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Post by Wolverine10005 on Aug 23, 2020 9:52:52 GMT
I must confess that - aside from some very evident flaws and negative aspects - the first "THOR" movie was overall good.
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Post by Wolverine10005 on Aug 23, 2020 8:52:20 GMT
Well, that's called "FIGHTING". They are not invicible or unbreakable, and you should admit that the MCU HUMAN heroes like Black Widow and Hawkeye have PLOT ARMOUR and seem 100% superpowered and unbeatable wherever they are not. Chitauri say: "Hello!". X-MEN and X2 are more grounded, the X-Men can be beaten (TOAD has superhuman capabilities, not just a long tongue), but they eventually combine their powers, kick ass and win, like in each PERFECT final fight of the Original X-Men Trilogy. Cyclops, Storm and Jean Grey/Marvel Girl use their powers in a great way and they are very skilled on the battlefield, but they have no superhuman strength, speed, agility or stamina. They are basically soldiers in uniform. Sabretooth has superhuman strength, speed, agility and stamina. Toad has superhuman strength (in the legs), agility and ability to leap.
Jean knows Toad's abilities because they have fought the Brotherhood before. And yet, she holds him up like his legs is his only mutant ability when she just saw he could have hit her with his tongue. She thought she won a fight. Rookie mistake. Slam him into a wall head first. That's like if Wanda just held Thanos up instead of crushing his armor on him.
I know what the problem is. They are wearing all black. Wearing black when you have a telepath to make you invisible is stupid to the eye and an electrokinesis to short out cameras is stupid. They rely too much on wearing black.
No, Jean did not encounter Toad before, that's obvious. The Brotherhood line-up tends to change from time to time. And she was on her basic "Movieverse Marvel Girl" phase, so hitting him toward a VERY DISTANT wall, across a huge space, was hard to accomplish. The Toad was FAST, super-fast and super-agile, on a Movieverse Werewolf McCoy/Beast level. FANTASTIC touch of retroactive continuity: Toad did not kill Scott Summers/Cyclops or even harm him, but just locked him into a display case, because they had been BOTH inmates at Three Miles Island in 1983 ("ORIGINS"). So there was a nice empathic connection between the two. All the fights in "X-MEN" and X2 were fantastic. Very grounded, exciting, well-crafted, well-directed and well-choreographed. P.s: JEAN GREY couldn't make them invisible. She had not enough power as "MOVIEVERSE MARVEL GIRL". Blame Xavier for that. Black was tactical anyway. They were a secret strike force team.
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Post by Wolverine10005 on Aug 22, 2020 20:31:56 GMT
REAL STAKES. Human superheroes. Grounded superhero movies. That was X-MEN and X2. And they are PERFECT.
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Post by Wolverine10005 on Aug 22, 2020 19:33:31 GMT
By "The Last Stand", Iceman had mastered his ability and thus turned into his full ice humanoid form. He was very young. Colossus and Shadowcat were ENOUGH skilled with their primary powers. Shadowcat's secondary mutation (Chronokinesis) had not triggered YET. It's not Xavier's fault. She was 20 or so. Jean was 32/33 years old in X1. She was born in 1966/1967. She was 8 years old in 1975. She was 16/17 years old in 1983. She was skilled with her "MARVEL GIRL" powers, not the "PHOENIX" powers. Blame Xavier for that. Cyclops having the visor taken off.... LMAO what does that mean? That happens tons of times in the comics. That doesn't mean that he doesn't know how to use his optical blast. He's very skilled at it in X1, X2 and Dark Phoenix, indeed. Storm was pretty bad ass in X1. Sabretooth wasn't set to kill her anyway. Magneto was behind him. Again, your arguments are incorrect and inconsistent. Sorry for that. Well, that's called "FIGHTING". They are not invicible or unbreakable, and you should admit that the MCU HUMAN heroes like Black Widow and Hawkeye have PLOT ARMOUR and seem 100% superpowered and unbeatable wherever they are not. Chitauri say: "Hello!". X-MEN and X2 are more grounded, the X-Men can be beaten (TOAD has superhuman capabilities, not just a long tongue), but they eventually combine their powers, kick ass and win, like in each PERFECT final fight of the Original X-Men Trilogy. Cyclops, Storm and Jean Grey/Marvel Girl use their powers in a great way and they are very skilled on the battlefield, but they have no superhuman strength, speed, agility or stamina. They are basically soldiers in uniform. Sabretooth has superhuman strength, speed, agility and stamina. Toad has superhuman strength (in the legs), agility and ability to leap.
