|
Post by DC-Fan on Sept 2, 2017 23:30:41 GMT
So basically, stories where the villain was the real star of the show and drove everything. The traditional, and lazy, way out. No I think Superman was the star of Superman, and that despite having a big star like Hackman there. formersamhmd just got owned!
|
|
|
Post by formersamhmd on Sept 2, 2017 23:33:57 GMT
So basically, stories where the villain was the real star of the show and drove everything. The traditional, and lazy, way out. No I think Superman was the star of Superman, and that despite having a big star like Hackman there. Nah, everything really revolved around Luthor and his schemes. Superman was merely a reactor.
|
|
|
Post by Primemovermithrax Pejorative on Sept 2, 2017 23:44:09 GMT
Nah, everything really revolved around Luthor and his schemes. Superman was merely a reactor. Luthor doesn't appear until half way through the film. Most of the movie is about Superman.
|
|
|
Post by formersamhmd on Sept 3, 2017 0:01:28 GMT
Nah, everything really revolved around Luthor and his schemes. Superman was merely a reactor. Luthor doesn't appear until half way through the film. Most of the movie is about Superman. And once he shows up, suddenly everything revolves around him. Everything before that is just Superman's origin.
|
|
|
Post by Primemovermithrax Pejorative on Sept 3, 2017 0:09:20 GMT
And once he shows up, suddenly everything revolves around him. Everything before that is just Superman's origin. No--Superman goes off and stops robbers, rescues Lois from a helicopter, and a couple other things not connected to Luthor's scheme.
|
|
|
Post by scabab on Sept 3, 2017 0:10:49 GMT
You can have a solid Captain America movie and still had a good villain, they achieved that with Winter Soldier just fine didn't they? Infact it only strengthened Captain America's character. Thor had the best villain with Loki who had more screentime than probably any of the other villains but was Thor any worse of a character than Ant-man or Doctor Strange who had so so villains? Spider-man didn't suffer by Vulture being a good villain. The DCEU actually had a good villain with Zod. He was a really solid villain. Suicide Squad and Wonder Woman kinda had the same villain problem as the Marvel movies. Wonder Woman was a good film but Ares was not that great of a villain at all unfortunately. Fine. The Marvel Cinematic Universe is terrible. Completely inferior quality. Everyone who ever liked the series should feel ashamed of themselves for ever having any fondness for it. There. Happy? No. The success of the MCU is unbelievable actually, revolutionary in what's achieved and changed the way these movies are made forever. They're 16 out of 16 for both good and successful movies and is now a popular brand the world over which has extended past movies to TV and even rides at Theme Parks. Doesn't mean they're flawless. Anything can be made better and the thing that needs work on more than anything else as has been pointed by many people is the villains. You didn't make these movies so stop acting like I'm insulting your mother.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
@Deleted
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2017 0:15:05 GMT
Fine. The Marvel Cinematic Universe is terrible. Completely inferior quality. Everyone who ever liked the series should feel ashamed of themselves for ever having any fondness for it. There. Happy? No. The success of the MCU is unbelievable actually, revolutionary in what's achieved and changed the way these movies are made forever. They're 16 out of 16 for both good and successful movies and is now a popular brand the world over which has extended past movies to TV and even rides at Theme Parks. Doesn't mean they're flawless. Anything can be made better and the thing that needs work on more than anything else as has been pointed by many people is the villains. You didn't make these movies so stop acting like I'm insulting your mother. I still maintain the villains are fine, but fair enough.
|
|
|
Post by formersamhmd on Sept 3, 2017 1:02:57 GMT
And once he shows up, suddenly everything revolves around him. Everything before that is just Superman's origin. No--Superman goes off and stops robbers, rescues Lois from a helicopter, and a couple other things not connected to Luthor's scheme. Yes, and when Luthor shows up that all grinds to a halt and everything becomes about him and his scheme.
|
|
|
Post by Primemovermithrax Pejorative on Sept 3, 2017 1:19:03 GMT
Yes, and when Luthor shows up that all grinds to a halt and everything becomes about him and his scheme. But the villain has to have a scheme--what is he supposed to be--a passerby? He is supposed to give Superman his greatest challenge-and he does. I think they go a little too far into humor especially in the van scene, and they really should have had a robot in there somewhere for Superman to fight, but otherwise I think it is still the best comic book movie (although the Adventures of Captain Marvel is really good too). Lex Luthor: There's a strong streak of good in you, Superman. But then nobody's perfect... almost nobody.
