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Post by awhina on Mar 8, 2017 0:35:12 GMT
Finding facts in the homosexuality advocacy piece was like panning for gold in Otago, but what I eventually discovered was hardly alarming ! Churches can discriminate in favour of believers in hiring ministers, oh the humanity!
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Post by awhina on Mar 8, 2017 0:37:33 GMT
Religion is always going to be a popular subject for discussion among the non religious because of how it shapes politics and history. The religious need to understand that religion spills over into many areas of life. Such as?
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puvo
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Post by puvo on Mar 8, 2017 1:01:05 GMT
Finding facts in the homosexuality advocacy piece was like panning for gold in Otago, but what I eventually discovered was hardly alarming ! Churches can discriminate in favour of believers in hiring ministers, oh the humanity! I love how bad the sources are that you post, and then you go after other peoples sources! Its not just about hiring believers for minsters, they are also exempt from the Sex Discrimination Act in other ways. The SDA is "An Act relating to discrimination on the ground of sex, sexual orientation, gender identity, intersex status, marital or relationship status, pregnancy, potential pregnancy, breastfeeding or family responsibilities or involving sexual harassment". It is not unlawful for religious bodies, or other religious education institutions to: "discriminate against another person on the ground of the other person’s sex, sexual orientation, gender identity, marital or relationship status or pregnancy in connection with employment as a member of the staff of an educational institution that is conducted in accordance with the doctrines, tenets, beliefs or teachings of a particular religion or creed, if the first‑mentioned person so discriminates in good faith in order to avoid injury to the religious susceptibilities of adherents of that religion or creed" www.legislation.gov.au/Details/C2016C00880(have fun attempting to dismiss that as a source) That means you can lose your job at a religious school/hospital etc on the grounds of getting pregnant out of wedlock etc. Same with contractors! You asked the question "Where's your proof that religious people try to claim exemption from any laws?". You have been given an example answer, including the actual legislation showing religious bodies exemptions from a particular law. I cant wait to see how you deny the undeniable this time!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2017 2:17:54 GMT
Finding facts in the homosexuality advocacy piece was like panning for gold in Otago, but what I eventually discovered was hardly alarming ! Churches can discriminate in favour of believers in hiring ministers, oh the humanity! I love how bad the sources are that you post, and then you go after other peoples sources! Its not just about hiring believers for minsters, they are also exempt from the Sex Discrimination Act in other ways. The SDA is "An Act relating to discrimination on the ground of sex, sexual orientation, gender identity, intersex status, marital or relationship status, pregnancy, potential pregnancy, breastfeeding or family responsibilities or involving sexual harassment". It is not unlawful for religious bodies, or other religious education institutions to: "discriminate against another person on the ground of the other person’s sex, sexual orientation, gender identity, marital or relationship status or pregnancy in connection with employment as a member of the staff of an educational institution that is conducted in accordance with the doctrines, tenets, beliefs or teachings of a particular religion or creed, if the first‑mentioned person so discriminates in good faith in order to avoid injury to the religious susceptibilities of adherents of that religion or creed" www.legislation.gov.au/Details/C2016C00880(have fun attempting to dismiss that as a source) That means you can lose your job at a religious school/hospital etc on the grounds of getting pregnant out of wedlock etc. Same with contractors!You asked the question "Where's your proof that religious people try to claim exemption from any laws?". You have been given an example answer, including the actual legislation showing religious bodies exemptions from a particular law. I cant wait to see how you deny the undeniable this time! The U.S. government can't force people to believe or act in favor of any belief system. To insist that a pregnant woman should be allowed to continue to work at a school or elsewhere whose owners believe certain things against the matter is to enforce those people to act against what they believe in, which in the example you use is political correctness, a belief system.
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althea
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Post by althea on Mar 8, 2017 4:13:30 GMT
Where's your proof that religious people try to claim exemption from any laws? Please note that attempts don't harm you and don't count. What has homosexual "marriage" got to do with the discussion? There are religious exemptions in discrimination laws here in Aus. Do you mean the ones that let religious groups discriminate based upon their religious values? For example, letting Catholic schools refuse to hire someone based on the fact they're an unmarried parent or gay or a member of a different religion (or no religion at all)? IMHO, the biggest problem is the Christians increasingly trying to impose their beliefs on our secular society in an attempt to convince the rest of us we're a Christian nation. We used to mock the US for their religious right, but these days we're letting our own hold us to ransom.