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Post by Wolverine10005 on Aug 22, 2020 15:33:01 GMT
The original 1983 Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe volume stated that Cyclops' eyes contain inter-dimensional apertures, releasing powerful energies from another dimension into his own via the beams. This account states that his body naturally metabolizes ambient energy that is used to open and focus the apertures in his eyes. The energy of the beam itself originates from this other dimension. Cyclops's body is naturally immune to the force of his own beams.[156] His mind projects a psionic field that envelops his body rendering it immune to his optic beam, allowing him to shut it off by simply closing his eyes. Scott is also immune to the power of his brother Alex (Havok) who has the ability to emit waves of energy that heat the air into plasma. Likewise, Havok has demonstrated immunity to Cyclops's optic beam. Scott has been shown as being able to absorb Storm's lightning bolt, although this act caused Cyclops a great deal of pain.[157] The ruby quartz used in his battle visor has been said to resonate with his body's psionic field. Scott has only limited resistance to his brother Vulcan's powers.
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Post by Wolverine10005 on Aug 22, 2020 15:30:43 GMT
JEAN GREY: no, no, no. APOCALYPSE is another timeline. Xavier repressed MOST of her powers, and this created an alternate personality inside her. In the Original Timeline, the "PHOENIX" wasn't just a simple alternate personality unrelated to her powers, but a standalone conscious manifestation of her suppressed powers in the guise of an "alternate personality".
CYCLOPS: no, no, no. You can assume that there are interdimensional fissures like in the comic books. The concussive energy comes from a NON-ENSTEINIAN dimension. Even comic book Cyclops in some issues showed no control over the optical blast, because he couldn't close his eyes INSTANTANIOUSLY like we do.
STORM: Movieverse Ororo Munroe doesn't generate electricity, she's immune to it (of course) and she can channel it from the SKY. Natural electricity.
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Post by Wolverine10005 on Aug 22, 2020 14:57:21 GMT
By "The Last Stand", Iceman had mastered his ability and thus turned into his full ice humanoid form. He was very young. Colossus and Shadowcat were ENOUGH skilled with their primary powers. Shadowcat's secondary mutation (Chronokinesis) had not triggered YET. It's not Xavier's fault. She was 20 or so. Jean was 32/33 years old in X1. She was born in 1966/1967. She was 8 years old in 1975. She was 16/17 years old in 1983. She was skilled with her "MARVEL GIRL" powers, not the "PHOENIX" powers. Blame Xavier for that. Cyclops having the visor taken off.... LMAO what does that mean? That happens tons of times in the comics. That doesn't mean that he doesn't know how to use his optical blast. He's very skilled at it in X1, X2 and Dark Phoenix, indeed. Storm was pretty bad ass in X1. Sabretooth wasn't set to kill her anyway. Magneto was behind him. Again, your arguments are incorrect and inconsistent. Sorry for that. Colossus just turns into bio organic metal. Nothing there. He just has an on and off switch. The only way to show that he doesn't know how to control his powers is if parts of his body turns to metal randomly or he turns back to flesh during a fight. Chronopathy (because she sends the person's mind back to an earlier version of themself) is not a thing from her. She has never had mental powers. They didn't even put in that her phasing can paralyze people. It would make more sense if she sent Logan back as a ghost that was phasing through time. What they did in the movie wasn't an evolution of her powers.
Again. Jean is a veteran rookie. She's in her 80s by this time and she's still at the point of teen Jean in the 1st comics.
It means that Cyclops got his visor taken off twice in X1 and you'd think by now he'd be use to it. Nah, he looked at the skylight in the train station for like 15 minutes before turning and closing his eyes. Veteran rookie. Pyro, Iceman, Kitty, and Jubilee would have done better in that situation. And his optic blast is always on. All he has to do is uncover his eyes. But to control it he has to know how to keep his eyes covered.
