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Post by Cody™ on Feb 6, 2018 22:32:51 GMT
Based on the gospel accounts, what is the most reasonable explanation for the life and claims of Jesus?
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Post by gadreel on Feb 6, 2018 22:34:54 GMT
General misinterpretation.
Jesus was a presenter to a path of salvation.
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Post by general313 on Feb 6, 2018 22:35:01 GMT
Earwitness news.
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Post by Cody™ on Feb 6, 2018 22:47:59 GMT
General misinterpretation. Jesus was a presenter to a path of salvation. So you don't believe he's the only path? Brother what sort of Christian are you exactly? I ask because your views are very unorthodox. |
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Post by thefleetsin on Feb 6, 2018 22:50:18 GMT
i'd ask him but he preferred bailing the planet.
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Post by lowtacks86 on Feb 6, 2018 22:55:27 GMT
Something along the lines of Merlin, possibly based on a real person but greatly exaggerated.
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Post by Cody™ on Feb 6, 2018 23:06:33 GMT
Something along the lines of Merlin, possibly based on a real person but greatly exaggerated. What makes you think that? And what do you think the writers would gain from exaggerating the life of a real person? |
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Post by lowtacks86 on Feb 6, 2018 23:12:29 GMT
Something along the lines of Merlin, possibly based on a real person but greatly exaggerated. What makes you think that? And what do you think the writers would gain from exaggerating the life of a real person? "What makes you think that?"
Because I don't believe in magic.
"And what do you think the writers would gain from exaggerating the life of a real person?"
I tend to think of mythological figures as a game of telephone. It starts with the myth possibly being based on an actual person (it almost doesn't matter) and then the story of that person gets passed around from village to village, from generation to generation, with people often exaggerating or putting their own spin on the myth until that myth finally gets recorded as the person you would call "Jesus". |
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Post by gadreel on Feb 6, 2018 23:35:07 GMT
General misinterpretation. Jesus was a presenter to a path of salvation. So you don't believe he's the only path? Brother what sort of Christian are you exactly? I ask because your views are very unorthodox. Hermetic I guess you would say, but I believe a just and benevolent god would have given us many paths up the mountain. it makes no sense to give his message to only a minority of people. |
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Post by Cody™ on Feb 6, 2018 23:39:39 GMT
lowtacks86I assume you're referring to the reported miracles. Most scholars believe the NT was completed by A.D 80. That's around 50 years after the crucifixion. Firstly, do you think 50 years is a long enough time for such major exaggerations to evolve and stick? Secondly, Jesus is said to have done many of his miracles openly infront of the public. That means there were many thousands of witnesses seeing him perform them. How come we have no historical records of his contemporaries who stepped forward and claimed that his miracles were a hoax and that such and such report did not happen. There is absolutely no record of this.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2018 23:42:09 GMT
Non of the 3
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Post by Cody™ on Feb 6, 2018 23:44:55 GMT
So you don't believe he's the only path? Brother what sort of Christian are you exactly? I ask because your views are very unorthodox. Hermetic I guess you would say, but I believe a just and benevolent god would have given us many paths up the mountain. it makes no sense to give his message to only a minority of people. So how do you personally interpret Jesus' words in John 14:6? “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." But that minority of people were given the task to take that message and share it to the whole world. |
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Post by Isapop on Feb 6, 2018 23:45:56 GMT
So you don't believe he's the only path? Brother what sort of Christian are you exactly? I ask because your views are very unorthodox. Hermetic I guess you would say, but I believe a just and benevolent god would have given us many paths up the mountain. it makes no sense to give his message to only a minority of people. When John 14:6 reads: Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." Would you suppose Jesus was misquoted?
Edit: Ah, I see it's already been asked.
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Post by lowtacks86 on Feb 6, 2018 23:46:37 GMT
lowtacks86 I assume you're referring to the reported miracles. Most scholars believe the NT was completed by A.D 80. That's around 50 years after the crucifixion. Firstly, do you think 50 years is a long enough time for such major exaggerations to evolve and stick? Secondly, Jesus is said to have done many of his miracles openly infront of the public. That means there were many thousands of witnesses seeing him perform them. How come we have no historical records of his contemporaries who stepped forward and claimed that his miracles were a hoax and that such and such report did not happen. There is absolutely no record of this. "Firstly, do you think 50 years is a long enough time for such major exaggerations to evolve and stick?"
