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Post by coldenhaulfield on Dec 18, 2017 15:13:40 GMT
Who's this toolbox? Go watch Bambi with your mom. Apologies to everyone that this guy exists on this earth. Dude, incase you've already forgotten (apparently), I'm a harsh critic of the sequel trilogy too. I just don't really need to insult the opposition when I can attack and rip apart their pro- arguments. I know. I was just being a dick.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2017 16:07:21 GMT
Who's this toolbox? Go watch Bambi with your mom. Apologies to everyone that this guy exists on this earth. Dude, incase you've already forgotten (apparently), I'm a harsh critic of the sequel trilogy too. I just don't really need to insult the opposition when I can attack and rip apart their pro- arguments. All arguments aside, it's about time you got a face.
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Post by mcufan on Dec 18, 2017 16:13:06 GMT
See? you presume you are a cultured person, and assume you know to whom you are talking, but actually, you know nothing. I don't assume anything. I know for a fact that anyone stupid enough to call herself "MCUfan" is cinematically bereft. (Even though you're almost definitely a sock.) We all have our "guilty" pleasures...
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2017 16:28:15 GMT
For me, in a nutshell:
Regardless of its flaws, the saga had tremendous stories driving the first six episodes.
The stories in the ST suck.
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Post by simplemoviecommenter on Dec 18, 2017 16:46:59 GMT
Dude, incase you've already forgotten (apparently), I'm a harsh critic of the sequel trilogy too. I just don't really need to insult the opposition when I can attack and rip apart their pro- arguments. All arguments aside, it's about time you got a face. Too lazy and indecisive. But I'll see what I can do.
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Post by Jedan Archer on Dec 18, 2017 17:02:13 GMT
I loved this movie. ...Kylo Ren has more emotional depth through the first two movies of this new trilogy than any other character in Star Wars film history. Some of you may laugh at that, but argue it. He is a truly flawed character that is actually written well.
Ok, let's do some writing theory. Tell me:
1. What is Kylo Ren's motivation to be evil?
You know what motivation means right? Comparing him to Luke/Leia/Han is silly, you must compare Kylo to the characters he is a copy of: Anakin. Anakins motivation is that he had already formed attachments when found by the Jedi (I), but was not allowed to have them (I/II/III) resulting in fear of loss and guilt. That impacted his relationship mother and his wife (II/III): he wanted to have the power to save the ones he loves, the "shaddow of greed". He wanted to save his wife and more power. Fear<Anger<Hate< Suffering
So what is Kylo Ren's motivation to become evil...or to become even more evil (after genocide) by killing everybody, including his father?
2. Related question: why does Kylo pray to Vader to protecthim from the "light"? I mean Vader of all people, he is famous for turning to the light and destroying the Sith, and he is hovering around as light side Force ghost.."
Is Kylo retarded?
All answers you will come up with will be mere speculation, pseudo-motivation or invention. This is what you call "more emotional depth" and "actually written well"...
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2017 17:11:54 GMT
All arguments aside, it's about time you got a face. Too lazy and indecisive. But I'll see what I can do. You comment way to much to remain faceless. Show us those pearly whites!
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Post by outrider127 on Dec 18, 2017 18:43:49 GMT
I loved this movie. I do not get the insane amount of hate for it. I would say that, at worst, it is the third best Star Wars movie. I know it sounds crazy, but I really believe that. I just watched the OT again too for comparison sake, even though I have seen them so many times. Is the movie perfect? No. The Leia scene was beyond terrible. I will admit that. Finn and the Asian chick were just okay too and the Casino planet was a waste. Fair enough. End gripes. The rest of the movie was very well done. It opens with the best space battle ever put on screen. I am not sure that can even be argued. Kylo Ren has more emotional depth through the first two movies of this new trilogy than any other character in Star Wars film history. Some of you may laugh at that, but argue it. He is a truly flawed character that is actually written well. As much as I love Han, Luke, and Leia, were they really written well? Did they really have depth? No. They are just cool characters from our favorite childhood films.
