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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Mar 5, 2017 15:58:12 GMT
This isn't really true because belief is not a catch all phrase. One can be skeptical of the amount of influence their deity of choice has in their lives and can doubt the decisions of that deity or their involvement. So one can believe that God existed or exist without a care for humanity or is not sure. Religious people created the arguments atheist pretend to create such as "if God exists then why is there suffering". Also anything they do in contradiction to God is a sign that they don;t necessarily believe in that God's existence as opposed to them merely being hypocrites. So a belief based life is not so easy and carefree as just automatically believing anything the religion tells them. There is always a wrestling and conflict begets skepticism in existence. Did you actuallly read what I wrote? Because you seem to have reworded my statement and proceeded to critisize me at the same time. I don;t see how you could have thought I reworded your statements. Belief in Gd can easily and routinely have skepticism to the pint that one can say they believe in God but show they don;t by their actions ror stop worshipping altogether. In short, it is very easy to be an agnostic theist. People do it all the time. If you said the same thing as this than I apologize for misunderstanding.
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Mar 5, 2017 17:22:35 GMT
No he is right. We are done here. No, he's most certainly not. He's got at least 2 major things wrong in that one statement.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2017 17:23:25 GMT
No he is right. We are done here. No, he's most certainly not. He's got at least 2 major things wrong in that one statement. Alright you keep on rejecting various sources while i move on
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Mar 5, 2017 17:26:25 GMT
No, he's most certainly not. He's got at least 2 major things wrong in that one statement. Alright you keep on rejecting various sources while i move on I gave you the direct definitions, so who's rejecting what? All you've got is a William Lane Craig quote, as though he's anything but an apologist.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2017 17:28:03 GMT
Alright you keep on rejecting various sources while i move on I gave you the direct definitions, so who's rejecting what? All you've got is a William Lane Craig quote, as though he's anything but an apologist. I have posted various links all of them saying agnosticism and atheism are different. You keep being pedantic. It doesn't change anything
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Mar 5, 2017 17:30:35 GMT
I gave you the direct definitions, so who's rejecting what? All you've got is a William Lane Craig quote, as though he's anything but an apologist. I have posted various links all of them saying agnosticism and atheism are different. You keep being pedantic. It doesn't change anything You've already admitted you can be both at once, so I don't know why you're continuing this. I guess you're just trolling?
They are different. I agree. So are apples and oranges, but I can have both of them at the same time. I already explained how, so what is it you aren't getting?
I don't have knowledge of a god - agnostic I don't believe in a god - atheist
You can do both of those at once. Get it?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2017 17:45:45 GMT
I have posted various links all of them saying agnosticism and atheism are different. You keep being pedantic. It doesn't change anything You've already admitted you can be both at once, so I don't know why you're continuing this. I guess you're just trolling?
They are different. I agree. So are apples and oranges, but I can have both of them at the same time. I already explained how, so what is it you aren't getting?
I don't have knowledge of a god - agnostic I don't believe in a god - atheist
You can do both of those at once. Get it?
You are free to believe that. Have a nice day
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Mar 5, 2017 17:51:36 GMT
You are free to believe that. Have a nice day Ok, well again you already admitted that those terms work like I say they do. You even posted web pages agreeing with me. It's how those terms actually work, so I suggest you use them appropriately. Thanks.
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Post by vomisacaasi on Mar 5, 2017 17:52:07 GMT
Pretty simple. I do not believe god exists but I do not know for sure one way or the other.
One speaks to belief the other to knowledge. Regardless of what some talking head says. Craig is not Arlon he does not get to define words and have them mean anything but to him
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2017 17:54:27 GMT
You are free to believe that. Have a nice day Ok, well again you already admitted that those terms work like I say they do. You even posted web pages agreeing with me. It's how those terms actually work, so I suggest you use them appropriately. Thanks. I admitted to nothing of that sort. But keep twisting the narrative the way you want it to be. Hope that keeps you happy.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2017 17:55:21 GMT
Pretty simple. I do not believe god exists but I do not know for sure one way or the other. One speaks to belief the other to knowledge. Regardless of what some talking head says. Craig is not Arlon he does not get to define words and have them mean anything but to him Your beliefs are a bit different to mine. I do not know that god exists or not. Nor i do believe that god exists or does not exist.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2017 17:59:27 GMT
It's sometimes referred to as shoe-horn atheism where atheism is taken as the default position. So all other animal life are also technically atheists because they are absent of theism within mind. It was an atheist philosopher who stated: "All children are born Atheists; they have no idea of God."
