|
|
Post by scabab on Mar 4, 2018 3:34:34 GMT
Daredevil works because it's a TV show, you can't do that kind of storytelling its done in a mere 2 hour movie. And anyways, the Netflix shows all have the same problem that the villains come off as more interesting than the heroes and that each one runs out of plot before they run out of episodes. Only DD Season 1 averted this. EDIT: Given the attitude the Anti-MCU people here have, all they want out of an R Rating is just blood, cursing and sex scenes. Well it wouldn't have the length obviously so wouldn't have the pacing issues, I'm talking about the tone, the seriousness and how gritty and somewhat realistic it was. Just as they did with Logan. They could easily do a Blade movie like that. Neither Logan or the old Blade movie had sex scenes in it anyway. Breaks it up from all the other PG-13 movies they've made so far with a lot of jokes which they seem to make more and more of now. |
|
|
|
Post by formersamhmd on Mar 4, 2018 4:16:34 GMT
I'm talking about the tone, the seriousness and how gritty and somewhat realistic it was. Ugh, "realistic". That's an awful thing to say about a CBM. They only did things the way they did due to not having a big enough budget for really Comic-Booky stuff. A typical FoX-Men Plot only with more gore and cursing than usual, and the extra bit of killing Logan at the end. The story isn't anything new. No offense, but at this point I get the idea that you'd only be happy if Thor Ragnarok was mostly just Thor moping in his own angst in the Gladiator Cells on Sakaar and not doing anything else. |
|
|
|
Post by scabab on Mar 4, 2018 5:01:23 GMT
Ugh, "realistic". That's an awful thing to say about a CBM. They only did things the way they did due to not having a big enough budget for really Comic-Booky stuff. But again Daredevil was realistic and it was better than any MCU movie they've done. The Dark Knight was somewhat realistic, at least compared to most superhero movies and that was also better than any MCU movie they've done. There are Marvel characters in general that are more down to earth like that. They don't all have to be CGI fest like Doctor Strange or Guardians of the Galaxy. They could do more movies for these street heroes. That was also a movie better than any MCU movie so far. Not specifically for the story but for the general approach it had going for it. One that Daredevil shares with it. There is no MCU movie with gore or cursing anyway so it wouldn't be typical of that series. I have nothing against humour, they're just doing too much of it. Iron Man used humour sparingly and it was one of the funnier ones. The movies prior to The Avengers had humour but in limited amounts. Then after Joss Whedon came out with The Avengers that's the approach they keep taking now. Let's have supposedly serious events but then keep making jokes over and over. Last year Spider-man Homecoming, Guardians of the Galaxy 2 and Thor Ragnarok were heavy on the humour. Captain America Winter Soldier is probably the one with the least amount of forced humour since The Avengers and it's considered one of the best ones they've done. People got really hyped for Age of Ultron because it seemed like a darker and more serious movie and it then let people down because of the humour. Iron Man 3 was let down because of the humour. The worst part of Doctor Strange and Black Panther was again the humour. |
|
|
|
Post by formersamhmd on Mar 4, 2018 12:11:27 GMT
Ugh, "realistic". That's an awful thing to say about a CBM. They only did things the way they did due to not having a big enough budget for really Comic-Booky stuff. But again Daredevil was realistic and it was better than any MCU movie they've done. The Dark Knight was somewhat realistic, at least compared to most superhero movies and that was also better than any MCU movie they've done. That's your opinion. I think Dark Knight had external reasons for why it was as liked as it was, rather than the content of the film. And DD the show is hardly perfect either. You're not going to start complaining how Spidey shouldn't be part of the grander story and he should be a standalone "grounded" hero too are you? Nah, I say it only got its reception because it was Jackman and Stewarts' Swan Song. Without that, it wouldn't have been as well received. They don't need to rely on that stuff. Spidey's always had silly humor to it (The Green Goblin pretending to be an old lady), GOTG is just James Gunn doing his thing and Ragnarok was better for it. They HAD a humorless cut and the test audiences didn't like it. AOU, I felt the problem was Whedon having TOO much control than too little. IM3's big "problem" wasn't humor but the audience being upset that they fell for the deliberate Mandarin trick (people don't like being fooled, even if it's on purpose) and BP was overall wonderful. I'll take humor over something pretentious and full of itself. |