People use strong nostalgia when watching Star Wars movies now. Empire was almost perfect, but A New Hope and Return of the Jedi have a ton of problems and cheesy scenes. Sure, I still love these films, but just saying. Many of the complaints I have read are the same complaints you would have about the OT if it were not for nostalgia. The Last Jedi has some issues, but it was written well for the most part, the acting was good, and Kylo is a great character. The special effects were great too. I loved the movie and feel it is one of, if not the best, Star Wars movie. People saying it is the worst one must be smoking something better than I have ever been able to get. No one is complaining about the fantastic space battles or Kylo or Rey--but Finn and Rose were not "just ok" lol, the whole sub plot was revealed to be pointless, and even worse, rebel soldiers died because of them!--Hux seen as a buffoon, Luke whining, Finn/Rose kiss lol, Leia lives, Luke dies, Snoke getting knocked off early etc---56% audience approval RT rating, while TFA has 88% and ROTJ has 94%--Even AOTC has a 57% rating
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Post by mcufan on Dec 18, 2017 19:39:04 GMT
I loved this movie. I do not get the insane amount of hate for it. I would say that, at worst, it is the third best Star Wars movie. I know it sounds crazy, but I really believe that. I just watched the OT again too for comparison sake, even though I have seen them so many times. Is the movie perfect? No. The Leia scene was beyond terrible. I will admit that. Finn and the Asian chick were just okay too and the Casino planet was a waste. Fair enough. End gripes. The rest of the movie was very well done. It opens with the best space battle ever put on screen. I am not sure that can even be argued. Kylo Ren has more emotional depth through the first two movies of this new trilogy than any other character in Star Wars film history. Some of you may laugh at that, but argue it. He is a truly flawed character that is actually written well. As much as I love Han, Luke, and Leia, were they really written well? Did they really have depth? No. They are just cool characters from our favorite childhood films.
People use strong nostalgia when watching Star Wars movies now. Empire was almost perfect, but A New Hope and Return of the Jedi have a ton of problems and cheesy scenes. Sure, I still love these films, but just saying. Many of the complaints I have read are the same complaints you would have about the OT if it were not for nostalgia. The Last Jedi has some issues, but it was written well for the most part, the acting was good, and Kylo is a great character. The special effects were great too. I loved the movie and feel it is one of, if not the best, Star Wars movie. People saying it is the worst one must be smoking something better than I have ever been able to get. No one is complaining about the fantastic space battles or Kylo or Rey--but Finn and Rose were not "just ok" lol, the whole sub plot was revealed to be pointless, and even worse, rebel soldiers died because of them!--Hux seen as a buffoon, Luke whining, Finn/Rose kiss lol, Leia lives, Luke dies, Snoke getting knocked off early etc---56% audience approval RT rating, while TFA has 88% and ROTJ has 94%--Even AOTC has a 57% rating Actually they died because of POE not Finn
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Post by kuatorises on Dec 18, 2017 19:53:55 GMT
I think there are a lot of people on both sides really exaggerating. I think the Rotten Tomatoes critics score is way off, but I'd also said the same thing about the fan score. I think there is a certain part of the fan base who are determined to hate it before they even see it – or see it at all. Cough, cough, Colden's crew. These are strange little man who have some bizarre loyalty to Lucas.
I think the movie was very slow at times, particularly early on. Finn and Rose were kind of cringe worthy. I did love certain things about it. I liked the fact that the rebels were being chased through space. They were literally on the run the entire movie. It wasn't some stereotypical space battle. I also liked Snoke's death. I thought that was pretty rad actually. Kylo knew he couldn't beat him head-to-head, so he did whatever it took to win. It's different from the stereo typical – if not cliché – standard one-on-one fight. The same can be said about his confrontation with Luke. Where we all hoping to see Luke be all-powerful? I think most of us were, but this different direction didn't actually bother me. Plus, there's still a chance we could see him in action in flashback scenes, which I actually think we should see. I want to see how he and Snoke met and how everything with Ben unfolded.
