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Post by James on Aug 24, 2019 18:27:11 GMT
The time travel is “poor” only because it doesn’t work like that in this universe. Time travel never even existed so why should this even be something to argue about?
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Post by ThatGuy on Aug 24, 2019 21:59:16 GMT
Did I miss something? I was just told it wasn't? I think we all know it classifies as a time travel movie. Depends on your classification of a "time travel movie". Does a movie simply need to employ time travel in some capacity to be considered a time travel movie, or does it need to be about time travel? Endgame uses time travel, but it is not about time travel. There is a distinction between the two that seems to have escaped you. It's interesting how often fans of other franchises need to come to the MCU board to be schooled in such things. Exactly. It's like saying that Dr. Strange is a time travel movie. Or even Infinity War.
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thenolan
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Post by thenolan on Aug 25, 2019 4:25:38 GMT
As for flashpoint, the story of time travel is less cliche than endgame. I love how both DOFP and Flashpoint dwell on the concept that the heroes could not win by simply beating up the bad guys. Making time travel even more necessary and more understanding. I was bored when I saw another big avengers battle, it has sucked since Loki did it in Avengers 1. Space court drama would have been better, Thanos snaps his fingers, brings everyone back, dies and redeems himself. this is what Endgame needed. Avengers are like uneducated Cavemens, they solve everything with fights and blows. I prefer the story telling of Mystique and Barry Flash Allen in DOFP and Flash Ppoint, who had to make personal sacrifices at the end of the movie for the heroes to win. not the heroes wining because they can easily beat up the villains that killed them before time travel brought them back to get their revenge.
No it didn't and Flashpoint, atleast the film did have that, Barry had to beat Eobard so he could reconnect fully to the speedforce so he could go back to the past and let his mother die, Flashpoint simply had it where the smaller battles didn't matter, Wonder woman Vs. Aquaman doesn't matter really, it's not important beyond giving Barry the reason to put things back after that the battle between Atlantis & the Amazons only matters to provide an action packed backdrop, Endgame did do this also, Spider-Man was dogpiled and would likely have died but the fight that mattered was over the stones, Tony got them and ended everything, only issue really is they didn't show enough of other characters struggling imo, but that would also be called cliché by anyone wanting to look for negativity, that Tony saves everyone by using the stones nullifying the results of individual battles.
Barry Allen made the though choice to let his mum die than to save her again. that was the sacrifice I am talking about. everyone hero in the film lost, had barry not gone back to stop himself, the villains would have won. Superman is actually dead in that movie.
FC was not a soft reboot it was a prequel. a prequel where not everything added up very much like the star wars prequels and every prequel but that is not the conversation we are having here. I can easily point how how Captain marvel and spiderman homecoming have things in the film that doesn't add up without mentioning Endgame that has destroyed the entire mcu timeline forever. that is one of the problems of doing prequels for any series or visiting an earlier point in time.
DOFP was not pulled for the time travel issues because it is far from as messy as endgame is. make it about money because that is the only criteria to defend these messed up immature mcu movies. Endgame made more money than sort code, interstellar, terminator, deja vu, back to the future and every other time travel movie. I care more about what's in the movie than what new shinning toy Disney is selling.
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thenolan
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Post by thenolan on Aug 25, 2019 4:29:09 GMT
Yeah it is. I think it's hilarious there's even a debate about MCU's credibility on this - when there's the likes of oh I dunno, Time Stone & Quantum Realm sci-fi at play. lols I just had to sit through time crystals with star trek discovery and star trek claims to be mostly hard sci -fi.
I heard MCU always likes to do this silly, easy and mindless.It's not surprising they could not do any actual research to make a sensible time travel movie.
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thenolan
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Post by thenolan on Aug 25, 2019 4:35:17 GMT
Depends on your classification of a "time travel movie". Does a movie simply need to employ time travel in some capacity to be considered a time travel movie, or does it need to be about time travel? Endgame uses time travel, but it is not about time travel. There is a distinction between the two that seems to have escaped you. It's interesting how often fans of other franchises need to come to the MCU board to be schooled in such things. Exactly. It's like saying that Dr. Strange is a time travel movie. Or even Infinity War. Dude, Endgame is a time travel movie. Just a bad one. Google time travel movies, its now the first to come up. Endgame would even qualify more as a time travel move to DOFP because wormholes and space time tunnels is science fiction, while psychics sending minds back is science fantasy.