Magneto was behind him literally or figuratively? Because I just watched the scene and he wasn't there... Storm creates weather patterns. She doesn't need to actually start a storm to use lightning. So having her be useless until Cyclops opens the skylight is pretty bad.
SHADOWCAT: this is the movieverse. Different universe, different Kitty Pryde. NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT. Her Chronokinesis is an altogether different power, a secondary mutation, totally unrelated to the primary mutation. IN SOME WAY, you can just say that she can make anyone else's mental consciousness "slip" and "phase" throughout the past. That said, it's a different power, like EMMA FROST's binary mutation. JEAN GREY: blame Xavier for that. That's the whole point of the resurgence of her alternate personality in the guise of "PHOENIX". Xavier locked most of her power inside herself. Rewatch the movies. That's the whole point of the third movie. CYCLOPS: MOVIE-TIME. He had his eyes open for very few seconds, but that looked and felt "stretched" in the movie. NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT. Also, we can assume that in the movieverse he regularly makes a struggle to close his eyes, because there's the flow of concussive energy coming from the interdimensional fissures (do you know how his powers work...?). THAT OCCURS IN THE COMIC BOOKS TOO. He's afraid to harm anyone. Sometimes, the optical blast "occurs". Why? He could close his eyes. Maybe it's not easy. STORM: nitpicking at its worst. She was confused. She had been weakened by Sabretooth and his HOLD. Magneto ordered him to incapacitate them, not kill them. That said, Victor's hold on Storm's neck was heavy. She didn't breath anymore, she was going to be suffocated by it. Plus, in the movieverse, she absorbs lightnings from the sky. Again, this nitpicking is lame. It's just for the sake of it. It doesn't hold water. I don't mean to offend you anyway.
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Post by Wolverine10005 on Aug 22, 2020 13:39:02 GMT
In 1999-2000, the teachers were: Scott/Cyclops - he knew how to use his powers. Jean Grey - in her "MARVEL GIRL" status, she knew how to use her powers. "Phoenix" was an alternate identity with full access to hidden abilities. Ororo Munroe/Storm - she knew how to use her powers. Wolverine, Rogue, Iceman, Nightcrawler, Colossus, Shadowcat, Angel were X-Men --- but not teachers. Beast was ahead of anyone of them, even. Rogue, Iceman, Colossus, and Shadowcat weren't X-men until X3 and even then they were rookies with their powers. Angel was only hiding out at the mansion and was not an X-man. You are proving my point with Jean being in her 40s and still being at X-men vol. 1 #1 stage. She should have been further than that. Cyclops was in his 30s and still getting his visor taken off on multiple occasions. Sabretooth should have killed Storm in the train station. By "The Last Stand", Iceman had mastered his ability and thus turned into his full ice humanoid form. He was very young. Colossus and Shadowcat were ENOUGH skilled with their primary powers. Shadowcat's secondary mutation (Chronokinesis) had not triggered YET. It's not Xavier's fault. She was 20 or so. Jean was 32/33 years old in X1. She was born in 1966/1967. She was 8 years old in 1975. She was 16/17 years old in 1983. She was skilled with her "MARVEL GIRL" powers, not the "PHOENIX" powers. Blame Xavier for that. Cyclops having the visor taken off.... LMAO what does that mean? That happens tons of times in the comics. That doesn't mean that he doesn't know how to use his optical blast. He's very skilled at it in X1, X2 and Dark Phoenix, indeed. Storm was pretty bad ass in X1. Sabretooth wasn't set to kill her anyway. Magneto was behind him. Again, your arguments are incorrect and inconsistent. Sorry for that.
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Post by Wolverine10005 on Aug 22, 2020 13:32:21 GMT
Was just giving my idea of where the characters should be in terms of age range. I see people keep putting the characters at ages they shouldn't be. Casting Rogue with 30+ year old actresses because they think they could do the accent and they are hot. Oh ok. Yeah some of the ages have been hit or miss all the way back to X1... The X-Men Trilogy: Scott Summers was born in 1965 - During X1 he was 34 years old. Jean Grey was born in 1966/1967 - During X1 she was 32/33 years old.