|
|
|
Post by ThatGuy on Sept 3, 2017 15:22:00 GMT
But at the same time, the villain should never overshadow the hero. I want to see a Captain America or X-men movie, not see a Zemo or Magneto movie with the hero merely in it. To me, that's the difference between the X-men movies and the MCU. Magneto has overshadowed everyone in those movies. And it's not about great acting or a charismatic actor. They just made the movie lean more over into his direction. For all their faults at least the DCEU has actually gone in that direction in making the movies more about the heroes, also. I'm glad that the MCU villains are "forgettable"*, I'm not there for them. When they make a Whiplash movie, then I'll be there for him. *Are they really forgettable? I remember everything about them. You can have a solid Captain America movie and still had a good villain, they achieved that with Winter Soldier just fine didn't they? Infact it only strengthened Captain America's character. Thor had the best villain with Loki who had more screentime than probably any of the other villains but was Thor any worse of a character than Ant-man or Doctor Strange who had so so villains? Spider-man didn't suffer by Vulture being a good villain. The DCEU actually had a good villain with Zod. He was a really solid villain. Suicide Squad and Wonder Woman kinda had the same villain problem as the Marvel movies. Wonder Woman was a good film but Ares was not that great of a villain at all unfortunately. But Bucky wasn't the villain. He was just an antagonist. Saying that Bucky was the villain is like saying that Black Panther was the villain in Civil War. Loki was liked thanks to Hiddleston's charisma, but was he that great of a character in Thor? He didn't do much there either. His popularity blew up even more in Avengers. See that's mostly what we get. The movies are about the heroes so we get less of the villains. The villains that shine the most are the ones that get more than the heroes (if the movie is a one off for the villain). But then you get the movies that are mostly about the hero, but the heroes are liked because they keep coming back in sequels. Then there is the X-men movies that keep bringing the villain back and have the movies mostly about them. Vulture had the Loki effect. Keaton has that charisma that you can like and hate him at the same time. To achieve this, Marvel has to only hire highly charismatic actors for their villains. Look at Cate Blanchett in the Thor 3 trailers. She's gonna own that role and you can see all the fun and charisma she's oozing just from the trailer. Shannon's Zod was kinda one note. It's probably because of the charisma that Stamp had in his version. Also, Stamp's Zod was highly quotable. But it was no problem for Wonder Woman. The movie was about her. That's something you guys aren't getting. These movies can have no villain at all. Ares was a non-entity. He was just a thing to stop. She could have given a speech to the Germans or stopped that plane to end the movie. The thing about these movies now is that there is more inner conflict in the heroes than there was before. Before when they had some kind of inner conflict it was over when they defeated the villain. Now they go through that struggle, resolve it and the villain is only a small part of it.
|
|
|
Post by scabab on Sept 3, 2017 15:47:42 GMT
But Bucky wasn't the villain. He was just an antagonist. Saying that Bucky was the villain is like saying that Black Panther was the villain in Civil War. Loki was liked thanks to Hiddleston's charisma, but was he that great of a character in Thor? He didn't do much there either. His popularity blew up even more in Avengers. See that's mostly what we get. The movies are about the heroes so we get less of the villains. The villains that shine the most are the ones that get more than the heroes (if the movie is a one off for the villain). But then you get the movies that are mostly about the hero, but the heroes are liked because they keep coming back in sequels. Then there is the X-men movies that keep bringing the villain back and have the movies mostly about them. Vulture had the Loki effect. Keaton has that charisma that you can like and hate him at the same time. To achieve this, Marvel has to only hire highly charismatic actors for their villains. Look at Cate Blanchett in the Thor 3 trailers. She's gonna own that role and you can see all the fun and charisma she's oozing just from the trailer. Shannon's Zod was kinda one note. It's probably because of the charisma that Stamp had in his version. Also, Stamp's Zod was highly quotable. But it was no problem for Wonder Woman. The movie was about her. That's something you guys aren't getting. These movies can have no villain at all. Ares was a non-entity. He was just a thing to stop. She could have given a speech to the Germans or stopped that plane to end the movie. The thing about these movies now is that there is more inner conflict in the heroes than there was before. Before when they had some kind of inner conflict it was over when they defeated the villain. Now they go through that struggle, resolve it and the villain is only a small part of it. Winter Soldier was sort of a villain, he probably wasn't the main villain but either way people really liked him. This all comes down to him being Cap's friend at first and then being a bad guy and then Cap trying to get through to him and get him back and Winter Soldier is sort of hesitating because he's on the fence. It made him and his interactions interesting. Loki was a good villain in Thor yeah. Hiddelston played him really well but he actually had a lot of character to play. He's a Frost Giant but he doesn't know it, he sort of resents his brother but still fights alongside him, finds out he's a Frost Giant and it changes him, gets angry at Odin who then collapses but Loki does still care for him like a father so he panics over it but then he still goes ahead and banishes his brother. So yeah he was interesting and had far more development than any of the others. He was a full on villain in Avengers but then Thor 2 when he's told his mother does he's still clearly upset by it so he's not all bad. He then says Thor and Jane's life but then takes over from Odin and tricks them all so you never know what he's going to do. Most of these others don't have much to work with. Kaelicius was already a bad guy at the start for example so he doesn't do that much. Zod had the whole thing where he wasn't particularly a bad person he was just doing bad things for his own people. He didn't just want power or money or revenge like many of the Marvel villains. There should be more to a villain than just a 10 minute fight scene with the hero. That's all Ares was there for to have the obligatory big final action scene. That's not how it was with Heath Ledgers Joker and that's why he is the best and that movie is the best.