Dr Strange is not a time travel movie, Endgame mentioned time travel many times in the film to the point of slamming another time travel movie as garbage.Guess the joke is on Endgame not Back to the future.
This is not just ridiculous, it is pathetic to see MCU fans saying Endgame is not a time travel movie because the plot was terrible.
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Post by damngumby on Aug 25, 2019 16:24:46 GMT
Dude, Endgame is a time travel movie. Just a bad one. Google time travel movies, its now the first to come up. I Googled "time travel movies". No mention of Endgame. Let's try "time travel movies 2019" ... nope, nothing. Let's try "time travel action movies" ... zip. "time travel science fiction movies" ... nada. Let's try "superhero movies" ... bingo! How about "greatest superhero movies ever made" ... jackpot! You were saying?
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Post by ThatGuy on Aug 25, 2019 18:41:25 GMT
The time travel is “poor” only because it doesn’t work like that in this universe. Time travel never even existed so why should this even be something to argue about? You argue about it because you want it to be wrong. You want other movies to be the better movies. You don't want the now popular to be seen as good. If the MCU was was popular, but niche, he'd most likely be loving them. He's always saying how he liked the MCU until Avengers. You know, when they left being niche popular.
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Post by ThatGuy on Aug 25, 2019 18:45:38 GMT
Dude, Endgame is a time travel movie. Just a bad one. Google time travel movies, its now the first to come up. I Googled "time travel movies". No mention of Endgame. Let's try "time travel movies 2019" ... nope, nothing. Let's try "time travel action movies" ... zip. "time travel science fiction movies" ... nada. Let's try "superhero movies" ... bingo! How about "greatest superhero movies ever made" ... jackpot! You were saying? Crazy, right?
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Post by James on Aug 25, 2019 20:31:28 GMT
The time travel is “poor” only because it doesn’t work like that in this universe. Time travel never even existed so why should this even be something to argue about? You argue about it because you want it to be wrong. You want other movies to be the better movies. You don't want the now popular to be seen as good. If the MCU was was popular, but niche, he'd most likely be loving them. He's always saying how he liked the MCU until Avengers. You know, when they left being niche popular. Touche.
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Post by dazz on Aug 25, 2019 20:44:08 GMT
No it didn't and Flashpoint, atleast the film did have that, Barry had to beat Eobard so he could reconnect fully to the speedforce so he could go back to the past and let his mother die, Flashpoint simply had it where the smaller battles didn't matter, Wonder woman Vs. Aquaman doesn't matter really, it's not important beyond giving Barry the reason to put things back after that the battle between Atlantis & the Amazons only matters to provide an action packed backdrop, Endgame did do this also, Spider-Man was dogpiled and would likely have died but the fight that mattered was over the stones, Tony got them and ended everything, only issue really is they didn't show enough of other characters struggling imo, but that would also be called cliché by anyone wanting to look for negativity, that Tony saves everyone by using the stones nullifying the results of individual battles.
Barry Allen made the though choice to let his mum die than to save her again. that was the sacrifice I am talking about. everyone hero in the film lost, had barry not gone back to stop himself, the villains would have won. Superman is actually dead in that movie.
FC was not a soft reboot it was a prequel. a prequel where not everything added up very much like the star wars prequels and every prequel but that is not the conversation we are having here. I can easily point how how Captain marvel and spiderman homecoming have things in the film that doesn't add up without mentioning Endgame that has destroyed the entire mcu timeline forever. that is one of the problems of doing prequels for any series or visiting an earlier point in time.
DOFP was not pulled for the time travel issues because it is far from as messy as endgame is. make it about money because that is the only criteria to defend these messed up immature mcu movies. Endgame made more money than sort code, interstellar, terminator, deja vu, back to the future and every other time travel movie. I care more about what's in the movie than what new shinning toy Disney is selling.
