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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2018 2:00:43 GMT
It may be a stupid question. But i am still asking it
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Post by moviebuffbrad on Mar 16, 2018 2:35:04 GMT
Comics: DC is about heroes for us to aspire to be, Marvel is about flawed people aspiring to be heroes.
Movies: DC is sitting on a goldmine they don't know what to do with. Marvel knows how to mine gold out of things they shouldn't know what to do with.
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Post by sostie on Mar 16, 2018 10:03:24 GMT
Comics: DC is about heroes for us to aspire to be, Marvel is about flawed people aspiring to be heroes. Movies: DC is sitting on a goldmine they don't know what to do with. Marvel knows how to mine gold out of things they shouldn't know what to do with. I'd go along with these. Marvel it seems are also more willing to take bigger risks
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Post by Tristan's Journal on Mar 16, 2018 10:37:33 GMT
I'm not the biggest fan of beefcake-in-tights genre in general, but from what I have seen: (I'm discussing this generation of movies, i.e., Disney-Marvel [17 MCU movies] vs DC beginning with Nolan [9 movies]):
1. Play it Safe: Disney-Marvel has a more hardcore play-it-safe formula. Their stuff features the same characters and arcs (jerk goes through crisis and becomes hero like Iron Man, Dr Strange, Thor, AntMan etc, except Cap who has no arc). They seldom take artistic or demographical risks, for instance, in this generation of films it took them 18 films to finally have a non-white protagonist and they still have no female one.
This play-it-safe approach becomes apparent if you compare Marvel it to X-Men, a Marvel franchise but produced not by Disney-Marvel but by Fox: These films take risks and create variety and stakes in the movies: You get an R-rated mature existencial western masterwork like Logan or a juvenille blood opera like Deadpool. This is a far cry of what would be possible with the Disney-marvel formula aimed at children. DC have things like Watchmen, Nolan-Batmen etc.
2. Source Variations: Marvel keep it close to the comic book origin: Their characters are essentially the same in every interpretation. DC varies it strongly and is far more artistically evolved, e.g Batman: You have super-goofy 60s Batman, you have old Miller-Killer Batman, you have gloomy Lego Batman, you have Burton Batman, you have relistic Nolan Batman etc.
3. Tone: DC is darker and more mature, though that is not saying much (Nolan Batman or BvS despite their philosophical references to Nietsche are still beefcake in tights movies).
4. Dialogue: Accordingly, both focus on mommy issues ("You must save Martha" in BvS vs "I don't care, he killed my mom" in Cap 3 and GotG 2). But Marvel has a more apparent focus on juvenile dialoge such as: "Hahaha, I am famous for my huge turds", "I have sensitive nipples", "Did you create a penis", "Dance off, turd blossom" "Hulk, play hide the zucchini with Black Widdow"etc.
4. Villains: Marvel tends to focus on the hero, having weak villains - in DC the villain often is as strong ore more interesting than the hero (Joker, Luther, Catwoman etc). Again: the exception is X-Men with Magneto being a top 10 villain (at least with movies).
IMHO based on the facts.
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Post by mslo79 on Mar 16, 2018 11:06:39 GMT
DC movies are generally better than Marvel in my experience but it might be because I tend to like the DC characters more in general like Batman/Superman/Wonder Woman where as Marvel pretty much only has Thor for me.
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Post by sostie on Mar 16, 2018 11:11:00 GMT
I'm not the biggest fan of beefcake-in-tights genre in general, but from what I have seen:
1. Disney-Marvel is hardcore play-it-safe formula. Their stuff features the same characters and arcs (jerk goes through crisis and becomes hero like Iron Man, Dr Strange, Thor, AntMan etc, except Cap who has no arc). They hardly take artistic or demographical risks, for instance, it took them 18 films to finally have a non-white protagonist and they still have no female one If you are talking actual Marvel films their first, Blade, had a black lead, and they had a female lead back in 2005 with Elektra. Now I know you probably mean MCU as opposed to Marvel, but you are mentioning the likes of Watchmen, Nolan's Batman films and Catwoman in your comparisons which have nothing to do with the comparable DCEU. You mean Deadshot in Suicide Squad and Wonder Woman? Well Deadshot was nothing more than a financial consideration, casting one of the biggest box office draws, Will Smith, in a the role of a white character. As for Wonder Woman, I find it pretty shocking that DC (who have been involved in their film productions since 1990) took over 25 years to put one of the most famous comic book characters ever (Marvel only had Spider-Man who was as famous) on screen.