The first movie was better, but this is still miles better than the crap Lucas gave us with the prequels.
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ryboto
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Post by ryboto on Dec 18, 2017 19:59:35 GMT
I think there are a lot of people on both sides really exaggerating. I think the Rotten Tomatoes critics score is way off, but I'd also said the same thing about the fan score. I think there is a certain part of the fan base who are determined to hate it before they even see it – or see it at all. Cough, cough, Colden's crew. These are strange little man who have some bizarre loyalty to Lucas.I think the movie was very slow at times, particularly early on. Finn and Rose were kind of cringe worthy. I did love certain things about it. I liked the fact that the rebels were being chased through space. They were literally on the run the entire movie. It wasn't some stereotypical space battle. I also liked Snoke's death. I thought that was pretty rad actually. Kylo knew he couldn't beat him head-to-head, so he did whatever it took to win. It's different from the stereo typical – if not cliché – standard one-on-one fight. The same can be said about his confrontation with Luke. Where we all hoping to see Luke be all-powerful? I think most of us were, but this different direction didn't actually bother me. Plus, there's still a chance we could see him in action in flashback scenes, which I actually think we should see. I want to see how he and Snoke met and how everything with Ben unfolded. The first movie was better, but this is still miles better than the crap Lucas gave us with the prequels. If I think the new characters and direction sucks ass it means I have some loyalty to Lucas?
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Dec 18, 2017 20:29:29 GMT
I think there are a lot of people on both sides really exaggerating. I think the Rotten Tomatoes critics score is way off, but I'd also said the same thing about the fan score. I think there is a certain part of the fan base who are determined to hate it before they even see it – or see it at all. Cough, cough, Colden's crew. These are strange little man who have some bizarre loyalty to Lucas. I think the movie was very slow at times, particularly early on. Finn and Rose were kind of cringe worthy. I did love certain things about it. I liked the fact that the rebels were being chased through space. They were literally on the run the entire movie. It wasn't some stereotypical space battle. I also liked Snoke's death. I thought that was pretty rad actually. Kylo knew he couldn't beat him head-to-head, so he did whatever it took to win. It's different from the stereo typical – if not cliché – standard one-on-one fight. The same can be said about his confrontation with Luke. Where we all hoping to see Luke be all-powerful? I think most of us were, but this different direction didn't actually bother me. Plus, there's still a chance we could see him in action in flashback scenes, which I actually think we should see. I want to see how he and Snoke met and how everything with Ben unfolded. The first movie was better, but this is still miles better than the crap Lucas gave us with the prequels. Huge Star Wars fan here. I liked TFA when it came out, but upon subsequent viewings I started not liking it for a myriad of reasons. It didn't affect my excitement for TLJ. I want to like my Star Wars movies. Hell, I loved Rogue One. So while I can't say there aren't people who wanted to hate it and so they did, I think it's safe to say there's a large segment of the audience who were going to love it no matter what because Star Wars. The problem I have with your take is that it makes a lot of assumptions about the people who didn't like the movie. I didn't want Bad Ass Luke tearing the club up, but I didn't want this doofus cracking jokes either. It was a terrible take on the character. He turned Darth Vader back to the light, but he was going to kill (even for a moment) his nephew in his sleep because he seemed like a bad egg? Mark Hamill agrees with me, he's been very upfront since before the film came out that he disagrees with what they do with his character in this film. The death of Snoke was clever, the problem is it came too soon. The mystery surrounding him is irrelevant, his scenes in both movies aren't going to age well at all. Same as all the hype (built into the movie mind you, not just fan speculation) surrounding Rey's parentage. I dig that she's not related to anybody. But why string us along? We didn't know Luke was Vader's son and we followed him anyway (and he was a lot more whiny than Rey!). Why the mystery that went nowhere? I'll tell you why, filler. It distracts the audience from the fact that there's no story to speak of here. The First Order casually follows the Resistance for a few days (? Not really sure how long that took) instead of just surrounding and destroying them, while a few characters go on a side mission that doesn't amount to anything affecting the story itself. It's all just filler. I don't hold anything against people who enjoyed it, I just don't understand how they did. It's so goofy and poorly written. I think it's on par with the prequels, it really is that bad. Did anyone else notice the 100% intentional nod to Titanic? "Why did you do that Rose, that was so stupid!" The Rose character is in a dead heat with Jar Jar for worst Star Wars character ever. I don't know if it was them trying to be progressive by making her mentally disabled, but that's definitely how the character came across.