|
|
|
Post by scabab on Mar 4, 2018 13:23:47 GMT
That's your opinion. I think Dark Knight had external reasons for why it was as liked as it was, rather than the content of the film. And DD the show is hardly perfect either. Of course it's my opinion but one shared by many, wasn't it only recently it was voted #1 on a list of superhero movies posted here? Rated the #4 movie of all time from almost 2 million people on IMDb. Daredevil has a comparatively high score and is #92 on the equivalent Top TV shows. Neither maybe perfect but then neither are the MCU movies either. No not really, Spider-man was an Avenger himself in the comic so he's not a small time hero. Movies don't get good reviews just for that alone. Fast 7 has a lower score and isn't nearly as highly rated and it's main star died young. There were plenty of reasons given in the reviews for why Logan was rated so highly. Most movies don't. People just like the change as was proven with Daredevil. Which is pretty telling that Thor had to be made better by going the Guardians of the Galaxy comedy route. Individually it's fine, but it was three in a row like it in a series that is becoming more comedy based as it goes on. Which is fair. The Mandarin was Iron Man's main villain and people wanted him since before the first movie came out. Had it just been a twist then that would be one thing but they turned it into a joke. Then they tried pulling a second groan worthy twist where Aldrich Killian was actually The Mandarin. It ended up such a disappointment they had to make a short where they said that no even he wasn't actually The Mandarin and the real one is still out there. A complete mess, a waste and a terrible idea all done for the sake of some unfunny moments with Trevor. |
|
|
|
Post by formersamhmd on Mar 4, 2018 14:16:22 GMT
Of course it's my opinion but one shared by many, wasn't it only recently it was voted #1 on a list of superhero movies posted here? Yeah, but you know what I'll say about that. Yeah, but the MCU movies have had it harder because there are still people who think all CBMs should be "grounded" and thus dislike the MCU on principle. The FF series wasn't as hyped up as Nolan's stuff usually is. Thor 1 had more humor in it than Thor 2. I thought it was a wonderful idea about how people could be led so easily to believe in a false foreign threat rather than see the real problems coming from within their own society. |
|
|
|
Post by coldenhaulfield on Mar 4, 2018 14:22:57 GMT
Of course it's my opinion but one shared by many, wasn't it only recently it was voted #1 on a list of superhero movies posted here? Yeah, but you know what I'll say about that. Yeah, but the MCU movies have had it harder because there are still people who think all CBMs should be "grounded" and thus dislike the MCU on principle. The FF series wasn't as hyped up as Nolan's stuff usually is. Thor 1 had more humor in it than Thor 2. I thought it was a wonderful idea about how people could be led so easily to believe in a false foreign threat rather than see the real problems coming from within their own society. Careful, bud. scabab is being patient, polite, and precise. Your talking points are fraying to the point of bursting in the context of a real dialogue that isn't just back-and-forth fanboy troll nonsense.  |
|
|
|
Post by scabab on Mar 4, 2018 15:30:05 GMT
Yeah, but the MCU movies have had it harder because there are still people who think all CBMs should be "grounded" and thus dislike the MCU on principle. I don't think people want them all to be grounded, I just think people would like a bigger variety in the kind of movies they do. X-men has pulled it off quite well with Logan and Deadpool. Now they're doing New Mutants....could be shit, but it's different and I'm sure people would want to see something similar with the MCU. They could have done something unique with Ghost Rider but they just threw him to TV. I was comparing that more to X-men. Fast and Furious 7 was definitely a lot more hyped than Logan and that movie had the surprise death of a young actor. That didn't stop Logan getting better reviews and ratings anyway, it's simply because it was a better movie. Even had Heath Ledger not died it would still be rated higher than any superhero movie ever made. Ehhhh...I don't know, but Thor 2 did have a raving naked man running around for laughs. I thought it was a wonderful idea about how people could be led so easily to believe in a false foreign threat rather than see the real problems coming from within their own society.[/quote] The idea for it was fine, it's actually kinda clever really. They did something similar with Transformers 3. The execution of it though wasn't very good and it certainly should not have been done with a major villain like The Mandarin the one villain people wanted to see in an Iron Man movie. Any other villain, they could have maybe have got away with it but they did it with the wrong one. |