|
|
|
Post by ThatGuy on Sept 3, 2017 16:24:29 GMT
But Bucky wasn't the villain. He was just an antagonist. Saying that Bucky was the villain is like saying that Black Panther was the villain in Civil War. Loki was liked thanks to Hiddleston's charisma, but was he that great of a character in Thor? He didn't do much there either. His popularity blew up even more in Avengers. See that's mostly what we get. The movies are about the heroes so we get less of the villains. The villains that shine the most are the ones that get more than the heroes (if the movie is a one off for the villain). But then you get the movies that are mostly about the hero, but the heroes are liked because they keep coming back in sequels. Then there is the X-men movies that keep bringing the villain back and have the movies mostly about them. Vulture had the Loki effect. Keaton has that charisma that you can like and hate him at the same time. To achieve this, Marvel has to only hire highly charismatic actors for their villains. Look at Cate Blanchett in the Thor 3 trailers. She's gonna own that role and you can see all the fun and charisma she's oozing just from the trailer. Shannon's Zod was kinda one note. It's probably because of the charisma that Stamp had in his version. Also, Stamp's Zod was highly quotable. But it was no problem for Wonder Woman. The movie was about her. That's something you guys aren't getting. These movies can have no villain at all. Ares was a non-entity. He was just a thing to stop. She could have given a speech to the Germans or stopped that plane to end the movie. The thing about these movies now is that there is more inner conflict in the heroes than there was before. Before when they had some kind of inner conflict it was over when they defeated the villain. Now they go through that struggle, resolve it and the villain is only a small part of it. Winter Soldier was sort of a villain, he probably wasn't the main villain but either way people really liked him. This all comes down to him being Cap's friend at first and then being a bad guy and then Cap trying to get through to him and get him back and Winter Soldier is sort of hesitating because he's on the fence. It made him and his interactions interesting. Loki was a good villain in Thor yeah. Hiddelston played him really well but he actually had a lot of character to play. He's a Frost Giant but he doesn't know it, he sort of resents his brother but still fights alongside him, finds out he's a Frost Giant and it changes him, gets angry at Odin who then collapses but Loki does still care for him like a father so he panics over it but then he still goes ahead and banishes his brother. So yeah he was interesting and had far more development than any of the others. He was a full on villain in Avengers but then Thor 2 when he's told his mother does he's still clearly upset by it so he's not all bad. He then says Thor and Jane's life but then takes over from Odin and tricks them all so you never know what he's going to do. Most of these others don't have much to work with. Kaelicius was already a bad guy at the start for example so he doesn't do that much. Zod had the whole thing where he wasn't particularly a bad person he was just doing bad things for his own people. He didn't just want power or money or revenge like many of the Marvel villains. There should be more to a villain than just a 10 minute fight scene with the hero. That's all Ares was there for to have the obligatory big final action scene. That's not how it was with Heath Ledgers Joker and that's why he is the best and that movie is the best. That's what an antagonist is. An antagonist is a person that is against the hero, but is not necessarily the main villain. Exactly, people liked Winter Soldier because he was Bucky. If Winter Soldier turned out to be Rumlow would anyone care? Or if Winter Soldier was the 1st time we saw Bucky, would you care? Captain America Winter Soldier was good because we got First Avenger. That's because the movie Loki really isn't a true villain. How can I put this? He's an antagonistic series regular. He's a step down from movie Magneto. Even in Avengers he was doing what he was doing because someone else had him do it. Even had him being tortured for a second. Just like you said about him in the 1st Thor, he was basically like a kid throwing a tantrum. Look at him in Avengers. They defeat him and he basically says "My bad." Okay, think about it like this. Most of the MCU "villains" are things. They