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Post by geode on Apr 9, 2019 6:36:49 GMT
How is the best way to pray? I think what is discussed here about "contemplative" prayer is basically correct. It reminds me also of the similarity to the Buddhist concept of meditation that has been lifted by current psychology as "mindfulness"...to be aware of all creation and our part in it. I was reading somebody else's thoughts about prayer just yesterday, how we should give thanks to God and not start out by seeking favors. I was pondering "crisis of faith" and what to do about it. Prayer is an answer, but it best be what is described here as "contemplative" to be effective. Yes, the "duality" in thinking described continues to divide us, and not only in terms of religion. Thankyou for this thoughtful post. It made me think as an agnostic atheist about my 'mindfulness' for want of a better term, and the difference I see between that and 'prayer' To me it comes down to the direction of thoughts when involved in this activity. If one is a theist, one's thoughts are directed 'outwards' towards your deity, whether it is in thanks, communication or entreaty (whether praying for yourself or others, or things in general). As an atheists my thoughts are totally inwards, talking to myself and seeking inner peace harmony and direction of my thoughts perhaps leading to deeds of the future in an attempt to do my best for myself, my neighbours, the environment and society. One of the things that I like best about this Buddhist inspired way of mindfulness, is the self contained responsibility that one takes for one's own thoughts and future actions. AS there is no interaction with an outside force such as deity, then the responsibility is mine alone and direction in my life in my control. It is perhaps the main reason I an not a theist. It would be one thing to be directed by God should he/she/is exist, however it is quite another to be directed by fallacious, delusional power hungry men who wrote the Bible/Quaran etc and then became the pillars of the 'churches' in all religions. I see our describing ourselves as "theist" or "atheist" as fitting in with what Richard Rohr describes in the video as "duality" of thought which he says always leads to conflict. This is an interesting observation. I think we all should find are similarities instead of battling over our differences. He talks about the duality as thinking in strict black and white terms.
His description of "contemplation" is outward, to focus on a leaf and the like and ponder the interconnection of all. He description (at about the 2:40 min. mark) is very similar to what a Buddhist monk might tell you that meditation is all about, or how a psychologist might describe mindfulness. If we can't find what you describe as inner harmony and doing our best towards others, he seems to be saying that prayer will just be going through the motions.
He describes contemplation as a setup for prayer, that comes from within, by the Spirit.
Jesus taught that we love God by helping each other. This gets lost by far too many Christians. Jesus did not teach that we should come to the aid of just those who think like us. Christian sects get far too much wrapped up in a "clan" mentality. Jesus taught to love your enemies, and in the parable of the Good Samaritan to help others who are different.
Misguided religious leaders are why I am now non-denominational. I prefer to go back to the original source, Christ. Some authors of the Bible were not self-promoting and power hungry in my opinion. Although I am not Roman Catholic I have found strength from the Franciscans. But none of the resident Catholics here have commented.
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Post by geode on Apr 8, 2019 17:18:13 GMT
That one commentator was essentially correct, not a moron at all. Do you wish to be in the presence of God and with your family in heaven? According to Mormon leader's talks this weekend this is only possible if you become a Mormon, obey Mormon leaders, pay tithing, have a Mormon baptism, and go through Mormon Temple rituals. You see no other option? I guess this means you are going to become a Mormon? The Mormon leader was only expressing the view that is arguably the logical view for any religious leader who believes that his church is the one and only TRUE one. So, I can empathize with him. It just amuses me that such leaders think that such a teaching is reconcilable with a loving and understanding god.
Yes, if one comes from the viewpoint that Russell M. Nelson is the Infaliable Prophet, Seer, and Revelator of the only completely true church then what he said is logical. But if you take what Christ actually taught, it is not because it does not align with His teachings about God and love.
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Post by geode on Apr 8, 2019 16:06:05 GMT
This is written largely from a Mormon point of view, but is applicable to most of Christianity. "There is another common perversion of God the Father that rears its head from time to time in both Christian and Latter-day Saint circles. Let’s call him “The Godfather.” Unlike God the Father, the Godfather works through fear and intimidation. He gives us presents and helps us find our car keys, of course. And we may, from time, discreetly ask him to whack an enemy or two and make it looks like an accident. and he may discretely whack an enemy or two and make it look like an accident. But, in exchange he demands our absolute loyalty. And if we fail him, we may end up sleeping with the fishes." link
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Post by geode on Apr 8, 2019 15:54:28 GMT
The Mormons just finished their semiannual General Conference. A theme of many of the talks by leaders was that time is short, we must all repent, and we need to convert to their religion and do their ordinances and take covenants to obey the leaders or we will lose out in heaven. I saw one comment by an ex-Mormon that this amounts to "spiritual terrorism".... That one commenter would be a moron. What other option are they supposed to give- Do what ya like? That one commentator was essentially correct, not a moron at all. Do you wish to be in the presence of God and with your family in heaven? According to Mormon leader's talks this weekend this is only possible if you become a Mormon, obey Mormon leaders, pay tithing, have a Mormon baptism, and go through Mormon Temple rituals. You see no other option? I guess this means you are going to become a Mormon?