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Post by Wolverine10005 on Aug 21, 2020 20:08:50 GMT
Yeah I would be alright nixing the brands. I'd like to see Cyke being late teens or 20. (modeled off go getting young Lt.) Beast being 21 to 23 and the Ape version first. Kitty looks like mid teens. (I don't particularly want Kitty in the first movie I like the character but I'd like to see more of the original team in the first outing.) Considering he only has 2 of the original team that's all I can go off of. Jean needs to be about Cyke's age. Angel can be same age as Jean and Cyclops maybe a smidge younger. Let Iceman be the young impetuous one of the first movie. Adding more going on. When the first team gets a little older after first movie fill in the roster with different characters filling age spots and the originals get more seasoned. Edit: Also let Cyclops fail and learn from it. I think the measure should be Spider-man. Cyclops, Jean and Beast 2-3 years older. Iceman should be the same age as Peter. Angel up to a year older than Cyclops. I think Beast should be in his human form except he should be this muscular hulking guy. He shouldn't be this small guy like Holt when he's human. The fur look should just be a covering of hair when it comes to his build. Storm and Colossus should be the same age as Iceman. I've always seen her as this younger character that had a strong maternal presence that made her seem older (also making her younger takes out that stupid Black Panther union). And Colossus has a romantic link with Kitty so you really shouldn't have that age gap so big. Rogue should be around the same age as Kitty. Maybe a year or 2 younger than Spider-man. If they do 90s Rogue that has Carol Danvers's powers (I want to see a movie version of her 1st appearance). I see Rogue like TAS Supergirl to Superman.
I think at the beginning the only older characters besides Xavier would be Banshee (he's a cop) and Logan.
I really didn't like the veteran rookies that they were in the Fox movies. Making them adults that taught at a school for learning how to control your powers, yet they barely knew how to use their own powers, really didn't sit well.
In 1999-2000, the teachers were: Scott/Cyclops - he knew how to use his powers. Jean Grey - in her "MARVEL GIRL" status, she knew how to use her powers. "Phoenix" was an alternate identity with full access to hidden abilities. Ororo Munroe/Storm - she knew how to use her powers. Wolverine, Rogue, Iceman, Nightcrawler, Colossus, Shadowcat, Angel were X-Men --- but not teachers. Beast was ahead of anyone of them, even.
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Post by Wolverine10005 on Aug 21, 2020 20:02:49 GMT
Well, we can assume that - as one of the reasons - Logan wanted to come back to Japan, because he loved that country. The post-credits sequence of "X-Men Origins" showed that he travelled to Japan in the Eighties and spent some years on there as well. At that point, in 2008, he had reacquired all his old memories (as implied by both "The Wolverine" and DOFP), but the BAD FEELINGS attached to those old pre-Adamantium Bullet memories had dissipated and were 100% GONE. Dazz, just remember, Logan was fucked over and abused in the pre-Origins era and during "X-Men Origins". In the aftermath, he had NO MORE memory, he didn't know who he was, so he was just living day by day like an animal, and nobody ever abused of him anymore. Nobody. Then, don't forget that his X-Man years changed him in a very deep way, they made him less a loner and more a social fighter. Also you gotta admit that last sentence of yours is hilarious in the context of the movie we are discussing, his X-Men days made him more social and less of a loner...cut to The Wolverine with Logan living alone in exile as a mountain man in the wilderness amongst the animals. Yeah, that's paradoxical. I mean, we don't know why he left the X-Men in the very first place. Sure as hell he had become more "social" in the X-Men trilogy, in comparison with his Post-Adamantium Bullet status at the end of Origins and at the beginning of X1. I forgot about the cop cars. Were the X-Men still wanted? Surely. After all, Sentinels were coming on their way, as shown in the 2010 epilogue. So I guess that things went worse and worse from the events of "The Last Stand", and the truce humans/mutants didn't last too long.
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Post by Wolverine10005 on Aug 21, 2020 10:06:14 GMT
Well,
There are no more fights in this thread. Let's go civil and let's continue!
What type of Cyclops do you want for the MCU Uncanny X-Men?
