the first step in finally getting these characters right. Especially if you combine it with Wonder Woman proving it can be done. I will say that the humbling of the DCEU fandom is astounding to watch. The early narratives of prophesied supremacy and the constant, thunderous chest thumping have all been traded in for accepting scraps from WB's table...No disrespect intended - just an observation. yeah! Not unlike YOU thunderously chest thumping "The Punisher The Best MCU Series Ever Made" ("Bang!") imdb2.freeforums.net/post/1067646/threadbut it turned out to be this, with you accepting leaden scraps from Marvel's MCU table.... imdb2.freeforums.net/post/1073108/threadOh my fair lady, Karma is a bitch, just like hypocrisy. No disrespect intended - just an observation. I wonder do we sit around the same table after all? Hee hee hee
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Post by formersamhmd on Nov 15, 2017 22:45:25 GMT
I will say that the humbling of the DCEU fandom is astounding to watch. The early narratives of prophesied supremacy and the constant, thunderous chest thumping have all been traded in for accepting scraps from WB's table...No disrespect intended - just an observation. yeah! Not unlike YOU thunderously chest thumping "The Punisher The Best MCU Series Ever Made" ("Bang!") imdb2.freeforums.net/post/1067646/threadbut it turned out to be this, with you accepting leaden scraps from Marvel's MCU table.... imdb2.freeforums.net/post/1073108/threadOh my fair lady, Karma is a bitch, just like hypocrisy. No disrespect intended - just an observation. I wonder do we sit around the same table after all? Hee hee hee Eh, with all the win Marvel has there's going to be a little "still good but less than great" seeping in. Do you judge Stephen King for Maximum Overdrive when Misery is staring you in the face?
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Post by scabab on Nov 15, 2017 22:56:06 GMT
I just looked at Metacritic and it's at 49 with 36 reviews. Bad news for some. Luckily, I don't care what critics say. Gone up to a 50 with 37 reviews!!!
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Nov 16, 2017 1:03:23 GMT
There's no need to sugar coat this. It is way way way way worse than it should have been. Agreed. But you seem to think that means it won't make money and will derail the entire DCEU...and that just won't be the case. I 100% guarantee it. Oh no, it will make money obviously, but not as much as it could have. BVS was a massive financial disappointment for instance. Yes, it made a profit, but it should have easily made another 400 million like Civil War did.
The DCEU is already derailed. In fact is there a worse super hero trilogy out there other than the Snyder films? I can't think of one.
Obviously they'll continue to make more films, but I can't imagine this is the version of the DCU you were hoping to put on your dvd shelf and look back on.
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Nov 16, 2017 1:07:07 GMT
TDW is considered weak compared to MCU films, but the feedback from that film is nowhere near as negative as what you're seeing from Justice League. They aren't on par with each other. What we're seeing from Justice League is that it currently has a 54 based on 33 reviews exactly the same as Thor Dark World with 44 reviews. They are factually on par. The feedback is only worse for Justice League to you because you actively went out of your way to find only bad reviews. Something you would of course never have done with Thor Dark World. And so now we're arguing that at best the crown jewel of the DCU is maybe as good as the lowest rated of all 17 MCU films?
That's where the standard is? I mean let's just think about what we're discussing here, and I don't think you can tell me that's acceptable.
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Post by scabab on Nov 16, 2017 1:18:36 GMT
What we're seeing from Justice League is that it currently has a 54 based on 33 reviews exactly the same as Thor Dark World with 44 reviews. They are factually on par. The feedback is only worse for Justice League to you because you actively went out of your way to find only bad reviews. Something you would of course never have done with Thor Dark World. And so now we're arguing that at best the crown jewel of the DCU is maybe as good as the lowest rated of all 17 MCU films?
That's where the standard is? I mean let's just think about what we're discussing here, and I don't think you can tell me that's acceptable.
Well there's no arguing it, if it's not getting good reviews then it straight up isn't getting good reviews. It being the main title was never some guarantee that it was going to be a standout success. Following Man of Steel and then Batman vs Superman, then considering this is the follow up and made by the same director then realistically this was always going to happen. This shouldn't really be a surprise to anybody. It was unlikely to get good reviews at all. At least it's said to be an improvement over BvS and they're saying it's still entertaining and the heroes are done well so just take the positives that you can.
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Post by Lord Death Man on Nov 16, 2017 1:19:04 GMT
What we're seeing from Justice League is that it currently has a 54 based on 33 reviews exactly the same as Thor Dark World with 44 reviews. They are factually on par. The feedback is only worse for Justice League to you because you actively went out of your way to find only bad reviews. Something you would of course never have done with Thor Dark World. And so now we're arguing that at best the crown jewel of the DCU is maybe as good as the lowest rated of all 17 MCU films?
That's where the standard is? I mean let's just think about what we're discussing here, and I don't think you can tell me that's acceptable.
That's a powerful indictment, Stanton. Scabs won't back down. The man is literally fighting a battle of percentage points. You're a cruel taskmaster for putting him through this. It's embarrassing.
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Nov 16, 2017 1:33:47 GMT
And so now we're arguing that at best the crown jewel of the DCU is maybe as good as the lowest rated of all 17 MCU films?
That's where the standard is? I mean let's just think about what we're discussing here, and I don't think you can tell me that's acceptable.
Well there's no arguing it, if it's not getting good reviews then it straight up isn't getting good reviews. It being the main title was never some guarantee that it was going to be a standout success. Following Man of Steel and then Batman vs Superman, then considering this is the follow up and made by the same director then realistically this was always going to happen. This shouldn't really be a surprise to anybody. It was unlikely to get good reviews at all. At least it's said to be an improvement over BvS and they're saying it's still entertaining and the heroes are done well so just take the positives that you can. I do hope you enjoy it for what it is, I really do.
But so that maybe you understand what I'm saying, and maybe this is hard to explain, but I'm not trying to take all the positives that I can. I'm not interested in liking or enjoying this movie. It's more like reading how terrible the Dragon Ball movie was without ever seeing it.
Actually I would prefer people stop supporting subpar movies like this, because by doing so, you're just encouraging more bad movies.
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