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Post by Lord Death Man on Jun 16, 2019 17:33:19 GMT
That's so dumb, atleast link it a little, like atleast be Jean's always shared a connection to the Phoenix force due to her powers, through this she subconsciously associated the Phoenix with her deeper power hence why when she lets loose we get the Phoenix form and stuff.
Just so it made sense to me I looked at it this way. Jean has fire like abilities naturally like shown in Apocalypse. The Radiation-like Cosmic force (They Originally thought it was a Solar Flair reaching the Shuttle, but said that doesn't look like a flair when they got there) entered her. This amped up her natural fire like abilities and telekinesis. I don't know if that's what the makers were going for, but it's how I justified it. That's was extremely charitable of you. Jean isn't a pyrokinetic in the source material but, this is Fox-Land so...
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Post by dazz on Jun 16, 2019 17:41:53 GMT
That's so dumb, atleast link it a little, like atleast be Jean's always shared a connection to the Phoenix force due to her powers, through this she subconsciously associated the Phoenix with her deeper power hence why when she lets loose we get the Phoenix form and stuff.
Just so it made sense to me I looked at it this way. Jean has fire like abilities naturally like shown in Apocalypse. The Radiation-like Cosmic force (They Originally thought it was a Solar Flair reaching the Shuttle, but said that doesn't look like a flair when they got there) entered her. This amped up her natural fire like abilities and telekinesis. I don't know if that's what the makers were going for, but it's how I justified it. I haven't seen the movie yet so this is just what I would have done is have Jean somehow connected to the phoenix force, which is why she manifest's the phoenix with her untapped powers, and when she used her full abilities to kill Apocalypse this sort of summoned the Phoenix force as it sensed her power through the galaxy, this explains why it never appears in the original timeline as Jean never used her powers to this degree until just before she died, which also justifies it never appearing after as it sensed Jean's death at the end.
This would directly tie Dark Phoenix into Apocalypse and make it mean more, so Jean's world saving actions in one lead to the drama of the next film and then if you have Jean take control of the power and die or leave you know whatever you do to make her save the day you make this a 2 part story kind of deal, and would tie into from what I hear Xaviers story is, with the road to hell is paved with good intentions idea behind both of their stories and the different outcomes that can arise from it.
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Post by Vassaggo on Jun 16, 2019 18:25:28 GMT
Just so it made sense to me I looked at it this way. Jean has fire like abilities naturally like shown in Apocalypse. The Radiation-like Cosmic force (They Originally thought it was a Solar Flair reaching the Shuttle, but said that doesn't look like a flair when they got there) entered her. This amped up her natural fire like abilities and telekinesis. I don't know if that's what the makers were going for, but it's how I justified it. That's was extremely charitable of you. Jean isn't a pyrokinetic in the source material but, this is Fox-Land so... Yeah I know lots of mental gymnastics to make what we saw in Apocalypse gel with Dark Phoenix...
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Post by Vassaggo on Jun 16, 2019 18:29:51 GMT
Just so it made sense to me I looked at it this way. Jean has fire like abilities naturally like shown in Apocalypse. The Radiation-like Cosmic force (They Originally thought it was a Solar Flair reaching the Shuttle, but said that doesn't look like a flair when they got there) entered her. This amped up her natural fire like abilities and telekinesis. I don't know if that's what the makers were going for, but it's how I justified it. I haven't seen the movie yet so this is just what I would have done is have Jean somehow connected to the phoenix force, which is why she manifest's the phoenix with her untapped powers, and when she used her full abilities to kill Apocalypse this sort of summoned the Phoenix force as it sensed her power through the galaxy, this explains why it never appears in the original timeline as Jean never used her powers to this degree until just before she died, which also justifies it never appearing after as it sensed Jean's death at the end.
This would directly tie Dark Phoenix into Apocalypse and make it mean more, so Jean's world saving actions in one lead to the drama of the next film and then if you have Jean take control of the power and die or leave you know whatever you do to make her save the day you make this a 2 part story kind of deal, and would tie into from what I hear Xaviers story is, with the road to hell is paved with good intentions idea behind both of their stories and the different outcomes that can arise from it.
That reasoning might be even better. It's still lots of mental gymnastics you have to do to make what you see in Apocalypse to what happens in Dark Phoenix. And it's all on you because they don't explain it. Instead of her always having fire like abilities along with telekinesis/telepath. (like Lord Death Man says she's never had pyro abilities herself). Have her always have a mental link with the phoenix force, but the connection doesn't strengthen complete until letting go in Apocalypse. The completed link brings the phoenix force to her physically. And it takes like a decade to get to earth. Edit: What we see in Apocalypse is the mental projection of the Phoenix Force when she completes the Mental Link. That draws the Force to her and the Physical bonding happens in Dark Phoenix. All of this is just justification. We shouldn't have to do it, but oh well.
