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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2018 21:23:27 GMT
Totally agree, but why the desire to have any relationship at all? That's what I'm driving at. God is not like us in the sense that he has a natural inclination toward loneliness. After all, that's one of the great things about being a trinity; you're your own companion Ah, I get what you're asking now. That's a great question. My best guess is that God simply WANTED to share his love with a new creation. Maybe it was too good to keep to himself. Yeah, that's my inclination. The idea sprung from his inherent generosity. But it's only a guess. I would love to know the actual answer to that one. I cannot, for the life of me, fathom why he has, at times, regretted his decision. <looks around this board with a sarcastic smile>
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2018 21:24:38 GMT
tpfkar Show me scripture where it is indicated that God infused Adam with the need to "sell wares," or gave him a lust for "wealth," or gave him a lust for power. Where did he get it then? Where did the concepts come from? That's not even biblical!It's your false assertion. You tell me.
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Post by goz on Jan 24, 2018 21:28:09 GMT
I find that comment both interesting and perceptive. Could you perhaps expand on your view? IMHO this is what life in general is about. It does not preclude either striving for advancement by improving your position in life or errors in judgement which lessens it or fate, which can have a more random effect. My only argument with the statement would be if you attribute those things to a higher power. All stations in life, even "the rich man's," come with burdens. We cannot choose what society we are born into and we do not choose how we initially fit into that society. And, admittedly, the most controversial part of life according to a Bible apologist such as I is that we cannot control that we are born into a sinful nature. None of us chose that. We'd probably choose otherwise if we could It just is. So when it comes to the parts of life that "just are," it is God's important message to us to tarry in the roles and nature we were born into, remain patient and vigilant, and to make the most good out of it. Obviously a king can do more good than a pauper, but if your destiny is to be a pauper, choose to be the best pauper you can be. One of the best examples of this is, of course, The Parable of the Talents. As for attribution, I personally attribute mine to God and the people in my life who have supported my journey, putting me in place to invest my "talents." The only credit I can give myself is my role in the choosing, and, even that is diminished considering I have an angelic presence cohabiting my conscience, leading me towards certain decisions. I find it interesting that I agree with much of what you say, yet I am an atheistic agnostic. Hence I differ with the attribution part. My lack of belief in God does not leave a gaping hole however, as I obviously don't deem it necessary to have a higher power. I believe in self determination in almost a Buddhist sense and responsibility for myself, thoughts, actions and conscience. I certainly agree that there is a lot in life ( in fact life itself ) that just 'are' and over which we have no control. I do however, subscribe to making the best of things and striving to be the best we can be, given our personal circumstances.
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Post by cupcakes on Jan 24, 2018 21:30:15 GMT
tpfkar It's your false assertion. You tell me. Does no one have these things? But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2018 21:43:47 GMT
All stations in life, even "the rich man's," come with burdens. We cannot choose what society we are born into and we do not choose how we initially fit into that society. And, admittedly, the most controversial part of life according to a Bible apologist such as I is that we cannot control that we are born into a sinful nature. None of us chose that. We'd probably choose otherwise if we could It just is. So when it comes to the parts of life that "just are," it is God's important message to us to tarry in the roles and nature we were born into, remain patient and vigilant, and to make the most good out of it. Obviously a king can do more good than a pauper, but if your destiny is to be a pauper, choose to be the best pauper you can be. One of the best examples of this is, of course, The Parable of the Talents. As for attribution, I personally attribute mine to God and the people in my life who have supported my journey, putting me in place to invest my "talents." The only credit I can give myself is my role in the choosing, and, even that is diminished considering I have an angelic presence cohabiting my conscience, leading me towards certain decisions. I find it interesting that I agree with much of what you say, yet I am an atheistic agnostic. Hence I differ with the attribution part. My lack of belief in God does not leave a gaping hole however, as I obviously don't deem it necessary to have a higher power. I believe in self determination in almost a Buddhist sense and responsibility for myself, thoughts, actions and conscience. I certainly agree that there is a lot in life ( in fact life itself ) that just 'are' and over which we have no control. I do however, subscribe to making the best of things and striving to be the best we can be, given our personal circumstances. Most organized moral philosophies lead to the same places - at least in terms of temporal behavior - so long as the student is honest. All decent moral philosophies teach humility, for instance. It's from this sense of humility that we share the common bond of thankfulness (you need not thank someone particularly to be thankful) that is required to properly scope the problems of everyday life. And to know that if we ever see the glass half empty, then perhaps we should walk over to the sink and add more water. I'm thankful for people like you, even if I hope some day you will reallocate your attribution.