|
|
|
Post by formersamhmd on Mar 4, 2018 15:42:47 GMT
I don't think people want them all to be grounded I think they do. Even to this day we're still suffering from the damage done by Singer and Nolan and how there are still audience members who just can't stand stuff like magic and aliens and actual comic-booky stuff. They want the Avengers to spend all their time fighting mobsters or something. Remember when I told you how there were people outright OFFENDED at how the MCU was making genuinely comic-booky stuff popular? And it worked out quite well because of that. II don't think it was. I don't think so, critics and viewers would be much more willing to point out its flaws if he hadn't died. They were trying to show that having Loki living in your brain leaves side effects. I'll be straight with you...even in the comics I thought Stane was a better villain than Mandarin. |
|
|
|
Post by coldenhaulfield on Mar 4, 2018 15:57:16 GMT
I don't think people want them all to be grounded I think they do. Even to this day we're still suffering from the damage done by Singer and Nolan and how there are still audience members who just can't stand stuff like magic and aliens and actual comic-booky stuff. They want the Avengers to spend all their time fighting mobsters or something. Remember when I told you how there were people outright OFFENDED at how the MCU was making genuinely comic-booky stuff popular? And it worked out quite well because of that. II don't think it was. I don't think so, critics and viewers would be much more willing to point out its flaws if he hadn't died. They were trying to show that having Loki living in your brain leaves side effects. I'll be straight with you...even in the comics I thought Stane was a better villain than Mandarin. No "ashamed," "grounded," "creatively bankrupt," "villains/stars," "boosters," or the like anywhere in sight. Just great back-and-forth discussion. Good post. You should be This Guy more often! |
|
|
|
Post by taylorfirst1 on Mar 4, 2018 20:49:38 GMT
When people say the MCU should do R rated stuff like the NETFLIX shows, I SMH. The MCU did do the R-rated NETFLIX shows. That's where the MCU has decided to tell it's R-Rated stories in a format where there is more time for story and character development.
So stop asking for R-rated content from the MCU. They already have it!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
@Deleted
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2018 21:11:44 GMT
Another comedy? Three out of the last four MCU movies we've had were practically comedies. Exactly. It's getting tiresome. Black Panther was refreshing because it dared to actually take itself seriously. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
@Deleted
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2018 21:13:52 GMT
It'd be a movie equivalent of Daredevil, arguably the best thing to come from the MCU. Daredevil works because it's a TV show, you can't do that kind of storytelling its done in a mere 2 hour movie. Yes you can. You're just ashamed of movies. |
|
|
|
Post by coldenhaulfield on Mar 4, 2018 23:31:00 GMT
Daredevil works because it's a TV show, you can't do that kind of storytelling its done in a mere 2 hour movie. Yes you can. You're just ashamed of movies. He needs to be less ashamed. And less grounded and creatively bankrupt and about making villains the stars and more wondrous. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
@Deleted
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2018 0:07:15 GMT
Another comedy? Three out of the last four MCU movies we've had were practically comedies. Exactly. It's getting tiresome. Black Panther was refreshing because it dared to actually take itself seriously. Well hopefully Infinity War is just as serious as Black Panther. If it's the Russo's then it probably will be. |
|
|
|
Post by formersamhmd on Mar 5, 2018 0:28:00 GMT
Daredevil works because it's a TV show, you can't do that kind of storytelling its done in a mere 2 hour movie. Yes you can. You're just ashamed of movies. All those earlier CBMs that try to compress entire runs into a single film (Green Lantern) say otherwise. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