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Post by geode on Apr 8, 2019 11:26:59 GMT
Human beings are the ones that make the mistakes and then using the deluded notion of a biblical God as a sounding board, because that is what he would endorse, is an even bigger mess of a mistake. Unless they can prove beyond their own personal judgements and condemnations of what they "only" think their God wants with some logical and believable evidence, these Mormons are insidious and ignorant manipulators. The Mormons just finished their semiannual General Conference. A theme of many of the talks by leaders was that time is short, we must all repent, and we need to convert to their religion and do their ordinances and take covenants to obey the leaders or we will lose out in heaven. I saw one comment by an ex-Mormon that this amounts to "spiritual terrorism"....
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Post by geode on Apr 7, 2019 19:38:06 GMT
...Jason Alexander (George Costanza from Seinfeld) has stated that he based his character on Ralph Kramden. High praise indeed... There is a lot of Stan Laurel and Oliver Hardy in Ed and Ralph.
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Post by geode on Apr 7, 2019 17:15:48 GMT
How is the best way to pray? I think what is discussed here about "contemplative" prayer is basically correct.
It reminds me also of the similarity to the Buddhist concept of meditation that has been lifted by current psychology as "mindfulness"...to be aware of all creation and our part in it.
I was reading somebody else's thoughts about prayer just yesterday, how we should give thanks to God and not start out by seeking favors. I was pondering "crisis of faith" and what to do about it. Prayer is an answer, but it best be what is described here as "contemplative" to be effective.
Yes, the "duality" in thinking described continues to divide us, and not only in terms of religion.
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Post by geode on Apr 7, 2019 16:05:23 GMT
Interesting to return to this movie. Dr. Lao, its visual qualities aside, is not particularly well written. I think it's overwritten, thus there's less love for it than there might be if it had been (if you'll forgive the seeming absurdity) a silent movie. It didn't really need dialogue. On another site, several years ago, we had a lengthy discussion of the film and many of us reached the same conclusion more or less independently, which was that the whole "life is a wonderful circus if you'll just let it happen" message was hit home with a sledgehammer, way over-articulated, as the film stood, by itself, as "saying" just that without having to literally spell it out. Bill Warren fell that this was the main reason for the picture falling short of greatness: it talked too much.. From my memory of many years ago I do not have the same impression of this being overwritten. I thought that the theme was delivered far more elegantly than what you express here. There is this dialogue that I found.
"Mike, let me tell you something. The whole world is a circus if you know how to look at it. The way the sun goes down when you're tired, comes up when you want to be on the move. That's real magic. The way a leaf grows. The song of the birds. The way the desert looks at night, with the moon embracing it. Oh, my boy, that's... that's circus enough for anyone. Every time you watch a rainbow and feel wonder in your heart. Every time you pick up a handful of dust, and see not the dust, but a mystery, a marvel, there in your hand. Every time you stop and think, "I'm alive, and being alive is fantastic!" Every time such a thing happens, you're part of the Circus of Dr. Lao."
...with the last part repeated as a voice over at the very end of the film.
But perhaps adults evaluate it one way, when the intended audience was younger. It might be more fair to see how such a young audience regards the script.
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Post by geode on Apr 6, 2019 8:33:46 GMT
His films can be very patchwork. But yeah, some of his films are better made than others. I see. I guess I should see some and figure out what this entails.
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Post by geode on Apr 5, 2019 19:41:04 GMT
She was in a few Full Moon films, such as Head of the Family and Hideous. I see..... ....said the blind man.