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Post by goz on Jan 24, 2018 22:01:04 GMT
I find it interesting that I agree with much of what you say, yet I am an atheistic agnostic. Hence I differ with the attribution part. My lack of belief in God does not leave a gaping hole however, as I obviously don't deem it necessary to have a higher power. I believe in self determination in almost a Buddhist sense and responsibility for myself, thoughts, actions and conscience. I certainly agree that there is a lot in life ( in fact life itself ) that just 'are' and over which we have no control. I do however, subscribe to making the best of things and striving to be the best we can be, given our personal circumstances. Most organized moral philosophies lead to the same places - at least in terms of temporal behavior - so long as the student is honest. All decent moral philosophies teach humility, for instance. It's from this sense of humility that we share the common bond of thankfulness (you need not thank someone particularly to be thankful) that is required to properly scope the problems of everyday life. And to know that if we ever see the glass half empty, then perhaps we should walk over to the sink and add more water. I'm thankful for people like you, even if I hope some day you will reallocate your attribution. It is highly unlikely that I will ever believe in a higher power, and certainly not in the sense that religion of any kind promotes. I believe in humans requiring what you refer to as 'decent moral philosophies' and that is where religion and I come unstuck, as there is so much dishonesty and hypocrisy in the practice of religion. They can't all be right so, in my view none of them are right. I am also fascinated by the 'evolution' of human moral philosophies from the basic tribalism and survivalism through to more esoteric moral values such as conscience, justice, empathy etc. I actually see religion as having had a place in that evolution butt feel that it is now outdated and that secular altruism is the way forward, shedding the shackles of religious dogma and hypocrisies within the faiths.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2018 22:17:46 GMT
Most organized moral philosophies lead to the same places - at least in terms of temporal behavior - so long as the student is honest. All decent moral philosophies teach humility, for instance. It's from this sense of humility that we share the common bond of thankfulness (you need not thank someone particularly to be thankful) that is required to properly scope the problems of everyday life. And to know that if we ever see the glass half empty, then perhaps we should walk over to the sink and add more water. I'm thankful for people like you, even if I hope some day you will reallocate your attribution. It is highly unlikely that I will ever believe in a higher power, and certainly not in the sense that religion of any kind promotes. I believe in humans requiring what you refer to as 'decent moral philosophies' and that is where religion and I come unstuck, as there is so much dishonesty and hypocrisy in the practice of religion. They can't all be right so, in my view none of them are right. I am also fascinated by the 'evolution' of human moral philosophies from the basic tribalism and survivalism through to more esoteric moral values such as conscience, justice, empathy etc. I actually see religion as having had a place in that evolution butt feel that it is now outdated and that secular altruism is the way forward, shedding the shackles of religious dogma and hypocrisies within the faiths. I hear you. I don't go to church. When people ask me what denomination I am, I cannot give an answer as none of the denominations perfectly align with my understanding of the Bible. All I can do is say that I stand on the text and nothing but the text. Religion can be troublesome for the same reason church can be. It's not always such, though. Sometimes it's wonderful. Which is more deceitful? Faith or the human brain? I never heard from God directly until I asked him to speak to me directly and believed he would do it. Two years after I asked and believed, he spoke directly to me. If that's power of suggestion, I'm weak-willed. If it's sensory deceit, then I'm a nut. I guess I still have a long ways to go in the old humility department since I am neither comfortable with the idea of being weak-willed (especially when so many people in my life have complained I am the opposite), nor crazy. So I keep shuffling along to the sage, philosophical words of Steve Perry whilst winking that there is no such place as South Detroit.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2018 22:21:22 GMT
tpfkar It's your false assertion. You tell me. Does no one have these things? But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.Do you have them?
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Post by cupcakes on Jan 24, 2018 22:27:17 GMT
tpfkar Does no one have these things? But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.Do you have them? [ img alt="" src="https://i.ytimg.com/vi/LRr94kt8b7s/maxresdefault.jpg"] You guys do like your slithery babble. It was from your story. Now, therefore, kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known a man by lying with him; but all the women-children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2018 22:29:48 GMT
tpfkar Do you have them? You guys do like your slithery babble. It was from your story. Now, therefore, kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known a man by lying with him; but all the women-children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.I've asked this before and I'll ask again: Who are "you guys?" And, again, you are the one building strawmen so it seems fair that you should be the one to talk about the nature of the straw.
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Post by goz on Jan 24, 2018 22:31:46 GMT
It is highly unlikely that I will ever believe in a higher power, and certainly not in the sense that religion of any kind promotes. I believe in humans requiring what you refer to as 'decent moral philosophies' and that is where religion and I come unstuck, as there is so much dishonesty and hypocrisy in the practice of religion. They can't all be right so, in my view none of them are right. I am also fascinated by the 'evolution' of human moral philosophies from the basic tribalism and survivalism through to more esoteric moral values such as conscience, justice, empathy etc. I actually see religion as having had a place in that evolution butt feel that it is now outdated and that secular altruism is the way forward, shedding the shackles of religious dogma and hypocrisies within the faiths. I hear you. I don't go to church. When people ask me what denomination I am, I cannot give an answer as none of the denominations perfectly align with my understanding of the Bible. All I can do is say that I stand on the text and nothing but the text. Religion can be troublesome for the same reason church can be. It's not always such, though. Sometimes it's wonderful. Which is more deceitful? Faith or the human brain? I never heard from God directly until I asked him to speak to me directly and believed he would do it. Two years after I asked and believed, he spoke directly to me. If that's power of suggestion, I'm weak-willed. If it's sensory deceit, then I'm a nut. I guess I still have a long ways to go in the old humility department since I am neither comfortable with the idea of being weak-willed (especially when so many people in my life have complained I am the opposite), nor crazy. So I keep shuffling along to the sage, philosophical words of Steve Perry whilst winking that there is no such place as South Detroit. I think you believe what you want to believe. Sorry, you will have to explain your last sentence as I have no idea who Steve Perry is and I am not American so don't understand the significance of South Detroit.