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Post by lowtacks86 on Mar 8, 2017 4:17:57 GMT
OK we'll make a pact. Atheists stay away from Christianity and Christians stay away from rock music. Deal?
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althea
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Post by althea on Mar 8, 2017 4:29:11 GMT
The U.S. government can't force people to believe or act in favor of any belief system. To insist that a pregnant woman should be allowed to continue to work at a school or elsewhere whose owners believe certain things against the matter is to enforce those people to act against what they believe in, which in the example you use is political correctness, a belief system. What do exemptions to anti-discrimination law in Australia have to do with the US government? Section 116 of our constitution reads very similarly to the relevant part about religious freedom in the US constitution, but it is interpreted differently here. I agree that schools established to educate children in line with a religious belief should be able to require staff to live accordingly, but not for the reasons you state. Basically, I see such exemptions as religious tolerance. But then, I have a family member who is gay and teaches in a catholic primary school. I don't know if she hides it from her employer, or if they just take a similar attitude to the "don't ask, don't tell" rule they have in some armed forces.
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puvo
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Post by puvo on Mar 8, 2017 9:05:47 GMT
There are religious exemptions in discrimination laws here in Aus. Do you mean the ones that let religious groups discriminate based upon their religious values? For example, letting Catholic schools refuse to hire someone based on the fact they're an unmarried parent or gay or a member of a different religion (or no religion at all)? IMHO, the biggest problem is the Christians increasingly trying to impose their beliefs on our secular society in an attempt to convince the rest of us we're a Christian nation. We used to mock the US for their religious right, but these days we're letting our own hold us to ransom. Correct.
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Post by Jonesy1 on Mar 8, 2017 9:14:18 GMT
OK we'll make a pact. Atheists stay away from Christianity and Christians stay away from rock music. Deal? No deal. I love rock music.
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Post by awhina on Mar 8, 2017 9:46:16 GMT
OK we'll make a pact. Atheists stay away from Christianity and Christians stay away from rock music. Deal? Why do you think rock music belongs to you?
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Post by awhina on Mar 8, 2017 9:49:21 GMT
OK we'll make a pact. Atheists stay away from Christianity and Christians stay away from rock music. Deal? No deal. I love rock music. ?? What does what he said have to do with you? Oh wait - are you saying that you're a Christian?
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Post by Jonesy1 on Mar 8, 2017 10:01:56 GMT
No deal. I love rock music. ?? What does what he said have to do with you? Oh wait - are you saying that you're a Christian? Of course. Are you going to be obnoxious and pretend you have the right to tell me I'm not?
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Post by awhina on Mar 8, 2017 10:24:09 GMT
Some religious people have a hard time minding their own business as evidenced by efforts to convert others or influence laws for non religious people. As far as conversions go, I argue that religious people should be letting their scriptures and teachings speak for them. If people are interested in spiritual matters these days they can research all churches near them on the internet. Attempting to convert people face to face when they have access to the internet is like saying 'I don't think you're smart enough to research and make your own decision when it comes to religion'. If you have to convince someone that what you say is the truth then maybe it isn't the truth. Apply that principle to your own obsessions Sam.
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Mar 8, 2017 12:21:22 GMT
Opie said this: This is the dishonest part, always has been and always will be, and I'm surprised you would think that I wouldn't think this is a ridiculous statement even if you're fine with it. Atheists are more than welcome to run for office in Kentucky, whether there is a law in the books or not. I was being nice by ignoring the example that I assume was chosen since it's the state I live but was also either a sign of desperation of woeful ignorance.Let's make this clear - Because the USA is not a sucky country and you can do whatever you want in relation to belief or nonbelief a person CANNOT be stopped from running for office regardless of the state law that no one pays attention to. You are being dishonest in suggesting that KY recently made this a rule unless you can find a link. I couldn;t even find a place where they had the law 100 years ago much less "recently".