Yes, especially in an era when there was no real mass communication to track misinformation (no Internet, no TV, no newspapers,etc) and people were a lot more susceptible to stories of magic superstition. It was mostly just word of mouth gossip and campfire tales.
"How come we have no historical records of his contemporaries who stepped forward and claimed that his miracles were a hoax and that such and such report did not happen"
Same reason there are no accounts of "witnesses" discrediting the heroic feats of Hercules, it was probably mostly made up to begin with. It would be almost as absurd as arguing why there are no witnesses who discredited the sorcery of Harry Potter.
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Post by gadreel on Feb 7, 2018 0:09:47 GMT
Hermetic I guess you would say, but I believe a just and benevolent god would have given us many paths up the mountain. it makes no sense to give his message to only a minority of people. So how do you personally interpret Jesus' words in John 14:6? “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." But that minority of people were given the task to take that message and share it to the whole world. Well first off you would have to prove that Jesus used those exact words, the gospel in question was likely written down at least 60 years after Jesus death. Given god™ is onmipotent, that seems like a very labour intensive and bad way to share the message, it would have been better to reveal the truth to various people throughout history who could interpret it in their own cultural norms. Why do it this inefficient way |
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Post by gadreel on Feb 7, 2018 0:11:42 GMT
Hermetic I guess you would say, but I believe a just and benevolent god would have given us many paths up the mountain. it makes no sense to give his message to only a minority of people. When John 14:6 reads: Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." Would you suppose Jesus was misquoted?
Edit: Ah, I see it's already been asked.
its most likely this was interjected for reasons of power |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2018 0:35:06 GMT
Possibly non-existent, or otherwise if he did exist, he was probably a sage who was somewhat ahead of his time. Some of the moral teachings of the New Testament (whether these were espoused by whomever the character of Jesus was based on or not) were sound. Although of course most of those are abandoned by modern day Christianity.
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Post by Cody™ on Feb 7, 2018 0:36:23 GMT
lowtacks86 Firstly it's highly doubtful that Heracles was even based on a historical person. And secondly there's one major difference. We don't just have any accounts of people discrediting the reported miracles. We have quite the opposite. We have extra-biblical Jewish and Roman accounts confirming Jesus worked 'wonders' and 'signs' only attributing him doing them by the power of demons. Not as absurd as your comparison. The bible was written as a historical narrative, Harry Potter is a fictional story written by an author who intended to write fiction to entertain an audience. So why would anybody expect witnesses to discredit the sorcery of Harry Potter?
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Post by lowtacks86 on Feb 7, 2018 0:47:55 GMT
lowtacks86 Firstly it's highly doubtful that Heracles was even based on a historical person. And secondly there's one major difference. We don't just have any accounts of people discrediting the reported miracles. We have quite the opposite. We have Jewish and Roman accounts confirming Jesus worked 'wonders' and 'signs' only attributing him doing them by the power of demons. Not as absurd as your comparison. The bible was written as a historical narrative, Harry Potter is a fictional story written by an author who intended to write fiction to entertain an audience. So why would anybdiy expect witnesses to discredit the sorcery of Harry Potter? "Firstly it's highly doubtful that Heracles was even based on a historical person."
Why? You're willing to believe a man who walked on water and magically healed the sick was based on an actual person, why is Hercules suddenly so ridiculous? I'm assuming you believe in Samson who was basically the Christian version of Hercules.
"We have Jewish and Roman accounts confirming Jesus worked 'wonders' and 'signs' only attributing him doing them by the power of demons."
We have Greek and Roman accounts "confirming" Hercules had superhuman strength. What's your point?
"The bible was written as a historical narrative"
No it wasn't you just choose to interpret as "historical narrative". It would be no different than someone thinking Greek mythology was historically valid.
"Hary Potter is a fictional story written by an author who intended to write fiction to entertain an audience."
So your standard for believing in something is if you know it was completely made up? Then by that reasoning you would have to give creedence to other mythological supernatural figures (Merlin, Hercules, Paul Bunyan)
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Post by Cody™ on Feb 7, 2018 1:16:33 GMT
Because the evidence for Jesus is better.
That Jesus' enemies not only didnt falsify the miracle claims made about him but were forced to accuse him of performing them by the power of demons
The gospels are classified Ancient Greco-Roman biography.
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