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Post by ArArArchStanton on Dec 12, 2017 23:54:46 GMT
That time at the beach was pretty much the ONLY moment she was in danger. And the movie still made him out to be bad enough that we'd still be happy he died. If, say, Steve was a Double Agent playing Diana the whole time and used her to kill someone who was really an Allied Commander, then it'd be a flaw. Show me one, then. It played a part, I'm sorry but I can't ignore that.
Also, just because Diana didn’t monumentally screw something up in the movie (even though she was about to), doesn’t mean she had no flaws. The real problem was the she wasn't the hero. She gave up. |
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Post by Lord Death Man on Dec 13, 2017 2:20:40 GMT
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Also, just because Diana didn’t monumentally screw something up in the movie (even though she was about to), doesn’t mean she had no flaws. The real problem was the she wasn't the hero. She gave up. Wonder Woman, the movie, had lots of flaws and odd choices, none of which detracted from its overall entertainment value. DC characters don't function well if you give them serious flaws aside from Batman. |
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Post by formersamhmd on Dec 13, 2017 2:23:38 GMT
The real problem was the she wasn't the hero. She gave up. Wonder Woman, the movie, had lots of flaws and odd choices, none of which detracted from its overall entertainment value. DC characters don't function well if you give them serious flaws aside from Batman. How can characters work if they have no real flaws? |
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Post by thisguy4000 on Dec 13, 2017 2:29:59 GMT
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Also, just because Diana didn’t monumentally screw something up in the movie (even though she was about to), doesn’t mean she had no flaws. The real problem was the she wasn't the hero. She gave up. She was the one who stepped forward in the No Man’s Land scene, and she was the one who defeated Ares. |
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Post by Lord Death Man on Dec 13, 2017 2:48:30 GMT
Wonder Woman, the movie, had lots of flaws and odd choices, none of which detracted from its overall entertainment value. DC characters don't function well if you give them serious flaws aside from Batman. How can characters work if they have no real flaws? I don't know... Characters in fiction can be rendered in a lot of different ways. You can portray them as flawed people or exacting archetypes. Neither approach is explicitly right or wrong, is it? Most DC characters are based on ideals. The problem with archetypes as characters is that if you want to make them more three dimensional, you can't fundamentally change the nature of the character or you risk creating a new character altogether. What you have to do is make the world they live in more complicated so they can react to it. |
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Dec 13, 2017 2:52:14 GMT
The real problem was the she wasn't the hero. She gave up. She was the one who stepped forward in the No Man’s Land scene, and she was the one who defeated Ares. The No Man's land scene sure, although I'd argue it was weird they were only fighting like 20 guys. I thought it was supposed to be a big army there or something?
And she gave up on Ares. He had to reveal himself, it's not like she found him. Also he gave her the power to defeat him, so I'd argue she really didn't defeat him. It's kind of like a soccer team giving up an own goal in a tie game. I mean I guess the other team won, but it wasn't exactly because they were better. The point is she came off as though she couldn't get the job done.
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Post by thisguy4000 on Dec 13, 2017 2:56:12 GMT
She was the one who stepped forward in the No Man’s Land scene, and she was the one who defeated Ares. The No Man's land scene sure, although I'd argue it was weird they were only fighting like 20 guys. I thought it was supposed to be a big army there or something?
And she gave up on Ares. He had to reveal himself, it's not like she found him. Also he gave her the power to defeat him, so I'd argue she really didn't defeat him. It's kind of like a soccer team giving up an own goal in a tie game. I mean I guess the other team won, but it wasn't exactly because they were better. The point is she came off as though she couldn't get the job done.
The moment before Ares showed up marked her low point. Everything she thought she knew about humanity turned out to be wrong, and her efforts to try and end the war by killing the God of War turned out to be in vain. Also, it was established in the film that she was the only one who could’ve killed Ares. I certainly can’t imagine Steve Trevor deflecting lightning at a God. |
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Dec 13, 2017 3:03:38 GMT
The No Man's land scene sure, although I'd argue it was weird they were only fighting like 20 guys. I thought it was supposed to be a big army there or something?
And she gave up on Ares. He had to reveal himself, it's not like she found him. Also he gave her the power to defeat him, so I'd argue she really didn't defeat him. It's kind of like a soccer team giving up an own goal in a tie game. I mean I guess the other team won, but it wasn't exactly because they were better. The point is she came off as though she couldn't get the job done.