The bigger problem with atheists and running for office deals with their own cowardice by not bothering to run. In any event, let's assume that no one likes an atheist. Not being liked is not the same as being forced to do anything. It takes no special bravery to be an atheist nor to challenge religious groups online or anywhere else. I have no issues with whiny dishonest atheist blabbering on since I can either easily counter them or easily ignore them. However, people like that should be honest in saying they are doing so simply because they want to. There are no real issues between the religious and non-religious. Are there pockets of conflict? Of course, but who cares if the majority of people are living their day fine and it is a lie to say most aren't. It's already happening in far greater ways than with atheists by redistricting and disqualifying people from holding office when job changes conflict with their beliefs. You don't see me raising a stinking about that. I don't usually respond to everything because I focus on the nugget and/or real information. I am spending this time right now talking about it because I have an hour to kill that I normally don;t have at any given time. There has nevver been anything you or others said that if brought up over and over again, I won't eventually address some day. This isn't an issue. Look, a person has the right to disagree, insult, make fun of, & dismiss any ideal they want to. That does not in any way mean the person being insulted is persecuted which is why it is perfectly acceptable for whiny atheist to not leave the religious alone. Barring a sucky country example, the point I'm making is that a person who pretends that they are compelled to attack Christians on the basis of the persecution they face is a liar. It's that simple. It is time for what are probably some grumpy white dudes with high IQ's and above average income (According to atheist stats floating around here) to grow up and have fun with their hatred of religion rather than blame me for that hatred as of I would actually want them coming to my church with that lousy attitude. I am perfectly fine with them remaining wicked with no planned Crusades in Lexington at least.
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Post by tickingmask on Mar 8, 2017 12:56:24 GMT
Look, a person has the right to disagree, insult, make fun of, & dismiss any ideal they want to. That does not in any way mean the person being insulted is persecuted which is why it is perfectly acceptable for whiny atheist to not leave the religious alone. I think you meant "the person doing the insulting" rather than "the person being insulted", but otherwise, well said. I would defend, to my utmost capacity, the right of anybody to be as much of a dick as they want about religious people. But when they try to justify their dickishness by saying words to the effect: "Oooh, I'm not normally this much of a dick, I'm a nice person normally, but religious people are soooooo mean to me, waaaaaah!" then I call that just pathetic. I wish they'd just man up and take responsibility for the things they say.
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Post by cupcakes on Mar 8, 2017 13:18:25 GMT
tpfkar It's only ridiculous in your ridiculous working it as meaning every single religious person, to which you ridiculously countered as not true because you say it doesn't apply to you, however debatable that is. And some ridiculous standard conservative babble about things being worse elsewhere. And you could cut you reply in half if you left out the half of the whiny aggrievement. She's Not a Christian!
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PanLeo
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Post by PanLeo on Mar 8, 2017 14:03:18 GMT
This is what we call democracy. You're not normally a fan of democracy. The majority of people in Northern Ireland want to remain part of the UK. That's democracy. Your solution? Kill innocent children and hope that changes people's minds somehow. The majority of people in London voted against Brexit. Should the EU invade London, occupy it and claim ownership over it? No my solution was to enage in an armed campaign against British imperialism in Ireland in order to bring about the liberation of the Irish people from British rule. Also you're poisoning the well by the way.
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Mar 8, 2017 14:38:57 GMT
tpfkar It's only ridiculous in your ridiculous working it as meaning every single religious person, to which you ridiculously countered as not true because you say it doesn't apply to you, however debatable that is. And some ridiculous standard conservative babble about things being worse elsewhere. And you could cut you reply in half if you left out the half of the whiny aggrievement. She's Not a Christian!www.grammar-monster.com/glossary/definite_article.htm
So what is he specifically talking about when he discusses the religious?
Educate me on what "the" means when explained by a whiny atheist.
This is why I have been so nice in the past to delineate the different types of atheists out there.
When someone blames the religious for their need to chastise the religious, I'm not sure why I would be expected to assume anything other than Opie and others of his ilk talking about the religious.
Enlighten me!
Otherwise, I would expect Opie to apologize for his own improper use of words.
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Post by cupcakes on Mar 8, 2017 14:44:10 GMT
tpfkar Typical disingenuous apologist whining on with technicalities in the futile but humorous scramble to bury an uncomfortable point. BAM, you're enlightened. She's Not a Christian!
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Post by OldSamVimes on Mar 8, 2017 14:44:12 GMT
Apply that principle to your own obsessions Sam. Oh look.. the culturally obsolete bigot wants some attention again. Here you go bigot. Is this enough for you to get your seat wet yet? Look! Someone is paying attention to you!
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