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Post by Lord Death Man on Jun 16, 2019 19:05:59 GMT
I haven't seen the movie yet so this is just what I would have done is have Jean somehow connected to the phoenix force, which is why she manifest's the phoenix with her untapped powers, and when she used her full abilities to kill Apocalypse this sort of summoned the Phoenix force as it sensed her power through the galaxy, this explains why it never appears in the original timeline as Jean never used her powers to this degree until just before she died, which also justifies it never appearing after as it sensed Jean's death at the end.
This would directly tie Dark Phoenix into Apocalypse and make it mean more, so Jean's world saving actions in one lead to the drama of the next film and then if you have Jean take control of the power and die or leave you know whatever you do to make her save the day you make this a 2 part story kind of deal, and would tie into from what I hear Xaviers story is, with the road to hell is paved with good intentions idea behind both of their stories and the different outcomes that can arise from it.
That reasoning might be even better. It's still lots of mental gymnastics you have to do to make what you see in Apocalypse to what happens in Dark Phoenix. And it's all on you because they don't explain it. Instead of her always having fire like abilities along with telekinesis/telepath. (like Lord Death Man says she's never had pyro abilities herself). Have her always have a mental link with the phoenix force, but the connection doesn't strengthen complete until letting go in Apocalypse. The completed link brings the phoenix force to her physically. And it takes like a decade to get to earth. Edit: What we see in Apocalypse is the mental projection of the Phoenix Force when she completes the Mental Link. That draws the Force to her and the Physical bonding happens in Dark Phoenix. All of this is just justification. We shouldn't have to do it, but oh well. Even now, as Fox serves the fans another generous helping of excrement, people are, yet again, trying to make one of their film's internally consistent. Look at Martin Brundle - Martinfly; he's dedicated a considerable portion of his life to making sense of Fox's continuity gaffs and blatant disregard for the source material. Why bother? It's nearly over.
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Post by ThatGuy on Jun 16, 2019 19:09:34 GMT
Yeah, but not in the way of getting us to Dark Phoenix. It's like they had to make this movie Dark Phoenix because they made Jean Phoenix at the end of Apocalypse. There is no real evolution of story. Just, "Okay let's fit this major story in next." Even that doesn't work from what I hear, in Apocalypse Jean had the Phoenix power, like in the original timeline the Phoenix was part of her, in Dark Phoenix it's like nope cosmic space creature or whatever.
Do they atleast explain that or not?
When it comes to X-men movie canon/timeline, Kinda Funny's motto is "Forget what you know." Every time someone goes "Wait, I thought--," they'll get cut off with "Forget what you know." On the Weekly Planet they said "If you're gonna only remember the previous X-men movie, continuity-wise, that's fine. Doesn't work anymore."
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Post by Vassaggo on Jun 16, 2019 19:12:59 GMT
That reasoning might be even better. It's still lots of mental gymnastics you have to do to make what you see in Apocalypse to what happens in Dark Phoenix. And it's all on you because they don't explain it. Instead of her always having fire like abilities along with telekinesis/telepath. (like Lord Death Man says she's never had pyro abilities herself). Have her always have a mental link with the phoenix force, but the connection doesn't strengthen complete until letting go in Apocalypse. The completed link brings the phoenix force to her physically. And it takes like a decade to get to earth. Edit: What we see in Apocalypse is the mental projection of the Phoenix Force when she completes the Mental Link. That draws the Force to her and the Physical bonding happens in Dark Phoenix. All of this is just justification. We shouldn't have to do it, but oh well. Even now, as Fox serves the fans another generous helping of excrement, people are, yet again, trying to make one of their film's internally consistent. Look at Martin Brundle - Martinfly ; he's dedicated a considerable portion of his life to making sense of Fox's continuity gaffs and blatant disregard for the source material. Why bother? It's nearly over. I do it, but I ain't happy about it.
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Post by Lord Death Man on Jun 16, 2019 19:28:10 GMT
Even now, as Fox serves the fans another generous helping of excrement, people are, yet again, trying to make one of their film's internally consistent. Look at Martin Brundle - Martinfly ; he's dedicated a considerable portion of his life to making sense of Fox's continuity gaffs and blatant disregard for the source material. Why bother? It's nearly over. I do it, but I ain't happy about it. I believe you. Soon, that will be all there is to do.
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Post by scabab on Jun 16, 2019 19:29:21 GMT
A 72% weekend drop. It ain't the 77% at least but it's the worst drop a superhero movie has ever had.
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Post by Vassaggo on Jun 16, 2019 19:31:07 GMT
I do it, but I ain't happy about it. I believe you. Soon, that will be all there is to do. It's going to be kinda weird, pleasantly so, when I won't have to do it anymore when they enter the MCU.