are the Death Star. They are something that has to be defeated to end the movie. They forget about Kaecilius for a lot of the movie and have a few lines to remind us he is there. He could have been a nobody actor and had the movie specifically be about them stopping Dormammu's henchmen and not Kaecilius. Casting Mads for the role only gave it more weight than it should have had. Another example is Ronan vs Nebula. Who had more in the 1st Guardians movie? Nebula. But Ronan is considered the main villain. He was a non-entity and Nebula was the important character. Zod was a robot. He was single-minded and programmed that way. He was a thing. Yes, and that was all Ares was needed for. The movie was Diana's journey. Ares was only there to complete it. And The Dark Knight was mostly about the Joker. The entire movie was about them trying to figure out who he is and what he wants. When it wasn't about him, it was about Dent. Everything about Bruce in that movie was Rachel. And what made Ledger's Joker better than Leto's is the same thing I've been saying before: charisma. I mean, how do you think The Rock and Arnold keep getting movies? It's not their acting talent...
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
@Deleted
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2017 19:40:28 GMT
ThatGuy "I mean, how do you think The Rock and Arnold keep getting movies? It's not their acting talent..." Nonsense! I shall have you know Ahnrold and The Rock have trained with the best Shakespearean companies in the business!
|
|
|
Post by formersamhmd on Sept 3, 2017 20:47:15 GMT
But Bucky wasn't the villain. He was just an antagonist. Saying that Bucky was the villain is like saying that Black Panther was the villain in Civil War. Loki was liked thanks to Hiddleston's charisma, but was he that great of a character in Thor? He didn't do much there either. His popularity blew up even more in Avengers. See that's mostly what we get. The movies are about the heroes so we get less of the villains. The villains that shine the most are the ones that get more than the heroes (if the movie is a one off for the villain). But then you get the movies that are mostly about the hero, but the heroes are liked because they keep coming back in sequels. Then there is the X-men movies that keep bringing the villain back and have the movies mostly about them. Vulture had the Loki effect. Keaton has that charisma that you can like and hate him at the same time. To achieve this, Marvel has to only hire highly charismatic actors for their villains. Look at Cate Blanchett in the Thor 3 trailers. She's gonna own that role and you can see all the fun and charisma she's oozing just from the trailer. Shannon's Zod was kinda one note. It's probably because of the charisma that Stamp had in his version. Also, Stamp's Zod was highly quotable. But it was no problem for Wonder Woman. The movie was about her. That's something you guys aren't getting. These movies can have no villain at all. Ares was a non-entity. He was just a thing to stop. She could have given a speech to the Germans or stopped that plane to end the movie. The thing about these movies now is that there is more inner conflict in the heroes than there was before. Before when they had some kind of inner conflict it was over when they defeated the villain. Now they go through that struggle, resolve it and the villain is only a small part of it. That's not how it was with Heath Ledgers Joker and that's why he is the best and that movie is the best. That's because Ledger died.
|
|
|
Post by DC-Fan on Sept 3, 2017 20:50:29 GMT
That's not how it was with Heath Ledgers Joker and that's why he is the best and that movie is the best. That's because Ledger died. Ledger died 9 years ago and you're still trying to exploit Ledger's death for your delusional agenda. It's just deplorable to exploit a young man's death like you keep doing.
|
|
|
Post by formersamhmd on Sept 3, 2017 20:56:52 GMT
That's because Ledger died. It's just deplorable to exploit a young man's death like you keep doing. No more than Dark Knight exploited his death to make it immune to critics.
|
|
|
Post by darkpast on Feb 18, 2019 7:09:49 GMT
|
|
|
Post by hobowar on Feb 18, 2019 19:00:13 GMT
No one does villains better than the mcu. No one!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
@Deleted
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2019 12:01:19 GMT
cant access this link for some reason, something totally different appears
|
|