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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2018 21:23:47 GMT
Someone doesn't understand the difference between physically and psychically. Shocking. Since a large number of those drowned people would have been children, many extremely young children, assigning "pure fucking evil" in order to defend the story is a sign of desperation. It helps to understand everything that was happening during this judgment. The main purpose of the Flood wasn't to wipe out humanity; but rather save humanity. This is self-evident by the fact that eight were plucked out to repopulate the earth and ensure humanity's survival. If you read any of the verses leading up to the Flood, you'd understand that humanity was headed for complete annihilation at the hands of the Nephilim (and humans themselves), which is, of course, part of the larger Satanic plot that runs through the entirety of the Bible following God's "curse" in Genesis.
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Post by theoncomingstorm on Jan 22, 2018 21:25:30 GMT
I'm going with the guy who drowned everybody on the planet except eight people, condoned rape, encouraged slavery and killed a faithful man's entire family just to win a bet with the supposed villain. Then, he supposedly had a change of heart before the second half of the story which began with him psychically raping a teenage virgin. All of your examples except the first one are false, per the text. No, but thanks for playing.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2018 21:34:18 GMT
All of your examples except the first one are false, per the text. No, but thanks for playing. Sure they are. There is not a single verse that condones rape. There are verses that discuss how to behave after a rape has occurred, but none of them condone rape. There is not a single verse that condones slavery. There are verses that indicate how to behave if you find yourself owning slaves or being a slave, and there are those that discuss allowing the Jews to be enslaved by other peoples, but again, this is not to be confused with "condoned." There is a major difference and it goes hand-in-hand with understanding how omniscience and free will walk hand-in-hand. And your more specific allusion to Job is patently false, and, as it so happens, ironic at the same time. For within the story of Job, we find examples of how God can be sovereign and omniscient while his creatures can simultaneously maintain free will, and thus, we can see exactly how evil is executed on earth and how God is not actively involved in its execution.
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Post by theoncomingstorm on Jan 22, 2018 21:41:24 GMT
No, but thanks for playing. Sure they are. There is not a single verse that condones rape. There are verses that discuss how to behave after a rape has occurred, but none of them condone rape. There is not a single verse that condones slavery. There are verses that indicate how to behave if you find yourself owning slaves or being a slave, and there are those that discuss allowing the Jews to be enslaved by other peoples, but again, this is not to be confused with "condoned." There is a major difference and it goes hand-in-hand with understanding how omniscience and free will walk hand-in-hand. And your more specific allusion to Job is patently false, and, as it so happens, ironic at the same time. For within the story of Job, we find examples of how God can be sovereign and omniscient while his creatures can simultaneously maintain free will, and thus, we can see exactly how evil is executed on earth and how God is not actively involved in its execution. You're a liar and an imbecile. "Now kill all the boys and all the women who have slept with a man. Only the young girls who are virgins may live; you may keep them for yourselves." If God didn't condone slavery then the Bible would not tell you how to act if you own slaves it would tell you NOT TO FUCKING OWN SLAVES.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2018 21:51:55 GMT
Sure they are. There is not a single verse that condones rape. There are verses that discuss how to behave after a rape has occurred, but none of them condone rape. There is not a single verse that condones slavery. There are verses that indicate how to behave if you find yourself owning slaves or being a slave, and there are those that discuss allowing the Jews to be enslaved by other peoples, but again, this is not to be confused with "condoned." There is a major difference and it goes hand-in-hand with understanding how omniscience and free will walk hand-in-hand. And your more specific allusion to Job is patently false, and, as it so happens, ironic at the same time. For within the story of Job, we find examples of how God can be sovereign and omniscient while his creatures can simultaneously maintain free will, and thus, we can see exactly how evil is executed on earth and how God is not actively involved in its execution. If God didn't condone slavery then the Bible would not tell you how to act if you own slaves it would tell you NOT TO FUCKING OWN SLAVES. I'm neither of those. You just fail to see the whole perspective. Evil is going to happen. Slavery is evil. Owning a slave in that time period was not the early 19th century American slavery you're making it out to be. Back then, slavery occurred for many causes, some of which were mutually-agreed-upon contracts of indentured servitude to pay off debt. These "slave owners" were not necessarily committing evil, so much as reaping their benefit within a mutally-agreed way of resolving a problem. So for those people, they still need benevolent reminders to treat their servants benevolently. And, as it were, the slave holder you seem to think as the only arch-type to ever exist need the nudging even more, since, as aforementioned, evil is going to happen and God will try to convince even the reprobate mind, at least for a while. The message of the Bible has consistently been one of making the most out of one's current position in life.