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Post by agentsparky on Dec 18, 2017 20:43:12 GMT
This, my friends, is the dumbest comment of the day. Congrats. Uh, no, that would be your simpering bitch love letter to Rian Johnson in the OP. Trump would be ashamed of your vulnerability and cowardice. And he would hate TLJ. How do you know Trump hated The Last Jedi? Did he tweet his review?
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Post by gungfugilman on Dec 18, 2017 22:43:58 GMT
I loved this movie. I do not get the insane amount of hate for it. I would say that, at worst, it is the third best Star Wars movie. I know it sounds crazy, but I really believe that. I just watched the OT again too for comparison sake, even though I have seen them so many times. Is the movie perfect? No. The Leia scene was beyond terrible. I will admit that. Finn and the Asian chick were just okay too and the Casino planet was a waste. Fair enough. End gripes. The rest of the movie was very well done. It opens with the best space battle ever put on screen. I am not sure that can even be argued. Kylo Ren has more emotional depth through the first two movies of this new trilogy than any other character in Star Wars film history. Some of you may laugh at that, but argue it. He is a truly flawed character that is actually written well. As much as I love Han, Luke, and Leia, were they really written well? Did they really have depth? No. They are just cool characters from our favorite childhood films.
People use strong nostalgia when watching Star Wars movies now. Empire was almost perfect, but A New Hope and Return of the Jedi have a ton of problems and cheesy scenes. Sure, I still love these films, but just saying. Many of the complaints I have read are the same complaints you would have about the OT if it were not for nostalgia. The Last Jedi has some issues, but it was written well for the most part, the acting was good, and Kylo is a great character. The special effects were great too. I loved the movie and feel it is one of, if not the best, Star Wars movie. People saying it is the worst one must be smoking something better than I have ever been able to get. I liked it. It wasn't perfect, but the beginning reminded me of a good Galactica episode. Everybody was given a little story arc and a chance to shine, the action and effects were great, and there were some genuine surprises by the end.
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Post by kuatorises on Dec 19, 2017 18:13:01 GMT
I think there are a lot of people on both sides really exaggerating. I think the Rotten Tomatoes critics score is way off, but I'd also said the same thing about the fan score. I think there is a certain part of the fan base who are determined to hate it before they even see it – or see it at all. Cough, cough, Colden's crew. These are strange little man who have some bizarre loyalty to Lucas. I think the movie was very slow at times, particularly early on. Finn and Rose were kind of cringe worthy. I did love certain things about it. I liked the fact that the rebels were being chased through space. They were literally on the run the entire movie. It wasn't some stereotypical space battle. I also liked Snoke's death. I thought that was pretty rad actually. Kylo knew he couldn't beat him head-to-head, so he did whatever it took to win. It's different from the stereo typical – if not cliché – standard one-on-one fight. The same can be said about his confrontation with Luke. Where we all hoping to see Luke be all-powerful? I think most of us were, but this different direction didn't actually bother me. Plus, there's still a chance we could see him in action in flashback scenes, which I actually think we should see. I want to see how he and Snoke met and how everything with Ben unfolded. The first movie was better, but this is still miles better than the crap Lucas gave us with the prequels. Huge Star Wars fan here. I liked TFA when it came out, but upon subsequent viewings I started not liking it for a myriad of reasons. It didn't affect my excitement for TLJ. I want to like my Star Wars movies. Hell, I loved Rogue One. So while I can't say there aren't people who wanted to hate it and so they did, I think it's safe to say there's a large segment of the audience who were going