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Post by cupcakes on Jan 24, 2018 22:34:49 GMT
tpfkar You guys do like your slithery babble. It was from your story. Now, therefore, kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known a man by lying with him; but all the women-children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.I've asked this before and I'll ask again: Who are "you guys?" And, again, you are the one building strawmen so it seems fair that you should be the one to talk about the nature of the straw. Already answered, so go read it. And babble-on! In any case, More like a Creator that made the need to "sell wares", and relative "wealth", and lust for it, and "power", and malevolent kingdoms and kings and even the concept of "chains" and the like, in the first place and at all. The Lord is slow to anger, abounding in love and forgiving sin and rebellion. Yet he does not leave the guilty unpunished; he punishes the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2018 22:37:06 GMT
I hear you. I don't go to church. When people ask me what denomination I am, I cannot give an answer as none of the denominations perfectly align with my understanding of the Bible. All I can do is say that I stand on the text and nothing but the text. Religion can be troublesome for the same reason church can be. It's not always such, though. Sometimes it's wonderful. Which is more deceitful? Faith or the human brain? I never heard from God directly until I asked him to speak to me directly and believed he would do it. Two years after I asked and believed, he spoke directly to me. If that's power of suggestion, I'm weak-willed. If it's sensory deceit, then I'm a nut. I guess I still have a long ways to go in the old humility department since I am neither comfortable with the idea of being weak-willed (especially when so many people in my life have complained I am the opposite), nor crazy. So I keep shuffling along to the sage, philosophical words of Steve Perry whilst winking that there is no such place as South Detroit. I think you believe what you want to believe. Sorry, you will have to explain your last sentence as I have no idea who Steve Perry is and I am not American so don't understand the significance of South Detroit. Sorry, if you were American, it would not have been as obscure. Steve Perry was the lead singer of one of our more famous rock bands, Journey and the lyrics of the song say, "Don't stop believing. Hold on to that feeling," they also erroneously indicate that a place called "South Detroit" exists and that the fictional character in the song hails from said non-existent place. This latter part might have been obscure for even an average American. It's been discussed in almost every circle I've been part of, but I live and work near Detroit, so....
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2018 22:40:12 GMT
tpfkar I've asked this before and I'll ask again: Who are "you guys?" And, again, you are the one building strawmen so it seems fair that you should be the one to talk about the nature of the straw. And babble-on! The Lord is slow to anger, abounding in love and forgiving sin and rebellion. Yet he does not leave the guilty unpunished; he punishes the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2018 22:42:36 GMT
And babble-on! The Lord is slow to anger, abounding in love and forgiving sin and rebellion. Yet he does not leave the guilty unpunished; he punishes the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation.Babble on And now's the time, the time is now To sing my song I'm goin' 'round the world, I got to find my girl On my way I've been this way ten years to the day Babble on Gotta find the queen of all my dreams....but only if she can fit a cow out her seams.
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Post by cupcakes on Jan 24, 2018 22:43:11 GMT
tpfkar And babble-on! The Lord is slow to anger, abounding in love and forgiving sin and rebellion. Yet he does not leave the guilty unpunished; he punishes the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation. [img alt="" src="https://ferrelljenkins.files.wordpress.com/2014/09/babylon-ishtar-gate_berlin_fjenkins081614_5790t.jpg"] Right, any babble to slink away from the the stink on the story. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
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Post by cupcakes on Jan 24, 2018 22:45:07 GMT
tpfkar And babble-on! The Lord is slow to anger, abounding in love and forgiving sin and rebellion. Yet he does not leave the guilty unpunished; he punishes the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation.Babble on And now's the time, the time is now To sing my song I'm goin' 'round the world, I got to find my girl On my way I've been this way ten years to the day Babble on Gotta find the queen of all my dreams....but only if she can fit a cow out her seams. Anything to get you slithered away from hard truths. No one whose testicles are crushed or whose penis is cut off shall be admitted to the assembly of the LORD.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2018 22:47:11 GMT
tpfkar [img alt="" src="https://ferrelljenkins.files.wordpress.com/2014/09/babylon-ishtar-gate_berlin_fjenkins081614_5790t.jpg"] Right, any babble to slink away from the the stink on the story. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.Lol. The stink on the story! Write a vile haiku on the scent of this stink why don't you?
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Post by cupcakes on Jan 24, 2018 22:52:46 GMT
tpfkar Right, any babble to slink away from the the stink on the story. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.Lol. The stink on the story! Write a vile haiku on the scent of this stink why don't you? That seems to be your any-silly-hypocrisy-for-avoidance thing. Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2018 23:00:15 GMT
What's your thing? Making strange people fall in love with you?
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