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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2017 2:49:53 GMT
An atheist recruit is trying to convince me to become an atheist and then burn in hell for all eternity for denying God. I told him that i don't care about religion, and i am an agnostic. He said that i can be an agnostic and atheist at the same time. This makes no sense to me. Explain
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2017 2:59:05 GMT
grammarist.com/usage/agnostic-atheist/An atheist lacks faith in God, believes there is no god, or lacks awareness of gods. An agnostic either believes that it is impossible to know whether there is a god or is noncommittal on the issue. The difference may seem small, but atheism and agnosticism are actually vastly different worldviews. To claim there is no point in trying to prove or disprove God’s existence (as many philosophers have done) is to acknowledge the limits of human perception. To take the bold stance that there definitely is no god (as a few philosophers have done) implies that human perception is not so limited and that we can make such claims about the universe. These positions (as well as the position that God does exist) give rise to fundamentally disparate philosophies. I think you are wrong, mr atheist recruiter
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Mar 5, 2017 3:06:22 GMT
An atheist recruit is trying to convince me to become an atheist and then burn in hell for all eternity for denying God. I told him that i don't care about religion, and i am an agnostic. He said that i can be an agnostic and atheist at the same time. This makes no sense to me. Explain
Atheist: a person who disbelieves or lacks belief in the existence of God or gods. Agnostic: a person who believes that nothing is known or can be known of the existence or nature of God
You can hold both of these positions simultaneously, I do, and most atheists do. But I fully respect the preference of label of any atheist/agnostic person.
Further, you either believe something or you don't. That applies to ghosts, big foot, esp, etc. There is no middle ground of belief. You either accept it as true, or you don't.
Therefore agnostic is not a middle ground position. It is the answer to a completely different question, which is do you have knowledge of the subject, and that is why you can be both.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2017 3:08:44 GMT
An atheist recruit is trying to convince me to become an atheist and then burn in hell for all eternity for denying God. I told him that i don't care about religion, and i am an agnostic. He said that i can be an agnostic and atheist at the same time. This makes no sense to me. Explain
Atheist: a person who disbelieves or lacks belief in the existence of God or gods. Agnostic: a person who believes that nothing is known or can be known of the existence or nature of God
You can hold both of these positions simultaneously, I do, and most atheists do. But I fully respect the preference of label of any atheist/agnostic person.
Further, you either believe something or you don't. That applies to ghosts, big foot, esp, etc. There is no middle ground of belief. You either accept it as true, or you don't.
Therefore agnostic is not a middle ground position. It is the answer to a completely different question, which is do you have knowledge of the subject, and that is why you can be both.
The difference may seem small, but atheism and agnosticism are actually vastly different worldviews. Agnosticism To claim there is no point in trying to prove or disprove God’s existence (as many philosophers have done) is to acknowledge the limits of human perception. Atheism To take the bold stance that there definitely is no god (as a few philosophers have done) implies that human perception is not so limited and that we can make such claims about the universe.
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Mar 5, 2017 3:11:34 GMT
Atheist: a person who disbelieves or lacks belief in the existence of God or gods. Agnostic: a person who believes that nothing is known or can be known of the existence or nature of God
You can hold both of these positions simultaneously, I do, and most atheists do. But I fully respect the preference of label of any atheist/agnostic person.
Further, you either believe something or you don't. That applies to ghosts, big foot, esp, etc. There is no middle ground of belief. You either accept it as true, or you don't.
Therefore agnostic is not a middle ground position. It is the answer to a completely different question, which is do you have knowledge of the subject, and that is why you can be both.
The difference may seem small, but atheism and agnosticism are actually vastly different worldviews. Agnosticism To claim there is no point in trying to prove or disprove God’s existence (as many philosophers have done) is to acknowledge the limits of human perception. Atheism To take the bold stance that there definitely is no god (as a few philosophers have done) implies that human perception is not so limited and that we can make such claims about the universe. That isn't the position of agnosticism. Agnostic is simply to claim no knowledge of a god, as I just provided a definition explaining above.
Atheism is most definitely not boldly claiming there is no god. Some atheists may claim that, but in it's base form it is simply not believing the claim of a god to be true.
Wherever you are getting this from is pretty bizarre.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2017 3:14:35 GMT
The difference may seem small, but atheism and agnosticism are actually vastly different worldviews. Agnosticism To claim there is no point in trying to prove or disprove God’s existence (as many philosophers have done) is to acknowledge the limits of human perception. Atheism To take the bold stance that there definitely is no god (as a few philosophers have done) implies that human perception is not so limited and that we can make such claims about the universe. That isn't the position of agnosticism. Agnostic is simply to claim no knowledge of a god, as I just provided a definition explaining above.
Atheism is most definitely not boldly claiming there is no god. Some atheists may claim that, but in it's base form it is simply not believing the claim of a god to be true.
Wherever you are getting this from is pretty bizarre.
here's another source link
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Mar 5, 2017 3:18:06 GMT
This is why you don't know what you're talking about.
First, many atheists use a highly scientific approach, so whoever wrote this has no idea what they're talking about. Please go and tell Laurence Krauss and Sam Harris that they aren't atheists.
Second, agnosticism isn't on the same spectrum at all. You either believe or you don't. It's a yes/no question, there is no spectrum. Again, whoever wrote this, has absolutely no clue what these positions are.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2017 3:19:36 GMT
This is why you don't know what you're talking about.
First, many atheists use a highly scientific approach, so whoever wrote this has no idea what they're talking about. Please go and tell Laurence Krauss and Sam Harris that they aren't atheists.