to love it no matter what because Star Wars. The problem I have with your take is that it makes a lot of assumptions about the people who didn't like the movie. I didn't want Bad Ass Luke tearing the club up, but I didn't want this doofus cracking jokes either. It was a terrible take on the character. He turned Darth Vader back to the light, but he was going to kill (even for a moment) his nephew in his sleep because he seemed like a bad egg? Mark Hamill agrees with me, he's been very upfront since before the film came out that he disagrees with what they do with his character in this film. The death of Snoke was clever, the problem is it came too soon. The mystery surrounding him is irrelevant, his scenes in both movies aren't going to age well at all. Same as all the hype (built into the movie mind you, not just fan speculation) surrounding Rey's parentage. I dig that she's not related to anybody. But why string us along? We didn't know Luke was Vader's son and we followed him anyway (and he was a lot more whiny than Rey!). Why the mystery that went nowhere? I'll tell you why, filler. It distracts the audience from the fact that there's no story to speak of here. The First Order casually follows the Resistance for a few days (? Not really sure how long that took) instead of just surrounding and destroying them, while a few characters go on a side mission that doesn't amount to anything affecting the story itself. It's all just filler. I don't hold anything against people who enjoyed it, I just don't understand how they did. It's so goofy and poorly written. I think it's on par with the prequels, it really is that bad.
Did anyone else notice the 100% intentional nod to Titanic? "Why did you do that Rose, that was so stupid!" The Rose character is in a dead heat with Jar Jar for worst Star Wars character ever. I don't know if it was them trying to be progressive by making her mentally disabled, but that's definitely how the character came across. I said a certain part of the fan base, I'm not talking about every single person who disliked it. I myself didn't love it. Doofus, eh? You mean like when Luke first met Yoda? I personally have always hated that Luke felt the need to save Vader. I thought it was selfish and if he wasn't so closely related to Vader, he wouldn't even have a bothered. Him considering murdering Ben makes him more human IMO. He was always one of my favorite characters, but I hated how robotic he was in Return of the Jedi. I hate that Rey felt the need to save Ben too. I thought the timing was pretty damn brilliant. No one expected it to happen and it served the purpose of showing what kind of person Kylo Ren is. People didn't care about them anyway. He was on screen for about seven minutes in the first movie and people, unfairly, said how bad he sucked. I would like to see more about him in flashbacks though. I do want to know how he knew Luke and corrupted Ben though. what were they supposed to do? Introduce her in the first movie and say okay by the way, her parents weren't anybody famous or special. The character is an orphan, it's highly likely they're going to at the very least have her ponder where she came from. I think it was kind of jarring. Everyone expected her to be related to someone from a previous movie or at least someone well known. I can say with confidence that I thought this was my least favorite of the new movies and it still doesn't come close to the awful movies that are the prequel's.
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Post by lenlenlen1 on Dec 19, 2017 18:20:28 GMT
Embarrassing troll post from a Disney shill and SJW... That's completely unfair, and now You're the one being a dick.
The movie being owned by Disney, and politics, have nothing to do with why this movie failed to reach you/us.
The director made decisions that we disagree with. Its on Rian Johnsons shoulders that he failed to give us a few fan moments to feel good about. A few answers to a few questions, and Luke kicking some ass before dying, would have made this movie work just fine.
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Post by lenlenlen1 on Dec 19, 2017 18:22:38 GMT
I don't even have to see it to know ATOC is better. If you haven't seen it you don't get to talk about it. At best your opinion is un-informed.