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Post by The Social Introvert on Mar 16, 2018 11:16:27 GMT
Marvel seems to be more organised, well-thought out and structured. They have a plan, they take risks, they make mistakes, they learn from the mistakes, they know their audience, they follow a proven formula.
DC is just a mess.
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Post by DSDSquared on Mar 16, 2018 11:26:18 GMT
I'm not the biggest fan of beefcake-in-tights genre in general, but from what I have seen:
1. Disney-Marvel is hardcore play-it-safe formula. Their stuff features the same characters and arcs (jerk goes through crisis and becomes hero like Iron Man, Dr Strange, Thor, AntMan etc, except Cap who has no arc). They hardly take artistic or demographical risks, for instance, it took them 18 films to finally have a non-white protagonist and they still have no female one If you are talking actual Marvel films their first, Blade, had a black lead, and they had a female lead back in 2005 with Elektra. Now I know you probably mean MCU as opposed to Marvel, but you are mentioning the likes of Watchmen, Nolan's Batman films and Catwoman in your comparisons which have nothing to do with the comparable DCEU. You mean Deadshot in Suicide Squad and Wonder Woman? Well Deadshot was nothing more than a financial consideration, casting one of the biggest box office draws, Will Smith, in a the role of a white character. As for Wonder Woman, I find it pretty shocking that DC (who have been involved in their film productions since 1990) took over 25 years to put one of the most famous comic book characters ever (Marvel only had Spider-Man who was as famous) on screen. Do not even bother. He is a known Marvel hater. If we are talking all Marvel and DC films, then Marvel has had plenty of black and women characters. I love how he counts Deadshot but not someone like Falcon or War Machine or Blade, who was actually the lead.
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Post by Tristan's Journal on Mar 16, 2018 12:28:18 GMT
I'm not the biggest fan of beefcake-in-tights genre in general, but from what I have seen:
1. Disney-Marvel is hardcore play-it-safe formula. Their stuff features the same characters and arcs (jerk goes through crisis and becomes hero like Iron Man, Dr Strange, Thor, AntMan etc, except Cap who has no arc). They hardly take artistic or demographical risks, for instance, it took them 18 films to finally have a non-white protagonist and they still have no female one If you are talking actual Marvel films their first, Blade, had a black lead, and they had a female lead back in 2005 with Elektra. Now I know you probably mean MCU as opposed to Marvel, but you are mentioning the likes of Watchmen, Nolan's Batman films and Catwoman in your comparisons which have nothing to do with the comparable DCEU. well, I'm explicitly talking about this current generation of Disney-Marvel and DC movies regardless of whether they formally belong to the MCU or DCEU. Nolan-Batman and Snyder-Watchmen re-introduced the gritty, darker CBM again (some R-rated), and the 5 DCEU films essentially followed suit. Marvel essentially is only MCU unlike DC which is a movie multiverse approach.
Yes, Marvel in times of yore (successfully) lauched one of the early black protagonist CMB franchise with Blade. There was also the Elektra film, after DC's entries. Marvel had more risk-taking balls back then that's for sure.
But this only hammers home the point: Current Disney-Marvel is the most play-it safe of all CMB franchises as best exemplified by the formula approach: Unlike with X-Men or DC or "Independents" (Kick Ass, Super, Chronicle etc) there are no R-rated and/or out of formula MCU movies taking big structural or content risks.
no, as regards SS I mean
- Deadshot AND Amanda Wallner who were the black male and female leads in an ensemble movie (at least by word count). If the actors are popular or not is irrelevant.
- I'm talking about having a female anatagonist which did not happen in MCU/X-Verse until then (it happened in Supergirl and Batgilr though, both DC).
- And I'm talking about the concept of having a band of villains as the protagonsits. Highly unusual and first time.
All these aspects represent a degree of risk taking in movie Marvel took 15+ movies or still did not take.
The film itself is shitty of course, and tecnically in this generation SS is DC-movie Nr 7 if you count Nolan and Watchmen (Nr 3 in DCEU).
lol, you spent too much time arguing with DC fan. Be pretty shocked as much and as long as you want. But you might have noticed that DC were the first releasing female-led CBMs with Supergirl and Batgirl (not to speak of the TV shows and animated movies starring Wonder Woman and Supergirl), and the first to launch the first female-led, successful CBM-movie which "broke the curse".
