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Post by Rodney Farber on Jan 24, 2018 22:22:56 GMT
Why not jump off a bridge and go right to the afterlife? There is no anti-suicide clause in the Bible, so go ahead.
Sometime around 1300, a priest said that the only purpose of this life is to prepare oneself for the afterlife. So why wait? Life on this planet is, at most, 120 years.
Even if you take, "Thou shalt not kill" to include suicide, why not live dangerously? If you drive 120 MPH (200 Km/Hr) you're not committing suicide if you lose control of the car. Or if you walk a tightrope over Niagara Falls you're not committing suicide even though there is a 60% chance that you'll fall.
I think that since most (over 99%) do not take ridiculous chances, then these people really have doubts about an afterlife. The afterlife, therefore, is more of a hope than a belief.
So, if you really believe in an afterlife, look me up on January 24th, 2168, stick out your tongue and say, "See, I told you so".
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2018 22:26:22 GMT
Yes, there is an anti-suicide clause in the Bible. That, in and of itself, is reason enough to shirk your hypothetical. Furthermore, even Jesus feared pain. Why should I be held to a higher standard?
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Post by Rodney Farber on Jan 24, 2018 22:41:25 GMT
Yes, there is an anti-suicide clause in the Bible. ... I'm from Missouri |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2018 22:44:01 GMT
Yes, there is an anti-suicide clause in the Bible. ... I'm from Missouri That's no excuse for a sword to O'Fallon. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2018 22:46:55 GMT
Yes, there is an anti-suicide clause in the Bible. That, in and of itself, is reason enough to shirk your hypothetical. Furthermore, even Jesus feared pain. Why should I be held to a higher standard? I'm not an expert on the Bible, but I read that there actually isn't any prohibition against suicide in the Bible; that it was merely something that the Catholic Church came up with as a reaction to suicide cults. Also, Jesus was allowed to be released from his pain and misery after ~72 hours; so why should ordinary mortal humans be forced to continue enduring for many years? |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2018 22:50:01 GMT
I'll just leave this here...  |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2018 22:50:40 GMT
Yes, there is an anti-suicide clause in the Bible. That, in and of itself, is reason enough to shirk your hypothetical. Furthermore, even Jesus feared pain. Why should I be held to a higher standard? I'm not an expert on the Bible, but I read that there actually isn't any prohibition against suicide in the Bible; that it was merely something that the Catholic Church came up with as a reaction to suicide cults. Also, Jesus was allowed to be released from his pain and misery after ~72 hours; so why should ordinary mortal humans be forced to continue enduring for many years? You were duped. Suicide is a sin per the text. It was less than 72 hours and I wasn't referring to that time of his life. He suffered zero pain during his dead days. I was referring to the moment he began praying in Gathsemane up until the moment of his death. So your comparison is apples and oranges. |
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Post by Rodney Farber on Jan 25, 2018 0:37:53 GMT
I'm not an expert on the Bible, but I read that there actually isn't any prohibition against suicide in the Bible; that it was merely something that the Catholic Church came up with as a reaction to suicide cults. Also, Jesus was allowed to be released from his pain and misery after ~72 hours; so why should ordinary mortal humans be forced to continue enduring for many years? You were duped. Suicide is a sin per the text. (text omitted) Stop beating around the bush. Frothy eloquence neither convinces nor satisfies me. You have got to show me the text that forbids suicide. And since God never changes, and since God has always known about human nature and the faults of humans, then God should have known about suicide from the get-go. In other words, this should appear in the Old Testament as well as the New. |
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Post by johnblutarsky on Jan 25, 2018 2:57:32 GMT
Yes, there is an anti-suicide clause in the Bible. Chapter and verse please. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2018 3:52:28 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2018 14:57:34 GMT
You were duped. Suicide is a sin per the text. (text omitted) Stop beating around the bush. Frothy eloquence neither convinces nor satisfies me. You have got to show me the text that forbids suicide. And since God never changes, and since God has always known about human nature and the faults of humans, then God should have known about suicide from the get-go. In other words, this should appear in the Old Testament as well as the New. Well, other than it's one of the ten commandments, it does appear several times in the OT. Since you seem to have formed a school of thought in your head that suicide is not murder, I suggest you read the book of Job. Or the story of Elijah. Both wanted to end their lives. Look at how both stories unfold. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2018 15:00:16 GMT
Yes, there is an anti-suicide clause in the Bible. Chapter and verse please. Exodus 20:13. Read the entire book of Job for an entire story on how despair can be a part of anyone's life, how even a good man wanted to commit suicide and how God answered him. Or read Elijah's story. |
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Post by johnblutarsky on Jan 25, 2018 15:40:57 GMT