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Dec 19, 2017 19:36:18 GMT
Huge Star Wars fan here. I liked TFA when it came out, but upon subsequent viewings I started not liking it for a myriad of reasons. It didn't affect my excitement for TLJ. I want to like my Star Wars movies. Hell, I loved Rogue One. So while I can't say there aren't people who wanted to hate it and so they did, I think it's safe to say there's a large segment of the audience who were going to love it no matter what because Star Wars. The problem I have with your take is that it makes a lot of assumptions about the people who didn't like the movie. I didn't want Bad Ass Luke tearing the club up, but I didn't want this doofus cracking jokes either. It was a terrible take on the character. He turned Darth Vader back to the light, but he was going to kill (even for a moment) his nephew in his sleep because he seemed like a bad egg? Mark Hamill agrees with me, he's been very upfront since before the film came out that he disagrees with what they do with his character in this film. The death of Snoke was clever, the problem is it came too soon. The mystery surrounding him is irrelevant, his scenes in both movies aren't going to age well at all. Same as all the hype (built into the movie mind you, not just fan speculation) surrounding Rey's parentage. I dig that she's not related to anybody. But why string us along? We didn't know Luke was Vader's son and we followed him anyway (and he was a lot more whiny than Rey!). Why the mystery that went nowhere? I'll tell you why, filler. It distracts the audience from the fact that there's no story to speak of here. The First Order casually follows the Resistance for a few days (? Not really sure how long that took) instead of just surrounding and destroying them, while a few characters go on a side mission that doesn't amount to anything affecting the story itself. It's all just filler. I don't hold anything against people who enjoyed it, I just don't understand how they did. It's so goofy and poorly written. I think it's on par with the prequels, it really is that bad.
Did anyone else notice the 100% intentional nod to Titanic? "Why did you do that Rose, that was so stupid!" The Rose character is in a dead heat with Jar Jar for worst Star Wars character ever. I don't know if it was them trying to be progressive by making her mentally disabled, but that's definitely how the character came across. I said a certain part of the fan base, I'm not talking about every single person who disliked it. I myself didn't love it. Doofus, eh? You mean like when Luke first met Yoda? I personally have always hated that Luke felt the need to save Vader. I thought it was selfish and if he wasn't so closely related to Vader, he wouldn't even have a bothered. Him considering murdering Ben makes him more human IMO. He was always one of my favorite characters, but I hated how robotic he was in Return of the Jedi. I hate that Rey felt the need to save Ben too. I thought the timing was pretty damn brilliant. No one expected it to happen and it served the purpose of showing what kind of person Kylo Ren is. People didn't care about them anyway. He was on screen for about seven minutes in the first movie and people, unfairly, said how bad he sucked. I would like to see more about him in flashbacks though. I do want to know how he knew Luke and corrupted Ben though. what were they supposed to do? Introduce her in the first movie and say okay by the way, her parents weren't anybody famous or special. The character is an orphan, it's highly likely they're going to at the very least have her ponder where she came from. I think it was kind of jarring. Everyone expected her to be related to someone from a previous movie or at least someone well known. I can say with confidence that I thought this was my least favorite of the new movies and it still doesn't come close to the awful movies that are the prequel's. I kept waiting for that to be the reveal, that Luke was just testing her the way Yoda tested him. But no, he was just a flake. It's one of many creative decisions in this flick that I don't agree with, but that's life. All I can do is hope things improve next time out.
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ryboto
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Post by ryboto on Dec 19, 2017 19:54:13 GMT
I don't even have to see it to know ATOC is better. If you haven't seen it you don't get to talk about it. At best your opinion is un-informed. I've got plenty of spoilers and spoiler reviews to go by. It's worse than the awful I expected it to be...
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Post by lenlenlen1 on Dec 19, 2017 19:58:02 GMT
If you haven't seen it you don't get to talk about it. At best your opinion is un-informed. I've got plenty of spoilers and spoiler reviews to go by. It's worse than the awful I expected it to be... Ok, but what happens if when you finally see this movie (and we know you will) and you actually like it, regardless of the bad press? What then? Wouldn't you have to go back on your word? Your own informed opinion is always best.
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