Why DC preferred other super heroines over WW in the movies eludes me. But that is dramatic license.
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Post by Tristan's Journal on Mar 16, 2018 12:41:10 GMT
If you are talking actual Marvel films their first, Blade, had a black lead, and they had a female lead back in 2005 with Elektra. Now I know you probably mean MCU as opposed to Marvel, but you are mentioning the likes of Watchmen, Nolan's Batman films and Catwoman in your comparisons which have nothing to do with the comparable DCEU. You mean Deadshot in Suicide Squad and Wonder Woman? Well Deadshot was nothing more than a financial consideration, casting one of the biggest box office draws, Will Smith, in a the role of a white character. As for Wonder Woman, I find it pretty shocking that DC (who have been involved in their film productions since 1990) took over 25 years to put one of the most famous comic book characters ever (Marvel only had Spider-Man who was as famous) on screen. Do not even bother. He is a known Marvel hater. If we are talking all Marvel and DC films, then Marvel has had plenty of black and women characters. I love how he counts Deadshot but not someone like Falcon or War Machine or Blade, who was actually the lead. and you are a known Trump lover, but I still bother to tell you: Your few straw men arguments are beside-the-point and false.
Eg when I set out "Disney-Marvel" do you think that encompasses "all" Marvel films? Reading comprehension! When I talk black leads do you think that also includes black support sidekicks? Reading comprehension! The same with "woman characters".
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Mar 16, 2018 12:55:17 GMT
As far as the films go, Marvel Studios understands the source material and what people want out of a superhero movie. DC spends too much time trying not to be Marvel instead of simply translating the essence of their characters to the screen properly.
I agree with Tristan as far as the Fox films taking bigger risks with the material, the problem is they're aiming at a smaller audience and more often than not make puzzling creative choices, and frankly feature poor script writing. Again, they seem not to understand the source material. Marvel has been bold in terms of which properties to adapt to the big screen, but they do have a formula and depending on your personal preference that's either a good or a bad thing.
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Post by sostie on Mar 16, 2018 13:09:29 GMT
If you are talking actual Marvel films their first, Blade, had a black lead, and they had a female lead back in 2005 with Elektra. Now I know you probably mean MCU as opposed to Marvel, but you are mentioning the likes of Watchmen, Nolan's Batman films and Catwoman in your comparisons which have nothing to do with the comparable DCEU. well, I'm explicitly talking about this current generation of Disney-Marvel and DC movies regardless of whether they formally belong to the MCU or DCEU. Nolan-Batman and Snyder-Watchmen re-introduced the gritty, darker CBM again (some R-rated), and the 5 DCEU films essentially followed suit. Marvel essentially is only MCU unlike DC which is a movie multiverse approach.
Yes, Marvel in times of yore (successfully) lauched one of the early black protagonist CMB franchise with Blade. There was also the Elektra film, after DC's entries. Marvel had more risk-taking balls back then that's for sure.
But this only hammers home the point: Current Disney-Marvel is the most play-it safe of all CMB franchises as best exemplified by the formula approach: Unlike with X-Men or DC or "Independents" (Kick Ass, Super, Chronicle etc) there are no R-rated and/or out of formula MCU movies taking big structural or content risks.
no, as regards SS I mean
- Deadshot AND Amanda Wallner who were the black male and female leads in an ensemble movie (at least by word count). If the actors are popular or not is irrelevant.
- I'm talking about having a female anatagonist which did not happen in MCU/X-Verse until then (it happened in Supergirl and Batgilr though, both DC).
- And I'm talking about the concept of having a band of villains as the protagonsits. Highly unusual and first time.
All these aspects represent a degree of risk taking in movie Marvel took 15+ movies or still did not take.
The film itself is shitty of course, and tecnically in this generation SS is DC-movie Nr 7 if you count Nolan and Watchmen (Nr 3 in DCEU).
lol, you spent too much time arguing with DC fan. Be pretty shocked as much and as long as you want. But you might have noticed that DC were the first releasing female-led CBMs with Supergirl and Batgirl (not to speak of the TV shows and animated movies starring Wonder Woman and Supergirl), and the first to launch the first female-led, successful CBM-movie which "broke the curse".