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Post by Wolverine10005 on Aug 21, 2020 9:58:17 GMT
No wait. X1 and X2 occurred in 1999. "The Last Stand" occurred in 2000. Jean Grey died in 2000. Wolverine milited in the team for more years, because he told Magneto "I've fought you FOR YEARS" (or so) in DOFP. He left the X-Men in 2006. Less or more. "The Wolverine" occurs in 2008. The post-credits sequence occurs in 2010. So he was away for atleast 8 years, even more impressive No, away for 1 year and half/almost 2 years as hinted by Yukio. By the end of "The Last Stand", the X-Men weren't a secret strike force team anymore. Apparently, Xavier's dream was running strong. Erik/Magneto reacquired his powers (as implied by the ending of TLS) so he returned back to his terrorist act. That's why Logan said: "I'VE FOUGHT YOU FOR YEARS". The X-Men fought him until 2005/2006, and Logan was an X-Man. So basically, Wolverine was an X-Man in 1999-2006 and 2010-2023 (Original Timeline).
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Post by Wolverine10005 on Aug 21, 2020 9:47:21 GMT
Dazz: Logan was still retired by the time "The Wolverine" occurred. He wasn't an X-Man anymore. He's a man of honor, that's why he agreed to travel to Japan. It fits the character a lot to do so. That's pure Wolverine. It doesn't affect his status as "RETIRED X-MAN" and "former superhero". That said, I'm not against Clint returning in CW. I just wished he was wearing a mask from the first Avengers movie. Logan abandoned his team to go into exile, a team he was close with, who he had been with for years, who cared about him and had shown it, but he doesn't care he goes away, why is this random fucker he barely knows important enough for him to break his exile? and he does so after a 2 minute conversation which wasn't that compelling and we see all of it, where as with Clint we don't see that conversation so we don't know how or why he helps Cap we just know he does, Clint's reasoning could be lame, or could be spot on, where as with Logan's we see it being iffy, and I say that as someone who like The Wolverine more than Civil War, but why both me come out of retirement and exile respectively makes more sense for Clint than it does Logan imo, only reason it makes sense is Logan knows he has to leave after what just happened, which actually goes into my whole Logan needed a mask thing. Well, we can assume that - as one of the reasons - Logan wanted to come back to Japan, because he loved that country. The post-credits sequence of "X-Men Origins" showed that he travelled to Japan in the Eighties and spent some years on there as well. At that point, in 2008, he had reacquired all his old memories (as implied by both "The Wolverine" and DOFP), but the BAD FEELINGS attached to those old pre-Adamantium Bullet memories had dissipated and were 100% GONE. Dazz, just remember, Logan was fucked over and abused in the pre-Origins era and during "X-Men Origins". In the aftermath, he had NO MORE memory, he didn't know who he was, so he was just living day by day like an animal, and nobody ever abused of him anymore. Nobody. Then, don't forget that his X-Man years changed him in a very deep way, they made him less a loner and more a social fighter.
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Post by Wolverine10005 on Aug 20, 2020 15:07:25 GMT
So according to your timeline, Wolverine leaves the xmen in 2008 after killing Jean in X3 in 2006 and then we get to the events of The Wolverine in 2013. So Logan went into self exile for atleast 5 years. Clint Barton stayed away for less than 12 months lmao i guess his family didnt mean that much to him huh Not quite, read his timeline if you want, it doesn't fit imo but those dates are very wrong according to him, what dates you said works for me though. But one thing Logan came out of exile due to a random dude he saved 70 years earlier seeks him out when he's on his death bed, Logan's been betrayed and used way too many times to buy into this but still does, low and behold the old fucker wanted to use Logan and steal his healing for himself. Clint on the other hand is contacted by his old team mate Cap, who despite Cap's actual fallings most see as a paragon of righteousness, Cap needs allies to get Bucky out of the country so they can stop a crazed bad guy unleashing an army of Hydra super soldiers onto the world. Which one is more frivolous again? random dude Logan helped 70 years ago and never mentions again wants to see him once more, or former team mate, national hero and legend needs help preventing a major supervillain threat? hmm. Dazz: Logan was still retired by the time "The Wolverine" occurred. He wasn't an X-Man anymore. He's a man of honor, that's why he agreed to travel to Japan. It fits the character a lot to do so. That's pure Wolverine. It doesn't affect his status as "RETIRED X-MAN" and "former superhero". That said, I'm not against Clint returning in CW. I just wished he was wearing a mask from the first Avengers movie.
