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Post by clusium on Jan 29, 2018 19:55:18 GMT
I prefer the question to be phrased as " Who Is the Holy Spirit?" Short answer: He is God. He Is the Third Person Of the Holy Trinity. The paradox is, He Is the First Person Of the Trinity to be mentioned in the Holy Bible (Genesis chapter 1, verse 2). For you the holy spirit is 'I Am'? Yes, that is correct. I believe that the Heavenly Father Is I Am. I believe that the Son Is I Am. And I believe that the Holy Spirit Is I Am.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2018 19:56:46 GMT
Per the scriptures, that is correct. You will find with me that I lean on the scriptures pretty much exclusively. And the scriptures tell us that the reprobate mind cannot discern. Not if they have a reprobate mind I don't. No, I do not regularly lean on other people's interpretations, at least not in the sense that I think you mean it. I rely on translations, but my understanding rarely comes from the inspired word of other men. When I used to run into passages that I did not understand, I simply prayed for an answer and the answer popped in my head. I did all that. When I was 20. I'm older now and am very comfortable with my set beliefs.
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Post by clusium on Jan 29, 2018 19:56:52 GMT
What is the Holy Spirit? If you believe the Bible is a true, holy text, what conclusions have you drawn about defining what the Holy Spirit actually amounts to? My belief is that, just as Jesus was God in the flesh, the Holy Spirit is God in a different nature than his true nature, in this case, angelic. What you do you think? Praying to receive the Holy Spirit: Pray To Invoke The Holy Spirit
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Post by gadreel on Jan 29, 2018 20:03:00 GMT
For you the holy spirit is 'I Am'? Yes, that is correct. I believe that the Heavenly Father Is I Am. I believe that the Son Is I Am. And I believe that the Holy Spirit Is I Am. Ahh, not quite what I meant, I meant that the I Am refers to God in the form of the holy spirit as opposed to the form of jesus for example
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2018 20:05:59 GMT
Of course they are the odds. I am either lying or I am not. Those are the two possibilities. You can add your own personal bias to the equation as you wish, but the fact remains, there are only two options, thus, the odds are 50/50. I will start by connoting the method by which this communication occurred. Because I am believer, God has spoken to me in many ways: through his Word, through the testimony of other believers, in dreams and within the natural bounds of what many would refer to as "doors opening and closing." But this was not like any of those. This was a voice that I heard within the confines of my brain (it was not audibly heard by my ears). It was very specific. And the best way I can describe the manner of it in tangible terms is akin to a teleprompter scrolling words out behind shut eyes. You are either dead or alive, do you suppose the odds of that are 50/50 as well? cool, I accept you heard these words, are you also aware that schizophrenics hear voices in their heads? So far you seem to be describing a mental break. How were you able to determine this was God? Try reading it again. I said I did not hear anything in the auditory sense. As I said before, the context mostly (but also the feeling I had...I just "knew") clued me in that this was God speaking to me. And then the results speak for themselves.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2018 20:08:30 GMT
Of course they are the odds. I am either lying or I am not. Those are the two possibilities. You can add your own personal bias to the equation as you wish, but the fact remains, there are only two options, thus, the odds are 50/50. I will start by connoting the method by which this communication occurred. Because I am believer, God has spoken to me in many ways: through his Word, through the testimony of other believers, in dreams and within the natural bounds of what many would refer to as "doors opening and closing." But this was not like any of those. This was a voice that I heard within the confines of my brain (it was not audibly heard by my ears). It was very specific. And the best way I can describe the manner of it in tangible terms is akin to a teleprompter scrolling words out behind shut eyes. You are either dead or alive, do you suppose the odds of that are 50/50 as well?
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Post by gadreel on Jan 29, 2018 20:08:52 GMT
Not if they have a reprobate mind I don't. No, I do not regularly lean on other people's interpretations, at least not in the sense that I think you mean it. I rely on translations, but my understanding rarely comes from the inspired word of other men. When I used to run into passages that I did not understand, I simply prayed for an answer and the answer popped in my head. I did all that. When I was 20. I'm older now and am very comfortable with my set beliefs. but you had already chosen someone elses interpretation prior to that. That is sad, as a species we discover new things every day, I am pretty certain that mental stagnation is not part of Gods plan.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2018 20:13:54 GMT
What is the Holy Spirit? If you believe the Bible is a true, holy text, what conclusions have you drawn about defining what the Holy Spirit actually amounts to? My belief is that, just as Jesus was God in the flesh, the Holy Spirit is God in a different nature than his true nature, in this case, angelic. What you do you think? Praying to receive the Holy Spirit: Pray To Invoke The Holy SpiritI am looking for a physical attribution. For instance, I have determined that each member of the trinity has manifested in these ways: Jesus = human Holy Spirit = angel The Father = something neither angelic nor human.
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Post by gadreel on Jan 29, 2018 20:16:12 GMT
You are either dead or alive, do you suppose the odds of that are 50/50 as well? cool, I accept you heard these words, are you also aware that schizophrenics hear voices in their heads? So far you seem to be describing a mental break. How were you able to determine this was God? Try reading it again. I said I did not hear anything in the auditory sense. As I said before, the context mostly (but also the feeling I had...I just "knew") clued me in that this was God speaking to me. And then the results speak for themselves. I knew what you wrote, I hoped you would have the wherewithal to understand that heard was the closest word I could use in the context. Are you aware that you are still describing a mental break? How did the results speak for themselves?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2018 20:19:07 GMT
Not if they have a reprobate mind I don't. No, I do not regularly lean on other people's interpretations, at least not in the sense that I think you mean it. I rely on translations, but my understanding rarely comes from the inspired word of other men. When I used to run into passages that I did not understand, I simply prayed for an answer and the answer popped in my head. I did all that. When I was 20. I'm older now and am very comfortable with my set beliefs. but you had already chosen someone elses interpretation prior to that. No, I hadn't. For an overwhelming amount of the text, I simply read and understood. I do not rely, nor have I ever relied on what someone else thought of a scripture. This is precisely why I have confidence in my beliefs. That may be sad to you, but I'm perfectly suited for it.