Second, agnosticism isn't on the same spectrum at all. You either believe or you don't. It's a yes/no question, there is no spectrum. Again, whoever wrote this, has absolutely no clue what these positions are.
There is no yes/no question here, and you cannot force me to be either an atheist or a theist of any form.
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Mar 5, 2017 3:24:02 GMT
There is no yes/no question here, and you cannot force me to be either an atheist or a theist of any form. The statement is "a god exists". You either believe that to be true, or you don't. It's yes/no question.
I'm not asking you to tell me the answer, it's enough that you know it yourself. But answering yes means you're a theist, and answering no means you're an atheist. There is no middle ground, and you already know if you belief it. Saying "I'm not sure" or any similar answers, means you don't accept it as true, even if you are willing to.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2017 3:29:50 GMT
There is no yes/no question here, and you cannot force me to be either an atheist or a theist of any form. The statement is "a god exists". You either believe that to be true, or you don't. It's yes/no question.
I'm not asking you to tell me the answer, it's enough that you know it yourself. But answering yes means you're a theist, and answering no means you're an atheist. There is no middle ground, and you already know if you belief it. Saying "I'm not sure" or any similar answers, means you don't accept it as true, even if you are willing to.
This is not a true or false question. a god exists? Yes> Theist No>Atheist I don't know>Agnostic I hope that clarifies your confusion.
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Mar 5, 2017 3:34:16 GMT
This is not a true or false question. a god exists? Yes> Theist No>Atheist I don't know>Agnostic I hope that clarifies your confusion. Incorrect
Atheism can answer that question "I don't know" as well.
To clear up your confusion there are actually two questions at work here.
Do you believe a god exists? Yes - theist No - Atheist
and
Do you have knowledge of a god Yes - gnostic No - Agnostic
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2017 3:39:38 GMT
This is not a true or false question. a god exists? Yes> Theist No>Atheist I don't know>Agnostic I hope that clarifies your confusion. Incorrect
Atheism can answer that question "I don't know" as well. Which is why agnostic isn't a middle ground. No he cannot. atheism is specifically the position that there are no deities.
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Post by puvo on Mar 5, 2017 3:41:27 GMT
The statement is "a god exists". You either believe that to be true, or you don't. It's yes/no question.
I'm not asking you to tell me the answer, it's enough that you know it yourself. But answering yes means you're a theist, and answering no means you're an atheist. There is no middle ground, and you already know if you belief it. Saying "I'm not sure" or any similar answers, means you don't accept it as true, even if you are willing to.
This is not a true or false question. a god exists? Yes> Theist No>Atheist I don't know>Agnostic I hope that clarifies your confusion. The statement was "A god exists", not "A god exists?" You either accept the claim as true (theist) or not (atheist).
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Mar 5, 2017 3:41:28 GMT
No he cannot. atheism is specifically the position that there are no deities. No, it really isn't. It is the lack of belief in deities. It can include the position that there are no deities, but it most certainly does not have to. All it takes is not being convinced that it's true.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2017 3:42:35 GMT
This is not a true or false question. a god exists? Yes> Theist No>Atheist I don't know>Agnostic I hope that clarifies your confusion. The statement was "A god exists", not "A god exists?" You either accept the claim as true (theist) or not (atheist). You can also say "I don't know" as a response.
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Mar 5, 2017 3:44:51 GMT
The statement was "A god exists", not "A god exists?" You either accept the claim as true (theist) or not (atheist). You can also say "I don't know" as a response. Which means you don't accept it as true, which makes you an atheist. I'm not trying to be rude, but as I told you before, there is no middle ground.
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Post by puvo on Mar 5, 2017 3:45:22 GMT
The statement was "A god exists", not "A god exists?" You either accept the claim as true (theist) or not (atheist). You can also say "I don't know" as a response. 'I dont know' means you don't accept the claim as true. Atheist. Atheist refers to belief, and agnostic refers to knowledge, which is a subset of belief.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2017 3:47:03 GMT
You cant really be both but you can lean one way more than another. I consider myself agnostic but I lean more toward atheism. The only thing that keeps me from being just an atheist is I think 'well maybe, who knows'. It is hard for me to be 100% about anything. I just naturally have some degree of doubt in every one and everything.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2017 3:48:38 GMT
No he cannot. atheism is specifically the position that there are no deities. No, it really isn't. It is the lack of belief in deities. It can include the position that there are no deities, but it most certainly does not have to. www.diffen.com/difference/Agnostic_vs_AtheistAn agnostic believes it is impossible to know if god(s) exist ("Strong Agnosticism"), or believes that the answer may in principle be discovered, but is currently not known ("Weak Agnosticism"). Some agnostics feel that the answer is not important. An agnostic disbelieves assertions that the existence of a deity or deities has been demonstrated, but also disbelieves assertions that the nonexistence of a deity or deities has been demonstrated. Ancient Greek ἀ- (a-, "not") +γιγνώσκω (gignōskō, "I know"). Important Figures Thomas Jefferson, Carl Sagan, Piers Anthony, Susan B Anthony
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Mar 5, 2017 3:49:06 GMT
You cant really be both but you can lean one way more than another. I consider myself agnostic but I lean more toward atheism. The only thing that keeps me from being just an atheist is I think 'well maybe, who knows'. It is hard for me to be 100% about anything. I just naturally have some degree of doubt in every one and everything. You can absolutely be both.
I don't believe a god exists - Atheist I don't have knowledge of a god - Agnostic
Agnostic isn't between theist and atheist. It is a different topic altogether which is about knowledge, not belief.
You are either atheist or theist, gnostic or agnostic. Those don't cross over.
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