Barry's sacrifice is no different to Tony's both sacrifice to save everyone else, difference being Tony gives up his life leaving his daughter behind whilst Barry lets his mother die like she was meant to, one difference is Tony's means more because he's not the only one who could make that sacrifice in theory, where as with Flashpoint didn't the world get nuked at the end before Barry fixes things? So that's Barry literally having no other choice but to fix things or else everyone dies regardless Vs Tony choosing to give up his life to save everyone in existence.
Though that being said I still think Flashpoint did a far better job of making that choice feel important by showing us specifically what Barry is saving by making his choice, in Endgame whilst we know if he doesn't make the choice everyone dies, except for Spidey not anyone else feels like they are imminent danger of dying, Endgame had a more meaningful sacrifice whilst Flashpoint made the moment of the sacrifice feel bigger imo.
First Class was a soft reboot, it didn't have minor things wrong narratively from the original trilogy, it deviated from them hugely right from the get go, does the MCU have some timeline issues? yeah but they are mostly minor or are eye rolling, only real big one being Fury, but Endgame doesn't really muck up the timeline as the time travel shown in Endgame doesn't alter the main MCU timeline, they are alternative timelines instead.
And yes it can be an issue with prequels but only if done poorly, no different than a sequel, if you do not pay attention to established details then you fuck things up, has nothing to do with prequels or not, small details are therefore acceptable inconsistencies, Xavier having hair still when he first became paralyzed is an acceptable deviation, Xavier becoming paralyzed 20 years earlier than established not so much, Toad looking very different from his X1 iteration is acceptable, Xavier's whole story of Magneto helping to build Cerebro and Xavier's surprise he can shield himself from it or everyone being amazed by the invention of a cure when Beast & Xavier have one and are using it in the 70's again not so much, this isn't an issue with it being a prequel it's an issue of poor writing.
DOFP was pulled up for time travel issues, it just didn't get as much discussion as Endgame due to it being less popular, it's simple maths, if 1 in 100 people who see a movie discuss that movie on the internet then a movie that was seen by over 4 times as many people is going to have 4 times as many people discussing it, so it will have more discussions about everything about it than the other movie, this isn't defending Endgame by going it's better it made more money, it's pointing out the flaw in your argument that DOFP didn't get called out as much over their time travel, because ok that's true but it's also true DOFP wasn't as discussed as Endgame has been, that being said DOFP was pulled up for it's time travel and should have been, if the timeline changes set in once the link is broken then shouldn't everything have changed once Future Logan's consciousness left his past self's body?
Otherwise it's got the standard BTTF issue of time travel that got brought up in Endgame that such a form of time travel is broken, if you going into the past from a dystopian future how is that now possible in this pleasant world? by removing the need and means of time traveling you cease to make that version of you a possibility which means you cant have gone back into the past, so the timeline happens naturally, which creates the need to time travel which leads us back here and it's an endless loop.
But you just keep being a retard it suits you.
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Post by dazz on Aug 25, 2019 20:51:23 GMT
Yeah it is. I think it's hilarious there's even a debate about MCU's credibility on this - when there's the likes of oh I dunno, Time Stone & Quantum Realm sci-fi at play. lols I just had to sit through time crystals with star trek discovery and star trek claims to be mostly hard sci -fi.
I heard MCU always likes to do this silly, easy and mindless.It's not surprising they could not do any actual research to make a sensible time travel movie.
Didn't they actually get like a scientist who specialises in this sort of theoretical science and he gave them these mechanics?
If so shows how dumb you are, if not then where the fuck did I hear this?
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Post by damngumby on Aug 26, 2019 2:44:49 GMT
I Googled "time travel movies". No mention of Endgame. Let's try "time travel movies 2019" ... nope, nothing. Let's try "time travel action movies" ... zip. "time travel science fiction movies" ... nada. Let's try "superhero movies" ... bingo! How about "greatest superhero movies ever made" ... jackpot! You were saying? Crazy, right? Shall we move thenolan into the fucking moron column? ... now that dcfan has fled the scene.