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Post by theoncomingstorm on Jan 22, 2018 22:04:23 GMT
If God didn't condone slavery then the Bible would not tell you how to act if you own slaves it would tell you NOT TO FUCKING OWN SLAVES. I'm neither of those. You just fail to see the whole perspective. Evil is going to happen. Slavery is evil. Owning a slave in that time period was not the early 19th century American slavery you're making it out to be. Back then, slavery occurred for many causes, some of which were mutually-agreed-upon contracts of indentured servitude to pay off debt. These "slave owners" were not necessarily committing evil, so much as reaping their benefit within a mutally-agreed way of resolving a problem. So for those people, they still need benevolent reminders to treat their servants benevolently. And, as it were, the slave holder you seem to think as the only arch-type to ever exist need the nudging even more, since, as aforementioned, evil is going to happen and God will try to convince even the reprobate mind, at least for a while. The message of the Bible has consistently been one of making the most out of one's current position in life. Go bother someone else with your habit of making excuses for evil fairy tales.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2018 22:18:19 GMT
I'm neither of those. You just fail to see the whole perspective. Evil is going to happen. Slavery is evil. Owning a slave in that time period was not the early 19th century American slavery you're making it out to be. Back then, slavery occurred for many causes, some of which were mutually-agreed-upon contracts of indentured servitude to pay off debt. These "slave owners" were not necessarily committing evil, so much as reaping their benefit within a mutally-agreed way of resolving a problem. So for those people, they still need benevolent reminders to treat their servants benevolently. And, as it were, the slave holder you seem to think as the only arch-type to ever exist need the nudging even more, since, as aforementioned, evil is going to happen and God will try to convince even the reprobate mind, at least for a while. The message of the Bible has consistently been one of making the most out of one's current position in life. Go bother someone else with your habit of making excuses for evil fairy tales. You're not interested in an adult conversation I can see, so I will do as you ask.
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Post by Isapop on Jan 22, 2018 22:46:45 GMT
And s urviving or not surviving through Armageddon is, of course, where Satan's influence plays a role. Satan needs only to play the role of deceiver. He knows that God will do the actual dirty work of consigning the "many" to the destruction that God has devised (not Satan), sparing only the "few". Satan misleads the many into the pit, but it is God who dug that pit for the purpose of swallowing them. Thus, it's not at all clear that Satan is worse than God.
All of the bolded statements are incorrect per the text being discussed. The particulars, bolded or not, are not that important here. My earlier, more general, comment to the OP matters more, which was:
This is Satan: "I am going to mislead as many as I can away from God." This is God: "I'll go ahead and let Satan mislead as many as he can, and punish everyone he deceives."
What there do you say is "incorrect per the text being discussed" and how (if anything)?
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Post by Vegas on Jan 22, 2018 23:10:00 GMT
The particulars, bolded or not, are not that important here. My earlier, more general, comment to the OP matters more, which was:
This is Satan: "I am going to mislead as many as I can away from God." This is God: "I'll go ahead and let Satan mislead as many as he can, and punish everyone he deceives."
What there do you say is "incorrect per the text being discussed" and how (if anything)?