The moment before Ares showed up marked her low point. Everything she thought she knew about humanity turned out to be wrong, and her efforts to try and end the war by killing the God of War turned out to be in vain. Also, it was established in the film that she was the only one who could’ve killed Ares. I certainly can’t imagine Steve Trevor deflecting lightning at a God. Yes, and she did nothing to earn the victory through her own skill. She failed at finding him and had no power to beat him. He gave her both. Seriously, what would have happened if he was working for the Germans. She had no clue. |
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Post by thisguy4000 on Dec 13, 2017 3:27:58 GMT
The moment before Ares showed up marked her low point. Everything she thought she knew about humanity turned out to be wrong, and her efforts to try and end the war by killing the God of War turned out to be in vain. Also, it was established in the film that she was the only one who could’ve killed Ares. I certainly can’t imagine Steve Trevor deflecting lightning at a God. Yes, and she did nothing to earn the victory through her own skill. She failed at finding him and had no power to beat him. He gave her both. Seriously, what would have happened if he was working for the Germans. She had no clue. As far as the power thing is concerned, Diana actually did gain the upper hand on Ares right before he used his lightning. She even knocked off his helmet. |
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Post by formersamhmd on Dec 13, 2017 3:38:42 GMT
Yes, and she did nothing to earn the victory through her own skill. She failed at finding him and had no power to beat him. He gave her both. Seriously, what would have happened if he was working for the Germans. She had no clue. As far as the power thing is concerned, Diana actually did gain the upper hand on Ares right before he used his lightning. She even knocked off his helmet. If he hadn't fired the ONE weapon that had the LEAST chance of working on her at her, she wouldn't have been able to beat him. |
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Dec 13, 2017 3:42:25 GMT
Yes, and she did nothing to earn the victory through her own skill. She failed at finding him and had no power to beat him. He gave her both. Seriously, what would have happened if he was working for the Germans. She had no clue. As far as the power thing is concerned, Diana actually did gain the upper hand on Ares right before he used his lightning. She even knocked off his helmet. I don't know who you're trying to fool. |
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Post by thisguy4000 on Dec 13, 2017 3:45:13 GMT
As far as the power thing is concerned, Diana actually did gain the upper hand on Ares right before he used his lightning. She even knocked off his helmet. If he hadn't fired the ONE weapon that had the LEAST chance of working on her at her, she wouldn't have been able to beat him. If you say so.  |
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Post by thisguy4000 on Dec 13, 2017 3:45:39 GMT
As far as the power thing is concerned, Diana actually did gain the upper hand on Ares right before he used his lightning. She even knocked off his helmet. I don't know who you're trying to fool. She knocked him back before he fired the lightning at her. |
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Dec 13, 2017 3:46:09 GMT
I don't know who you're trying to fool. She knocked him back before he fired the lightning at her. Oh nooooooooo, knocked him back you say? Uh oh. |
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Post by thisguy4000 on Dec 13, 2017 3:55:27 GMT
She knocked him back before he fired the lightning at her. Oh nooooooooo, knocked him back you say? Uh oh. What else was the film required to show? Her beating him to a bloody pulp? |
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Dec 13, 2017 3:56:17 GMT
Oh nooooooooo, knocked him back you say? Uh oh. What else was the film required to show? Her beating him to a bloody pulp? It was required to make her defeating him credible, and it didn't. I don't buy that she beat him for a second. She just did because movie. |
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Post by thisguy4000 on Dec 13, 2017 4:05:31 GMT
What else was the film required to show? Her beating him to a bloody pulp? It was required to make her defeating him credible, and it didn't. I don't buy that she beat him for a second. She just did because movie. She started to turn the fight around after Steve’s sacrifice. That was what culminated in her beating Ares. |
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Dec 13, 2017 4:08:08 GMT
It was required to make her defeating him credible, and it didn't. I don't buy that she beat him for a second. She just did because movie. She started to turn the fight around after Steve’s sacrifice. That was what culminated in her beating Ares. Not until he gave her the power to. |
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Post by thisguy4000 on Dec 13, 2017 4:19:23 GMT
She started to turn the fight around after Steve’s sacrifice. That was what culminated in her beating Ares. Not until he gave her the power to. I figured the implication was that if she was able to deflect his lightning back at him, she likely possessed a good deal of power by that point. |
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Dec 13, 2017 4:24:41 GMT
Not until he gave her the power to. I figured the implication was that if she was able to deflect his lightning back at him, she likely possessed a good deal of power by that point. And yet she couldn't beat him without that. She couldn't even find him. Like I said she had no clue where he was in the slightest, and couldn't have beaten him without him giving her the power to do so. What happened was he screwed up instead of her winning. It's an extremely weird ending if you're trying to establish her as a hero. |
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