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Post by Cody™ on Jan 25, 2018 0:05:23 GMT
Skeptics and heretics pay attention now as I will explain this only once.
The concept of the trinity is that God is 3 persons(hypostasis in Greek) and one being(ousia in Greek). This doctrine is taken from a full reading of scripture, from Genesis to Revelation. The verses are balanced out and from that we are given a presentation of God, which the church summarised in a formal philosophical statement at the council of Nicea.
Where's the basis for this you ask.
Well it's simple, we learn in the Old Testament that God is one:
“Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one.”
Deuteronomy 6:4
That there is only one God:
“I am the Lord, and there is no other; apart from me there is no God. I will strengthen you, though you have not acknowledged me,”
Isaiah 45:5
And that we should worship only this one God:
"Do not worship any other god, for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God."
Exodus 34:14
Which means that everything we know about God has to fit within this monotheistic paradigm. Now when we get into the New Testament it's very clear.
The Father is God.
Jesus is God.
"Very truly I tell you," Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born, I am!"
John 8:58
"while we wait for the blessed hope--the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ,"
Titus 2:13
The Holy Spirit is God.
“But Peter said, "Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and to keep back some of the price of the land? While it remained unsold, did it not remain your own? And after it was sold, was it not under your control? Why is it that you have conceived this deed in your heart? You have not lied to men but to God."”
Acts 5:3-4
And these three are persons because they communicate. They speak to one another and they speak to others, showing personhood. Now clearly if there's only one God and when it teaches that the Father is God, the Son is God and Holy Spirit is God. Then that means there has to be some kind of unity amoungst these three persons. This is the conclusion the church fathers came to when studying in-depth the entirety of scripture. They used words like ousia and hypostasis to explain the oneness and the plurality of God.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2018 0:11:19 GMT
Skeptics and heretics pay attention now as I will explain this only once. The concept of the trinity is that God is 3 persons(hypostasis in Greek) and one being(ousia in Greek). This doctrine is taken from a full reading of scripture, from Genesis to Revelation. The verses are balanced out and from that we are given a presentation of God, which the church summarised in a formal philosophical statement at the council of Nicea. Where's the basis for this you ask. Well it's simple, we learn in the Old Testament that God is one: “Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one.”Deuteronomy 6:4That there is only one God: “I am the Lord, and there is no other; apart from me there is no God. I will strengthen you, though you have not acknowledged me,”Isaiah 45:5 And that we should worship only this one God: "Do not worship any other god, for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God."Exodus 34:14Which means that everything we know about God has to fit within this monotheistic paradigm. Now when we get into the New Testament it's very clear. The Father is God. Jesus is God. "Very truly I tell you," Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born, I am!"John 8:58"while we wait for the blessed hope--the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ,"Titus 2:13The Holy Spirit is God. “But Peter said, "Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and to keep back some of the price of the land? While it remained unsold, did it not remain your own? And after it was sold, was it not under your control? Why is it that you have conceived this deed in your heart? You have not lied to men but to God."”Acts 5:3-4 And these three are persons because they communicate. They speak to one another and they speak to others, showing personhood. Now clearly if there's only one God and when it teaches that the Father is God, the Son is God and Holy Spirit is God. Then that means there has to be some kind of unity amoungst these three persons. This is the conclusion the church fathers came to when studying in-depth the entirety of scripture. They used words like ousia and hypostasis to explain the oneness and the plurality of God. Might also be worth noting the concepts of the ontological Trinity and the economic Trinity in your post, as you are bound to get "But Jesus said God was greater than him!" responses. carm.org/ontological-and-economic-trinity |
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Post by Cody™ on Jan 25, 2018 0:36:40 GMT
@zackbop
The term greater can have more than one implication. It can refer to someone being greater in position and authority. For example In Matthew 11:11 Jesus says:
"I tell you the truth: Among those born of women there has not risen anyone greater than John the Baptist; yet he who is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he."
Obviously Jesus is not saying the rest are less human or inferior in nature to John the Baptist. It must mean that John is greater in position and rank. Just as Trump in position and rank is greater than any other American citizen. So when Jesus said the Father is greater and I. He was talking about in position and rank not in nature or essence and this is not a problem for Trinitarianism.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2018 1:15:51 GMT
@zackbop The term greater can have more than one implication. It can refer to someone being greater in position and authority. For example In Matthew 11:11 Jesus says: "I tell you the truth: Among those born of women there has not risen anyone greater than John the Baptist; yet he who is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he."Obviously Jesus is not saying the rest are less human or inferior in nature to John the Baptist. It must mean that John is greater in position and rank. Just as Trump in position and rank is greater than any other American citizen. So when Jesus said the Father is greater and I. He was talking about in position and rank not in nature or essence and this is not a problem for Trinitarianism. Indeed. A simple fact lost on so many. The doctrine of the Trinity isn't neatly articulated within Scripture itself, but it is the conclusion that one would naturally come to (regarding the nature of the Godhead) if one took all of the various claims about "God the Father," "the Lord Jesus Christ," and "the Holy Spirit" into consideration. |
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Post by cupcakes on Jan 25, 2018 16:54:51 GMT
tpfkar Indeed. A simple fact lost on so many. The doctrine of the Trinity isn't neatly articulated within Scripture itself, but it is the conclusion that one would naturally come to (regarding the nature of the Godhead) if one took all of the various claims about "God the Father," "the Lord Jesus Christ," and "the Holy Spirit" into consideration. Or, you've just been indoctrinated by a particular sect to fill in any gibberish they say. 
Fun, fun, fun, fun, Trinity is so fun! |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2018 17:14:40 GMT
tpfkar Indeed. A simple fact lost on so many. The doctrine of the Trinity isn't neatly articulated within Scripture itself, but it is the conclusion that one would naturally come to (regarding the nature of the Godhead) if one took all of the various claims about "God the Father," "the Lord Jesus Christ," and "the Holy Spirit" into consideration. Or, you've just been indoctrinated by a particular sect to fill in any gibberish they say.
Fun, fun, fun, fun, Trinity is so fun! |
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Post by cupcakes on Jan 25, 2018 17:17:24 GMT
tpfkar [ video src="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Vv5CsP1pAg" ][ /video] Great home vid you keep sharing!
Religion Roundtable |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2018 17:19:50 GMT
tpfkar [ video src="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Vv5CsP1pAg" ][ /video] Great home vid you keep sharing!
Religion RoundtableLive vid of you trying to insult WS. Per usual: |
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Post by cupcakes on Jan 25, 2018 17:24:11 GMT
tpfkar Live vid of you trying to insult WS. Which book did you get this particular fantasy from. 
good one! |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2018 17:27:07 GMT
tpfkar Live vid of you trying to insult WS. Which book did you get this particular fantasy from.
good one!SUPA HOT CUPCAKES AT IT AGAIN! OHHH! DEEP BURN.  |
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Post by cupcakes on Jan 25, 2018 17:28:16 GMT
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Post by permutojoe on Jan 27, 2018 1:21:12 GMT
No. Much like the current Christian understanding of who Jesus is/was in general, the Trinity is in the current doctrine but not any historical manuscripts.
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Post by mslo79 on Jan 30, 2018 9:29:52 GMT
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