@Deleted
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2018 5:08:22 GMT
Yes you can. You're just ashamed of movies. All those earlier CBMs that try to compress entire runs into a single film (Green Lantern) say otherwise. Nah. DD season one was a very simple story with tons of filler. Season two was a contrived mess with a bunch of stories smashed together haphazardly. |
|
|
|
Post by thenewnexus on Mar 5, 2018 6:37:21 GMT
When people say the MCU should do R rated stuff like the NETFLIX shows, I SMH. The MCU did do the R-rated NETFLIX shows. That's where the MCU has decided to tell it's R-Rated stories in a format where there is more time for story and character development. So stop asking for R-rated content from the MCU. They already have it! I ll compromise for more mature movies that are like WS and BP. |
|
|
|
Post by scabab on Mar 5, 2018 7:44:12 GMT
I think they do. Even to this day we're still suffering from the damage done by Singer and Nolan and how there are still audience members who just can't stand stuff like magic and aliens and actual comic-booky stuff. They want the Avengers to spend all their time fighting mobsters or something. I've never seen anything like that. The X-men movies were just as far out there as the MCU movies, maybe more so actually. The difference being that it still tried to take itself seriously. They all had jokes but it wasn't a constant thing. Even The Dark Knight movies had humour in them. All people want is more movies more like Winter Soldier, one that was bogged down by jokes. That is one reason why people like that movie so much. Winter Soldier didn't have magic or aliens or giant robots. No it didn't, he was shoved into a cheesy TV show where he didn't even appear all that much because they couldn't afford the CGI to do it and it wasn't even the main Ghost Rider, Johnny Blaze. He actually had some potential as a movie, he could have been the dark version of Doctor Strange, a darker and more violent movie with a horror vibe, have Mephisto in it and all the quirky supernatural stuff. There was potential there to then also have a Blade movie, introduce Morbius in a Spider-man movie and make another team up movie called Midnight Sons. It was much more hyped up than Logan. The Fast and Furious series was more popular anyway, it's opening weekend was drastically bigger than Logan and Paul Walkers death made the news worldwide and you kept hearing about it for months. It's flaws were always pointed out, the infamous Batman voice, Two-Face being a bit rushed and the whole Sonar thing people were mixed on but it was minor compared to everything it did so well. Ten years have passed, you've got new movies and Heath Ledgers death is old news now but it's still considered the best. I bet in ten years time it will still be considered the best. Fast and Furious 7 got a 80% or a decent 6.6 average rating so Paul Walker dying didn't do anything for that. It's reviews are similar to Fast 5 and 6. I was never familiar with either character except what little I saw of Mandarin in the 90's cartoon. I don't care for the character at all, same with any Iron Man villain but he was still his main villain. Also the whole magic vs technology stuff could have been pretty interesting especially after both Iron Monger and Whiplash were just evil versions of Iron Man. Aldrich Killain was a bit different but still another intellectual business man so an evil version of Tony Stark. The Mandarin would have been pretty different. |
|
|
|
Post by formersamhmd on Mar 5, 2018 12:11:15 GMT
That is one reason why people like that movie so much. Winter Soldier didn't have magic or aliens or giant robots. It had a secret conspiracy by a Nazi Offshoot using flying aircraft carriers using a program created by the ghost of a Swiss scientist. But this is just further proving how people are still inherently biased against "non-grounded" stuff. There's been more than one Rider, and he did really well in what time he DID have. They showed how powerful the Rider really was compared to the Cage movies. Yeah, but like I said all the R Rating crowd would really want is just sex and gore. Yeah, but the series didn't go for the "serious art" crowd the way Logan did. Nope, no one cared at the time nor did anyone think that having an omnipotent villain was lazy writing. Tony's biggest enemy has always been himself, in comics and movies. Mandarin really isn't his "arch villain". That idea didn't start up til the 90s cartoon. |
|