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thenolan
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Post by thenolan on Aug 26, 2019 4:58:41 GMT
The time travel is “poor” only because it doesn’t work like that in this universe. Time travel never even existed so why should this even be something to argue about? You argue about it because you want it to be wrong. You want other movies to be the better movies. You don't want the now popular to be seen as good. If the MCU was was popular, but niche, he'd most likely be loving them. He's always saying how he liked the MCU until Avengers. You know, when they left being niche popular.
Ben Sharpiro is that you again?
MCU fanboys are like Ben , they whine they are popular as a means of rejecting facts and reality until they are put in the real world of experienced men and grown ups and they expose themselves as the least most popular intelligent kids out there.
Endgame gets the honour as one of the most popular bad time travel movies.
Looks like the votes are in 77% to 23%. its a time travel film.
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thenolan
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Post by thenolan on Aug 26, 2019 5:00:39 GMT
Shall we move thenolan into the fucking moron column? ... now that dcfan has fled the scene. I googled it , it came up. For a movie you guys are saying its not a time travel film. time travel is the most controversial and talked about part of the film.
I already told Dazz, stop with the stupid name calling. It's only hurting the MCU ability to write a good film.
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Post by Hauntedknight87 on Aug 26, 2019 11:10:38 GMT
I guess technically it is. But I've looked at it as a comic book movie.
Same with Days of Future past.
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Post by taylorfirst1 on Aug 26, 2019 16:25:44 GMT
What the heck is a time travel movie? It's like calling "True Grit" a horse riding movie. Just another pathetic attempt by sore loser fan boys to try and create anything negative about the biggest and most successful CBM of all time.
But all of their sock puppets agree with each other so they claim it is a widely accepted controversy. Pathetic delusions.
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thenolan
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Post by thenolan on Aug 26, 2019 18:07:19 GMT
I guess technically it is. But I've looked at it as a comic book movie. Same with Days of Future past. Like Star Trek movies, Interstellar , The Time Machine.
They are time travel movies but science fiction adventures.
Movies can have different genres.
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Post by Hauntedknight87 on Aug 26, 2019 18:12:39 GMT
I guess technically it is. But I've looked at it as a comic book movie. Same with Days of Future past. Like Star Trek movies, Interstellar , The Time Machine.
They are time travel movies but science fiction adventures.
Movies can have different genres.
But none of those have silly costume super heroes fighting CGI armies like they do in Endgame and DOFP. And their source material is a comic book. They're comic book movies.
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thenolan
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Post by thenolan on Aug 26, 2019 18:38:38 GMT
Like Star Trek movies, Interstellar , The Time Machine.
They are time travel movies but science fiction adventures.
Movies can have different genres.
But none of those have silly costume super heroes fighting CGI armies like they do in Endgame and DOFP. And their source material is a comic book. They're comic book movies. DOFP and Endgame are time travel comic book films as much as Star Trek and Interstellar are time travel space science fiction movies compared to The Time Machine that is not a space science time travel film.
DOFP Endgame Surprise of all Surprises. Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice makes the list too. Apparently that one cameo of flash going back in time to warn Bruce about something I cannot remember was enough for the movie to be considered a time travel movie.
Those saying Endgame is not a time travel film because the concept is so poorly done are just acting childish. Fitting for the movie's core audience if you ask me. This is not for the Interstellar minds.
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Post by Hauntedknight87 on Aug 26, 2019 18:51:53 GMT
But none of those have silly costume super heroes fighting CGI armies like they do in Endgame and DOFP. And their source material is a comic book. They're comic book movies. DOFP and Endgame are time travel comic book films as much as Star Trek and Interstellar are time travel space science fiction movies compared to The Time Machine that is not a space science time travel film.
DOFP Endgame Surprise of all Surprises. Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice makes the list too. Apparently that one cameo of flash going back in time to warn Bruce about something I cannot remember was enough for the movie to be considered a time travel movie.
Those saying Endgame is not a time travel film because the concept is so poorly done are just acting childish. Fitting for the movie's core audience if you ask me. This is not for the Interstellar minds.
Given the source material as far as I'm concerned they're comic book movies. If you really want me in the middle we can call it all fantasy.
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