Chapter and verse please. Exodus 20:13. Read the entire book of Job for an entire story on how despair can be a part of anyone's life, how even a good man wanted to commit suicide and how God answered him. Or read Elijah's story. OK. Maybe there's somewhat of an argument for Exodus (Thou shall not kill). Technically, the first set of ten commandments (with "Thou Shall not Kill") was smashed by Moses. When Moses went back up to get the commandments again, amazingly the "kill" part (and most of the original commandments) were missing....even though the second set was supposed to be like the first. Somehow, most people forget the set of commandments that weren't smashed, but latch onto the words that were destroyed. Although Job was distraught (mainly as a result of God making strange bets with Satan), there's no specific teachings about suicide in the bible. EDIT: BTW, God had no problem killing people. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2018 15:46:42 GMT
That's a pretty dumb argument. We don't need to appeal to what is or isn't in the Bible to know that killing yourself generally is not a good thing.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2018 16:36:29 GMT
Exodus 20:13. Read the entire book of Job for an entire story on how despair can be a part of anyone's life, how even a good man wanted to commit suicide and how God answered him. Or read Elijah's story. OK. Maybe there's somewhat of an argument for Exodus (Thou shall not kill). Technically, the first set of ten commandments (with "Thou Shall not Kill") was smashed by Moses. When Moses went back up to get the commandments again, amazingly the "kill" part (and most of the original commandments) were missing....even though the second set was supposed to be like the first. Somehow, most people forget the set of commandments that weren't smashed, but latch onto the words that were destroyed. Although Job was distraught (mainly as a result of God making strange bets with Satan), there's no specific teachings about suicide in the bible. EDIT: BTW, God had no problem killing people. So you agree that Exodus demonstrates (as do several other passages) that murder is a sin? Good. Does God say that Job should succumb to his desires or does God rebuke him for saying that stuff? Indeed, God has no problem killing people. Neither did the Israelites. Do you have a point to make about that? |
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Post by cupcakes on Jan 25, 2018 17:06:39 GMT
tpfkar OK. Maybe there's somewhat of an argument for Exodus (Thou shall not kill). Technically, the first set of ten commandments (with "Thou Shall not Kill") was smashed by Moses. When Moses went back up to get the commandments again, amazingly the "kill" part (and most of the original commandments) were missing....even though the second set was supposed to be like the first. Somehow, most people forget the set of commandments that weren't smashed, but latch onto the words that were destroyed. Although Job was distraught (mainly as a result of God making strange bets with Satan), there's no specific teachings about suicide in the bible. EDIT: BTW, God had no problem killing people. So you agree that Exodus demonstrates (as do several other passages) that murder is a sin? Good. Does God say that Job should succumb to his desires or does God rebuke him for saying that stuff? Indeed, God has no problem killing people. Neither did the Israelites. Do you have a point to make about that? Killing oneself is not murder, of course. And for sure God is a bloodthirsty beast beyond all human capacity, and all kinds of killing even of innocents is not sin according to the Bible.
Pope Francis, CIA, and the Death Squads |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2018 17:17:46 GMT
tpfkar So you agree that Exodus demonstrates (as do several other passages) that murder is a sin? Good. Does God say that Job should succumb to his desires or does God rebuke him for saying that stuff? Indeed, God has no problem killing people. Neither did the Israelites. Do you have a point to make about that? Killing oneself is not murder, of course.
Pope Francis, CIA, and the Death SquadsIt definitely is. |
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Post by cupcakes on Jan 25, 2018 17:20:07 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2018 17:22:38 GMT
You mean like secular law in the United States? You fail miserably. |
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Post by Isapop on Jan 25, 2018 17:24:52 GMT
OK. Maybe there's somewhat of an argument for Exodus (Thou shall not kill). Technically, the first set of ten commandments (with "Thou Shall not Kill") was smashed by Moses. When Moses went back up to get the commandments again, amazingly the "kill" part (and most of the original commandments) were missing....even though the second set was supposed to be like the first. Somehow, most people forget the set of commandments that weren't smashed, but latch onto the words that were destroyed. Although Job was distraught (mainly as a result of God making strange bets with Satan), there's no specific teachings about suicide in the bible. EDIT: BTW, God had no problem killing people. God rebukes Job for having the temerity as a puny human to question God. The rebuke would have come whether or not Job expressed a desire to be dead. So, using Job as "textual authority" that suicide is a sin is quite a stretch. The point is obvious. All that killing clearly proves that not all killing is murder. Thus, for killing to be murder certain conditions must be present. Might one condition for murder be that the killing is of another person? Maybe. That is something that all the murders recounted in the Bible have in common. There's not a single suicide among all the killings that the Bible regards as murder. While it's possible to make a plausible case that suicide is a Biblical sin, there is nothing definitive either way. You should stop using your smug phrase, "as per the text" and start saying something more honest (and humble) like, "the way I interpret it".
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