That's another problem that you have with this... There are more issues at stake than just God: "Yeah.. I'll just let Satan trick as many as he can before I destroy him... because I don't give a sht about humanity." Satan called God a liar. Claimed that Man was better off by not listening to Him. Better off without Him. God is just giving Man (and Satan) enough time to prove that not to be true.. according to the story... and doing it in a way that brings just about everybody that you are crying about back from the dead for a big ol' do ever and the opportunity to live happily ever after. THAT is the story. This has been explained to you numerous times...
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Post by Isapop on Jan 23, 2018 14:20:58 GMT
The particulars, bolded or not, are not that important here. My earlier, more general, comment to the OP matters more, which was:
This is Satan: "I am going to mislead as many as I can away from God." This is God: "I'll go ahead and let Satan mislead as many as he can, and punish everyone he deceives."
What there do you say is "incorrect per the text being discussed" and how (if anything)?
That's another problem that you have with this... There are more issues at stake than just God: "Yeah.. I'll just let Satan trick as many as he can before I destroy him... because I don't give a sht about humanity." Satan called God a liar. Claimed that Man was better off by not listening to Him. Better off without Him. God is just giving Man (and Satan) enough time to prove that not to be true.. according to the story... and doing it in a way that brings just about everybody that you are crying about back from the dead for a big ol' do ever and the opportunity to live happily ever after. THAT is the story. This has been explained to you numerous times... That doesn't dispute what I said. I said Satan was a deceiver.That doesn't dispute what I said, either. You're just offering a limp justification for God's chosen course, "God feels the need to prove something to someone." And that "proof" also includes the thing that you quickly gloss over in the next thing you say...And who's excluded from what you call the "big ol do over"? Only the billions of people and their children who are being deceived by Satan into thinking that they are acceptable to God, but who will instead get the permanent heave-ho from God when he calls, "Time's up!" Sure, why would anyone cry over them? They're getting just what they've got coming, right? I know it has. Just like I've also been given explanations about how children's vaccines cause autism and how Trump's tax bill is designed to benefit the middle class.
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Jan 23, 2018 14:34:46 GMT
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Post by Isapop on Jan 23, 2018 14:51:29 GMT
Yes, you've learned you're better off to sit quietly and not get involved. Since it's now six days after I met your challenge (on your "Faithleaks thread) to back up the charge that the Watchtower Society has been "enabling" child sex abusers. Your silence there stands as your tacit concession.
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Post by Vegas on Jan 23, 2018 15:49:40 GMT
I know it has. Just like I've also been given explanations about how children's vaccines cause autism and how Trump's tax bill is designed to benefit the middle class. I know. All apples are oranges. Like how this has been explained to you that this might not play out how you think it does.... In the story... Time isn't up, yet. You don't know how many people are excluded. And, you don't know how many people God - you know the guy that presented His own son as a sacrifice because He loves people so much - deems what is worthy of exclusion. And, yet again... YOU DO NOT KNOW THE MIND SET OF THE PEOPLE THAT DON'T MAKE IT... It could just a bunch of Nazis. It could be just a bunch of a-holes. What makes them unworthy?... I don't know... And you don't either. The story is that the Creator of all life has the right to decide what makes a person too evil to make it. Actually, the story is that Jesus gets to decide as well.. You know the guy that forgave the people that tortured and killed him.... And, according to the story, some humans.. who, one would hope would be understanding what it's like to be human, also serve as judges... After that: All that is left is you crying - yes, like a little bitch - that you don't think that's fair. You want to decide what's fair? GO CREATE YOUR OWN UNIVERSE AND SHUT THE FCK UP ABOUT THE ONE THAT THE BIBLE TALKS ABOUT. You're beating your own head against your own made up wall... about a story that you deem as made up..
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Jan 23, 2018 15:59:39 GMT
Yes, you've learned you're better off to sit quietly and not get involved. Since it's now six days after I met your challenge (on your "Faithleaks thread) to back up the charge that the Watchtower Society has been "enabling" child sex abusers. Your silence there stands as your tacit concession.