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Post by Vassaggo on Jun 16, 2019 19:32:50 GMT
A 72% weekend drop. It ain't the 77% at least but it's the worst drop a superhero movie has ever had. what's the projection for complete box (domestic and/or ww) office now you think?
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Post by ThatGuy on Jun 16, 2019 19:33:21 GMT
I haven't seen the movie yet so this is just what I would have done is have Jean somehow connected to the phoenix force, which is why she manifest's the phoenix with her untapped powers, and when she used her full abilities to kill Apocalypse this sort of summoned the Phoenix force as it sensed her power through the galaxy, this explains why it never appears in the original timeline as Jean never used her powers to this degree until just before she died, which also justifies it never appearing after as it sensed Jean's death at the end.
This would directly tie Dark Phoenix into Apocalypse and make it mean more, so Jean's world saving actions in one lead to the drama of the next film and then if you have Jean take control of the power and die or leave you know whatever you do to make her save the day you make this a 2 part story kind of deal, and would tie into from what I hear Xaviers story is, with the road to hell is paved with good intentions idea behind both of their stories and the different outcomes that can arise from it.
That reasoning might be even better. It's still lots of mental gymnastics you have to do to make what you see in Apocalypse to what happens in Dark Phoenix. And it's all on you because they don't explain it. Instead of her always having fire like abilities along with telekinesis/telepath. (like Lord Death Man says she's never had pyro abilities herself). Have her always have a mental link with the phoenix force, but the connection doesn't strengthen complete until letting go in Apocalypse. The completed link brings the phoenix force to her physically. And it takes like a decade to get to earth. Edit: What we see in Apocalypse is the mental projection of the Phoenix Force when she completes the Mental Link. That draws the Force to her and the Physical bonding happens in Dark Phoenix. All of this is just justification. We shouldn't have to do it, but oh well. I remember a while back when Stan Lee said he was fond of Storm because controlling the weather isn't an evolved ability or something like that. This made me think about how powers work. Especially mental powers. Like all of them are telekinesis based on themes created by the person. Jean is a powerful telekinetic that can create friction in the air to create fire. Same with Storm being a telekinesis that is able to create electricity and water to simulate the weather. Rogue being a tactile telepath. It takes the characters down to their bare bones, but it could explain a lot of things.
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Post by ThatGuy on Jun 16, 2019 19:35:53 GMT
A 72% weekend drop. It ain't the 77% at least but it's the worst drop a superhero movie has ever had. Wow... I guess word of mouth is hitting hard. Or maybe people are saving their movie time for Spider-man?
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Post by Agent of Chaos on Jun 16, 2019 19:48:59 GMT
Yeah, but not in the way of getting us to Dark Phoenix. It's like they had to make this movie Dark Phoenix because they made Jean Phoenix at the end of Apocalypse. There is no real evolution of story. Just, "Okay let's fit this major story in next." Well it was originally a two parter so there probably was going to be a evolution.
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Post by scabab on Jun 16, 2019 19:49:03 GMT
what's the projection for complete box (domestic and/or ww) office now you think? Well like I said the other day, Apocalypse had a $9.9 million third weekend and then made another $19 million. This just had a $9 million weekend, it's not making another $19 million. Theatres are obliged to keep a hold of a movie throughout its first two weekends, I imagine it'll have a big theatre drop next weekend so it'll have another big drop. I can't see it hitting $70 million domestic. Worldwide I don't really know, maybe $270 million.
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Post by Agent of Chaos on Jun 16, 2019 20:02:16 GMT
A 72% weekend drop. It ain't the 77% at least but it's the worst drop a superhero movie has ever had. Wow... I guess word of mouth is hitting hard. Or maybe people are saving their movie time for Spider-man? The X-films have always had big drops and this has far more competition than any other X-film. Judging from what I am seeing on social media the general census seems to be that it’s “okay”. It has enough cool visual effects, action, and moves at a fast pace to make it watchable. But being “okay” is not enough to save it people wait for okay films to be release on home media.