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Post by gadreel on Jan 29, 2018 20:20:29 GMT
but you had already chosen someone elses interpretation prior to that. No, I hadn't. For an overwhelming amount of the text, I simply read and understood. I do not rely, nor have I ever relied on what someone else thought of a scripture. This is precisely why I have confidence in my beliefs. That may be sad to you, but I'm perfectly suited for it. You read a bible in your native tongue, not hebrew. You read someone elses interpretation. You had to unless you have access to the original texts (all of them) and speak hebrew.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2018 20:23:51 GMT
Try reading it again. I said I did not hear anything in the auditory sense. As I said before, the context mostly (but also the feeling I had...I just "knew") clued me in that this was God speaking to me. And then the results speak for themselves. I knew what you wrote, I hoped you would have the wherewithal to understand that heard was the closest word I could use in the context. Are you aware that you are still describing a mental break? How did the results speak for themselves? My wife has a degree in Psychology, so, naturally, we've had conversations about what the DSM has to say about mental breaks and we've had fun laughing about how a believer's testimony tends to also describe the behavior of people dealing with mental illness. As for the results, they spoke for themselves because both instances correctly predicted the future. This is how true prophecy has always been distinguished from false prophecy.
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Post by clusium on Jan 29, 2018 20:24:03 GMT
Yes, that is correct. I believe that the Heavenly Father Is I Am. I believe that the Son Is I Am. And I believe that the Holy Spirit Is I Am. Ahh, not quite what I meant, I meant that the I Am refers to God in the form of the holy spirit as opposed to the form of jesus for example I Am refers to all 3 Persons Of the Holy Trinity.
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Post by Vegas on Jan 29, 2018 20:24:57 GMT
Everyone h earing that expression already KNOWS the judicial system is not a living thing (same with "grievance to the power")
Yeah.. But, now you're presuming what the first century Christians KNOW and how it would be interpreted by them. edit: The overall importance of the Holy Spirit wasn't really emphasized until the 3rd & 4th centuries when the Trinity Doctrine became popular.This is one of those things that I don't believe is really black or white... and is open to interpretation. I understand there is a lot of poetic and figurative sayings being used... and it's not really one of those things that needs to be argued one way or the other. It can be...
But, as the old saying that I just made up goes.... "Evidence ain't proof".
EDIT: And, even tho I haven't listed any, yet.. There is evidence that implies that it's not sentient.
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Post by clusium on Jan 29, 2018 20:25:05 GMT
I am looking for a physical attribution. For instance, I have determined that each member of the trinity has manifested in these ways: Jesus = human Holy Spirit = angel The Father = something neither angelic nor human. I do not view the Holy Spirit as an angel.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2018 20:25:53 GMT
No, I hadn't. For an overwhelming amount of the text, I simply read and understood. I do not rely, nor have I ever relied on what someone else thought of a scripture. This is precisely why I have confidence in my beliefs. That may be sad to you, but I'm perfectly suited for it. You read a bible in your native tongue, not hebrew. You read someone elses interpretation. You had to unless you have access to the original texts (all of them) and speak hebrew. I have already addressed the difference between interpretation and translation with you in a previous post. Also, the Bible wasn't exclusively written in Hebrew. Why aren't you challenging my Greek?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2018 20:27:41 GMT
I am looking for a physical attribution. For instance, I have determined that each member of the trinity has manifested in these ways: Jesus = human Holy Spirit = angel The Father = something neither angelic nor human. I do not view the Holy Spirit as an angel. Had you ever considered it? Or, perhaps, more aptly put, have you ever listened to anybody who presented an argument for it? If not angelic, what nature would you attribute to the Holy Spirit?
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Post by clusium on Jan 29, 2018 20:30:46 GMT
I do not view the Holy Spirit as an angel. Had you ever considered it? Or, perhaps, more aptly put, have you ever listened to anybody who presented an argument for it? If not angelic, what nature would you attribute to the Holy Spirit? The best way I can describe is the same way you described the Father: Neither human nor angelic. The Son Is Human, but, He Has a Dual Nature: One Human & One Divine.
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Post by gadreel on Jan 29, 2018 20:31:32 GMT
You read a bible in your native tongue, not hebrew. You read someone elses interpretation. You had to unless you have access to the original texts (all of them) and speak hebrew. I have already addressed the difference between interpretation and translation with you in a previous post. Also, the Bible wasn't exclusively written in Hebrew. Why aren't you challenging my Greek? Do you understand Greek? Translation informs interpretation.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2018 20:37:19 GMT
Had you ever considered it? Or, perhaps, more aptly put, have you ever listened to anybody who presented an argument for it? If not angelic, what nature would you attribute to the Holy Spirit? The best way I can describe is the same way you described the Father: Neither human nor angelic. The Son Is Human, but, He Has a Dual Nature: One Human & One Divine. Fair enough. Had you ever considered the angelic notion or listened to anyone else present the argument? We agree about the dual nature of the Son. I consider the Holy Spirit along those same lines. I even think that the Holy Spirit - who I believe has dual natures in divinity and the angelic - took on the form of a human as well.
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