Tell me the rules: Am I supposed to keep talking until you stop talking? i can only assume that I will never win despite never losing. I haven't been back to the thread yet. What did you say that cracked the code?
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Post by general313 on Jan 23, 2018 16:26:35 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2018 16:48:57 GMT
All of the bolded statements are incorrect per the text being discussed. The particulars, bolded or not, are not that important here. My earlier, more general, comment to the OP matters more, which was:
This is Satan: "I am going to mislead as many as I can away from God." This is God: "I'll go ahead and let Satan mislead as many as he can, and punish everyone he deceives."
What there do you say is "incorrect per the text being discussed" and how (if anything)?
You have Satan attributed fairly well. You hit the mark there. Your attribution to God is incorrect per the text. God does not let Satan mislead as many as he can. Whereas Satan has free will and expresses that free will, God seeks to save all who will receive salvation. That's a far cry from the more simplistic attribution you're making as if God has just shrugged his shoulders and is up there in heaven doing nothing. The entirety of the Bible is example after example of God reaching out to save humanity from humanity's self-chosen exile. The second part of your God attribution is also a far cry from reality as dictated in the text. Hell was created for Satan and his angels, not humans. When Adam and Eve sinned, they unwittingly assigned themselves to the rule of Satan. They belonged in his kingdom and under his domain. Satan will be expressing his free will and his authority as a ruler when he admits unrepentant sinners into his domain, per the text. God will allow this because God must keep his word, per the text. The story takes on a much easier-to-understand moral perspective when the idea is accepted that angels were created first, Satan and his angels rebelled, there was war in heaven, Satan was tearing the joint up and God had no choice but to exile him. But the kicker is that God still has patience with old Lucifer and has decided to give him "time" to change his mind. Meanwhile, heaven was down 33% of the population, then (thus?) humans were created. Two worlds collided. And (since Eve's spiritual betrayal and subsequent indentured servitude-like grafting into the Satanic kingdom) they can never tear us apart.
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Post by Isapop on Jan 23, 2018 16:57:50 GMT
I know it has. Just like I've also been given explanations about how children's vaccines cause autism and how Trump's tax bill is designed to benefit the middle class. You continue to refer to what you vaguely call "The Story", as if you'd rather not be clear about just whose story you mean. So, I'll be the one who is clear. You mean The Watchtower's story, their take on the Bible. And I have described what is taught by them and what is available for anyone to see at their website.Explanations that cannot withstand scrutiny can be found in many different fields.
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Post by rachelcarson1953 on Jan 23, 2018 17:07:57 GMT
"In Die Hard, John McClane has the most deaths at his hands than anybody... and everybody sees him as the hero of the movie."
and some of those everybodys also see Die Hard as a "Christmas Movie" .. if that says anything about anything. I like "Die Hard" better than the bible - it's easier to tell the good guys from the bad guys, and it's shorter. And the fact that it's set on Christmas eve? A tongue-in-cheek reference to real life happening while everyone else is in fairy-tale land. Just my opinion.
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Jan 23, 2018 17:27:13 GMT
"In Die Hard, John McClane has the most deaths at his hands than anybody... and everybody sees him as the hero of the movie."
and some of those everybodys also see Die Hard as a "Christmas Movie" .. if that says anything about anything. I like "Die Hard" better than the bible - it's easier to tell the good guys from the bad guys, and it's shorter. And the fact that it's set on Christmas eve? A tongue-in-cheek reference to real life happening while everyone else is in fairy-tale land. Just my opinion. Yeah, you are probably giving the writers too much credit or not enough credit to simply making a great action movie.
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Jan 23, 2018 17:27:53 GMT
You continue to refer to what you vaguely call "The Story", as if you'd rather not be clear about just whose story you mean. So, I'll be the one who is clear. You mean The Watchtower's story, their take on the Bible. And I have described what is taught by them and what is available for anyone to see at their website.Explanations that cannot withstand scrutiny can be found in many different fields. Is this where i should just keep hounding you for an answer or should I do it in another thread to make it more authentic?
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