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Post by Martin Brundle - Martinfly on Jun 16, 2019 20:10:00 GMT
That reasoning might be even better. It's still lots of mental gymnastics you have to do to make what you see in Apocalypse to what happens in Dark Phoenix. And it's all on you because they don't explain it. Instead of her always having fire like abilities along with telekinesis/telepath. (like Lord Death Man says she's never had pyro abilities herself). Have her always have a mental link with the phoenix force, but the connection doesn't strengthen complete until letting go in Apocalypse. The completed link brings the phoenix force to her physically. And it takes like a decade to get to earth. Edit: What we see in Apocalypse is the mental projection of the Phoenix Force when she completes the Mental Link. That draws the Force to her and the Physical bonding happens in Dark Phoenix. All of this is just justification. We shouldn't have to do it, but oh well. Even now, as Fox serves the fans another generous helping of excrement, people are, yet again, trying to make one of their film's internally consistent. Look at Martin Brundle - Martinfly ; he's dedicated a considerable portion of his life to making sense of Fox's continuity gaffs and blatant disregard for the source material. Why bother? It's nearly over. The Fox X-Men movies are brilliant and fine. "Dark Phoenix" has been sadly butchered in the post-production phase, that's it. Nothing a Director's Cut cannot fix. I dedicated a very small portion of my life, don't worry man. It's all put on-screen after all. Fox X-Men nitpickers, bashers and trolls are 100% funny. For decades they lived a very angry life. Just change franchise LOL
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Post by Agent of Chaos on Jun 16, 2019 20:12:07 GMT
Even now, as Fox serves the fans another generous helping of excrement, people are, yet again, trying to make one of their film's internally consistent. Look at Martin Brundle - Martinfly ; he's dedicated a considerable portion of his life to making sense of Fox's continuity gaffs and blatant disregard for the source material. Why bother? It's nearly over. The Fox X-Men movies are brilliant and fine. "Dark Phoenix" was butchered in post-production, that's it. Nothing a Director's Cut cannot fix. I dedicated a very small portion of my life, don't worry man. It's all put on-screen after all. Fox X-Men nitpickers, bashers and trolls are 100% funny to me. For decades they lived an angry life. Just change franchise LOL Actually, it got fucked in late pre-production.
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Post by Agent of Chaos on Jun 16, 2019 20:16:15 GMT
dazz Vassaggo Lord Death Man ThatGuy About the Phoenix thing: it’s basically Chris Claremont’s interpretation of the “Phoenix”. Phoenix was just a codename after Jean reaches her full potential as psychic that was unlocked by a nameless primal force that bonded. The Phoenix aura is a natural part of Jean and it was something that her daughter Rachel developed without the need of bonding with a cosmic entity.
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Post by Lord Death Man on Jun 16, 2019 20:24:22 GMT
That reasoning might be even better. It's still lots of mental gymnastics you have to do to make what you see in Apocalypse to what happens in Dark Phoenix. And it's all on you because they don't explain it. Instead of her always having fire like abilities along with telekinesis/telepath. (like Lord Death Man says she's never had pyro abilities herself). Have her always have a mental link with the phoenix force, but the connection doesn't strengthen complete until letting go in Apocalypse. The completed link brings the phoenix force to her physically. And it takes like a decade to get to earth. Edit: What we see in Apocalypse is the mental projection of the Phoenix Force when she completes the Mental Link. That draws the Force to her and the Physical bonding happens in Dark Phoenix. All of this is just justification. We shouldn't have to do it, but oh well. I remember a while back when Stan Lee said he was fond of Storm because controlling the weather isn't an evolved ability or something like that. This made me think about how powers work. Especially mental powers. Like all of them are telekinesis based on themes created by the person. Jean is a powerful telekinetic that can create friction in the air to create fire. Same with Storm being a telekinesis that is able to create electricity and water to simulate the weather. Rogue being a tactile telepath. It takes the characters down to their bare bones, but it could explain a lot of things. If you can stimulate friction in the air to create fire, you are pyrokinetic. Telekinesis, as is frequently depicted in Marvel comics, is the ability to move and manipulate objects from a distance. Telepathy is the ability to intercept and interpret the brain waves of others as thoughts. Some telepaths can control the brainwaves of others as well. Since the brain controls the body, telepathy does not merely end at mind reading. Filmmaker David Cronenberg aptly described telepathy as the linking of two (or more) nervous systems separated by space. The Phoenix Force is the embodiment of all psionic energy that ever was and ever will be. It is a "creation force," which makes sense as the act of creation requires conscious thought and intent. The Phoenix Force augments Jean's natural mutant abilities as a telepath and a telekinetic. Whereas she was able to read the thoughts of one or more individuals on her own, with the Phoenix Force she can read, control and project her thoughts into the minds of hundreds of thousands if not millions of sentient beings. Her telekinetic abilities are also similarly augmented. Whereas she was previously able to halt, move, lift or throw objects mentally, with the Phoenix Force, she is able to manipulate objects on the sub-atomic level telekinetically. When Jean disintegrates someone in one of those ash clouds the Fox movies are so fond of, she is pulling them apart molecule by molecule. There is likely no heat involved. The Phoenix Force can do a bunch of other stuff as well. Storm is an atmokinetic; she can mentally manipulate the Earth's magnetic field to change the weather patterns of its ecosystem (or any planet's echo system for that matter). If she were telekinetic, she could lift a large boulder --- directly --- with her thoughts.
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