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Post by Wolverine10005 on Aug 20, 2020 15:01:16 GMT
Guys:
This is not MCU vs. Fox. We changed music some weeks ago.
I've just told Bud that I sorely miss the Hawkeye mask, because there were millions of ways to introduce that in the MCU World. It's a huge loss for the character.
Wolverine has wolf hair, claws and a distinctive look even without mask and costume.
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Post by Wolverine10005 on Aug 20, 2020 14:59:04 GMT
In the original timeline, by 2008 the X-Men have apparently disbanded and only few mutants still stay at the school. Professor X is apparently dead, Cyclops is dead, Jean Grey is dead. I guess Wolvie milited in the team for some years since the events "The Last Stand", then everything crumbled down. So according to your timeline, Wolverine leaves the xmen in 2008 after killing Jean in X3 in 2006 and then we get to the events of The Wolverine in 2013. So Logan went into self exile for atleast 5 years. Clint Barton stayed away for less than 12 months lmao i guess his family didnt mean that much to him huh No wait. X1 and X2 occurred in 1999. "The Last Stand" occurred in 2000. Jean Grey died in 2000. Wolverine milited in the team for more years, because he told Magneto "I've fought you FOR YEARS" (or so) in DOFP. He left the X-Men in 2006. Less or more. "The Wolverine" occurs in 2008. The post-credits sequence occurs in 2010.
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Post by Wolverine10005 on Aug 20, 2020 14:32:36 GMT
I know that Hawkeye's costume is tactical like the Fox ones, but I don't like its design. It's just my personal taste. I know that the Hawkeye mask is not iconic like the Wolverine mask, but Clint Burton needed to cover his identity in the MCU World anyway, wherever Logan didn't need that in the Fox World. Even if Clint was a SHIELD agent, he was also fighting as a primary member of a very popular team of superheroes, and he got a family. Wolverine, in the original timeline, was the member of a secret and obscure mutant strike force team. However Logan, as the storytelling is better, after X-men 3 realized that people he loves tend to die when he's in a conflict. So to prevent anyone that was close to him from getting hurt, he voluntarily exiled himself into the Rocky Mountains to live as a hermit. Only through consistent pleaing and convincing does Logan listen to Yukio and bring him back to civilization as he agreed one day in Japan to see the old man die and return to his life in the mountains. In the original timeline, by 2008 the X-Men have apparently disbanded and only few mutants still stay at the school. Professor X is apparently dead, Cyclops is dead, Jean Grey is dead. I guess Wolvie milited in the team for some years since the events "The Last Stand", then everything crumbled down.
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Post by Wolverine10005 on Aug 20, 2020 13:08:44 GMT
Worth it imo if you have a 4K TV (I don’t). The Blu-Ray looks really good. The first Mad Max has great visuals. Yeah. Road Warrior and Thunderdome desperately need new transfers, even.
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Post by Wolverine10005 on Aug 20, 2020 13:07:14 GMT
I understand your point of view, of course, but I must say that MCU ruined some characters from a visual standpoint anyway. Thor needed the helmet. You get aprox. 350 ways to make that helmet look cool and "grounded" on film, but they didn't care. Hawkeye's movie costume is just horrid and lifeless. The Hawkeye mask is iconic. Still, they dropped that. So stupid. Hawkeye was first and foremost a SHIELD agent and his costume reflected that. It also resembles Fox's X-Men tactical look, which you seem to favor but apparently only when it suits your argument. His mask is hardly iconic, at least not to the same level as Wolverine. I know that Hawkeye's costume is tactical like the Fox ones, but I don't like its design. It's just my personal taste. I know that the Hawkeye mask is not iconic like the Wolverine mask, but Clint Burton needed to cover his identity in the MCU World anyway, wherever Logan didn't need that in the Fox World. Even if Clint was a SHIELD agent, he was also fighting as a primary member of a very popular team of superheroes, and he got a family. Wolverine, in the original timeline, was the member of a secret and obscure mutant strike force team.
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