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Post by geode on Apr 5, 2019 17:04:32 GMT
It was a horrible mistake because it had a body count connected to it. Many gay Mormon youths committed suicide because of it. Thousands of people resigned from the Mormon church over it. And that is the real reason they changed the policy back, they realized that they were going to blink out of existence because they had alienated so many, especially the young. It probably was a mistake...Actually the change is odd since it still requires the parents to agree that their lifestyle is a horrible deviant transgression of the Mormon faith and the kid has to be taught that. Basically they are pretending to overlook something that repulses them so the kids apparently won't kill themselves or they can still get tithes from the parents that repulse them. Still that wouldn't have much to do with God making a mistake and they probably haven;t admitted to it anyway. It is being perceived as a "don't ask, don't' tell" situation regarding parents, as now local bishops determine discipline of transgressions in regards to gay couples.
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Post by geode on Apr 5, 2019 13:12:32 GMT
For an active believing Mormon, Jana is a free thinker. What is revelation? link
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Post by geode on Apr 5, 2019 0:34:10 GMT
As a general rule, changing one's mind is not the same thing as making a mistake. I can assume that is the framing of the current reversal in the Mormon church. In the end it's a good thing so it becomes a nothingburger unless the Church said God made a mistake. It was a horrible mistake because it had a body count connected to it. Many gay Mormon youths committed suicide because of it. Thousands of people resigned from the Mormon church over it. And that is the real reason they changed the policy back, they realized that they were going to blink out of existence because they had alienated so many, especially the young.
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Post by geode on Apr 5, 2019 0:03:40 GMT
Who received the revelation? In my opinion nobody. But the Mormons have sustained Russell M. Nelson as the current "prophet, seer, and revelator" and teach he is the only one currently living that can receive revelation for the whole church.
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Post by geode on Apr 4, 2019 23:20:33 GMT
If you are a Mormon you should be asking yourself this question. Is it possible for God to make a mistake? Is it possible for God to "flip-flop" over important matters and change His mind in a time frame of only three years? My mind was in this philosophical mode this past evening. I had a friend for almost thirty years named Kurt. Kurt stopped talking to me three years ago after we disagreed about the Mormon church policy change banning baptisms of children in families with gay parents. I said it was wrong and it certainly would have to be changed. He defended the change, that it was correct and therefore would not be changed. That policy has just been reversed. The change in 2015 was claimed to have come as a revelation from God, this reversal is also basically being claimed as revelation from God. So God made a mistake He had to change? Me feelings just now? God does not make such mistakes, but men do. Some mistakes have significant repercussions, affecting many thousands of people, breaking many hearts. When a mistake leads to likely suicides, that mistake is especially serious. However, it is good that a wrong move has been changed, and righted. This will make many people's lives easier to live. It will likely save lives. So, do you think Kurt will talk to me again? Do you think the Mormon leaders that made mistakes will apologize for all the harm they caused? Do catfish have kittens? link
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Post by geode on Apr 4, 2019 21:54:53 GMT
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KOTCH
Apr 4, 2019 17:42:01 GMT
Post by geode on Apr 4, 2019 17:42:01 GMT
"I guess New York was radically different than California in 1971."
Having been in NYC in '71 … it wasn't all that different Often evil intent is in the eye of the beholder.
DO envy you that movie job ! geode Well, it did lead to seeing a large proportion of movies from the 70s, major releases and more obscure ones. I switched to a career as a geologist in 1980. I was just talking about relatively forgotten releases with a cousin about a month ago. The 70s are often celebrated as being a great decade for film, but many of those films celebrated are not favorites of mine but others such as "Kotch" are ones I remember fondly. I told her about "Harry and Tonto" as well as a handful of movies now rarely talked about.
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Post by geode on Apr 4, 2019 9:43:48 GMT
That's why I don't belong to any organized religion. Too much of the Bible is misinterpreted and believe to be fact. If you believe Jesus Christ could walk on water and had the power to perform miracles, how can you believe that anyone could kill Him? His words regarding life: " No man taketh it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received from My Father.” A valid point.
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Post by geode on Apr 4, 2019 9:36:10 GMT
goz You are missing a MAJOR thing there in my post... it's not me that's ending the debate, but Jesus Christ's own words that end the debate. BIG difference. basically the debate is over given my post there quoting the bible. to state otherwise is like basically saying Jesus Christ is wrong and your right and it's impossible for Him to be wrong. But the verse you quote does not prove your point.
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Post by geode on Apr 4, 2019 9:27:11 GMT
My favorites are the Toxic Avengers films, Nuke 'Em High films, Troma's War, Sgt. Kabukiman NYPD, Bloodsucking Freaks, Mother's Day, Monster in the Closet, Tromeo and Juliet, Terror Firmer, and Poultrygeist. Some great titles here.
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