Why DC preferred other super heroines over WW in the movies eludes me. But that is dramatic license.
What exactly are you discussing here.....films based on Marvel characters compared to ones on DC characters? Films produced under watch of Marvel and DC? MCU compared to DCEU? You talk about and compare... Supergirl...a DC character but not a film DC had anything to do with Catwoman...a DC film Blade...a Marvel film released by New World X-Men a Marvel Film released by Sony MCU...Marvel films...all but 5 released by Disney Kick Ass..a Marvel imprint Comic...but an indie film Nolan's Batman films and Watchmen...DC films but not part of DCEU. Suicide Squad & Wonder Woman...part of the DCEU So what about Storm in X-Men Apparently Deadshot an Wallner count as leads despite being in an ensemble, so Marvel had Elektra, Gamora, Storm, Jean Grey, Black Widow (not all MCU but then neither are Batgirl or Supergirl DCEU which you bring up) Not that unusual...Guardians Of The Galaxy did it two years before. And outside CBMs...Dirty Dozen, the template for Suicide Squad.
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Post by DSDSquared on Mar 16, 2018 13:27:27 GMT
Do not even bother. He is a known Marvel hater. If we are talking all Marvel and DC films, then Marvel has had plenty of black and women characters. I love how he counts Deadshot but not someone like Falcon or War Machine or Blade, who was actually the lead. and you are a known Trump lover, but I still bother to tell you: Your few straw men arguments are beside-the-point and false.
Eg when I set out "Disney-Marvel" do you think that encompasses "all" Marvel films? Reading comprehension! When I talk black leads do you think that also includes black support sidekicks? Reading comprehension! The same with "woman characters".
Jesus, why bother? You are a troll. You talked about all DC films going back to forever and only mentioned Marvel. Now you want to say only the MCU. Then I could say only the DCEU, which would suck for you since the DCEU is terrible in every way. Will Smith was not the lead in SS. Blade was the lead in his film. Will Smith is the equivalent of War Machine or Falcon.
Also, what does Trump have to do with anything? This is not the politics board. I will say that Trump accomplished more in one year than Obama did in his first four.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2018 13:31:04 GMT
I asked a question about DC and Marvel not about Trump and Obama.
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Post by Tristan's Journal on Mar 16, 2018 13:49:35 GMT
and you are a known Trump lover, but I still bother to tell you: Your few straw men arguments are beside-the-point and false.
Eg when I set out "Disney-Marvel" do you think that encompasses "all" Marvel films? Reading comprehension! When I talk black leads do you think that also includes black support sidekicks? Reading comprehension! The same with "woman characters".
Jesus, why bother? You are a troll. You talked about all DC films going back to forever and only mentioned Marvel. Now you want to say only the MCU. Then I could say only the DCEU, which would suck for you since the DCEU is terrible in every way. Will Smith was not the lead in SS. Blade was the lead in his film. Will Smith is the equivalent of War Machine or Falcon.
Also, what does Trump have to do with anything? This is not the politics board. I will say that Trump accomplished more in one year than Obama did in his first four.
1. You should learn what the term "troll" means. 2. You should never feed the trolls. 3. You shall not commit fallacies, especially "shifting goalposts", "straw man" or "personal incredulity". 4. You shall not misuse the name of the Lord your God. 5. You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything. 6. This forum would be a lot less fun without you. 7.
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Post by Tristan's Journal on Mar 16, 2018 13:53:30 GMT
I asked a question about DC and Marvel not about Trump and Obama. DC and Marvel are similar in almost every way, including their quest for greater power. That is the answer.
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Post by politicidal on Mar 16, 2018 13:59:53 GMT
A matter of lighting I think.
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Post by koskiewicz on Mar 16, 2018 15:57:41 GMT
...meh! to both Marvel and DC. I prefer the hero universe created by Valiant comics which unfortunately is kaput...
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Post by Tristan's Journal on Mar 16, 2018 16:02:53 GMT
...meh! to both Marvel and DC. I prefer the hero universe created by Valiant comics which unfortunately is kaput... how is it kaputt?
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Post by Xcalatë on Mar 16, 2018 16:15:24 GMT
not sure if the question is about the comics or movies but ill go with the movies:
The MCU is well though out and interconnected and even the weakest movies are interesting enough because of that.
DCU is a mess with too much drama behind the scenes and some very questionable decisions when it comes to casting and directors.
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