What are you thoughts on Dawkins' scale from his God delusion?
3-5 are supposed to be the Agnostic umbrella. Of course, again, it's probably too simplistic because humans are very complex creatures but it's better than assuming everyone is agnostic because it does not water down the position.
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Post by vomisacaasi on Mar 5, 2017 18:00:35 GMT
I hate to break it to you but you are an agnostic atheist.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2017 18:32:36 GMT
I hate to break it to you but you are an agnostic atheist. I don't deny the possibility that god(s) might exist
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Post by Eva Yojimbo on Mar 5, 2017 19:06:57 GMT
This is seriously the stupidest debate ever: and I say this as it applies to all purely semantic debates. Who the fuck cares about definitely determining the definition of "atheist/theist?" Shouldn't we be more concerned about accurately understanding what another person thinks? Here's my belief: I do not claim certainty that God doesn't exist, but I think the probability that God does exist is <1%. Now, that's my belief. Call me an atheist, an agnostic, an agnostic atheist, or a flying purple people eater: all I care about is that you acknowledge what my actual belief is, not what label you choose to give me.
Bottom line: beliefs should be more important than the labels.
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Post by Eva Yojimbo on Mar 5, 2017 19:10:44 GMT
It's sometimes referred to as shoe-horn atheism where atheism is taken as the default position. So all other animal life are also technically atheists because they are absent of theism within mind. It was an atheist philosopher who stated: "All children are born Atheists; they have no idea of God." What are you thoughts on Dawkins' scale from his God delusion? 3-5 are supposed to be the Agnostic umbrella. Of course, again, it's probably too simplistic because humans are very complex creatures but it's better than assuming everyone is agnostic because it does not water down the position. Dawkins's scale is a far more robust reflection of reality and how people think than the theist/atheist/agnostic trio. I've often said (though I didn't know Dawkins said it first) that belief should be treated more on a probability scale than as binary statements with perhaps a third term representing a huge, grey middle. I'd be #6 "de facto atheist" on that scale.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2017 19:13:39 GMT
It's sometimes referred to as shoe-horn atheism where atheism is taken as the default position. So all other animal life are also technically atheists because they are absent of theism within mind. It was an atheist philosopher who stated: "All children are born Atheists; they have no idea of God." What are you thoughts on Dawkins' scale from his God delusion? 3-5 are supposed to be the Agnostic umbrella. Of course, again, it's probably too simplistic because humans are very complex creatures but it's better than assuming everyone is agnostic because it does not water down the position. Dawkins's scale is a far more robust reflection of reality and how people think than the theist/atheist/agnostic trio. I've often said (though I didn't know Dawkins said it first) that belief should be treated more on a probability scale than as binary statements with perhaps a third term representing a huge, grey middle. I'd be #6 "de facto atheist" on that scale. I would be 4. Exactly 50 per cent. Completely impartial agnostic. "God's existence and non-existence are exactly equiprobable".
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2017 19:19:13 GMT
I hate to break it to you but you are an agnostic atheist. I don't deny the possibility that god(s) might exist Neither do I, or most other atheists.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2017 19:20:22 GMT
I don't deny the possibility that god(s) might exist Neither do I, or most other atheists. What is the updated definition of atheism nowadays?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2017 19:21:48 GMT
Neither do I, or most other atheists. What is the updated definition of atheism nowadays? One who does not believe in the existence of a god or gods. Put it this way : if somebody says to you "Do you believe god exists?" and you truthfully answer "Yes", you are a theist. If you truthfully answer with anything else, you are an atheist.
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