|
Post by itsmagic on Oct 21, 2019 6:35:45 GMT
it is IMPOSSIBLE for God to lie.
'Impossible' and yet apparently the Bible tells the truth, even if God sometimes does not: 1 Kings 22:23 Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the LORD hath spoken evil concerning thee. 2 Chronicles 18:22 Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of these thy prophets, and the LORD hath spoken evil against thee. Jeremiah 4:10 Then said I, Ah, Lord GOD! surely thou hast greatly deceived this people and Jerusalem, saying, Ye shall have peace; whereas the sword reacheth unto the soul. Jeremiah 20:7 O LORD, thou hast deceived me, and I was deceived: thou art stronger than I, and hast prevailed: I am in derision daily, every one mocketh me. Ezekiel 14:9 And if the prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I the LORD have deceived that prophet, and I will stretch out my hand upon him, and will destroy him from the midst of my people Israel. 2 Thessalonians 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:The apologist and special pleaders at this point will argue that it is not God but a proxy on His behalf in most cases doing the deceiving. But, as has been pointed out before, in a similar example if I was to send an assassin to kill someone does that not make of me a murderer all the same? The law for one says it would. There is also the observation that if God is perfect then His deceit would be perfect i.e. it would fool utterly. So how would we ever know we have been tricked? no matter what God does, some people try to blame God for something. He told the people the truth through His Word in His True prophets.
these people are allowed to be deceived because the refused to believe the truth. this illustrates how people harden their hearts against God.
at some point, God gives them over to believe lies. He then hardens their hearts even more because they would not hear what He has to say.
these are judgements against evildoers of the worst kind. they were worshiping demons at the temples of idols. the most perverse kinds of
sexual deviance was sold to them. they even made their children sacrifices to demons. ( made them pass through the fire ).
{re: edit below}
they loved the lies of demons more than the truth and the love of God. they laughed at the true prophets of God. so God allows them to be
deceived by lying demons. the ultimate Irony is the deceiver is the father of all lies - the devil himself.
the real question Is do You believe what God has said in His Word ? if not, you have been & are being deceived by demons.
how do you know you have been tricked ? the devil knows more scripture than you. he has been doing this since the garden of eden.
what were his first questions to eve ?
has God said ?
{re:edit 10 30 **trigger warning** horrific idolatry - 2 Kings 16:3,21:6,23:10,2 Chronicle 33:6,Jeremiah 32:35,Ezekiel 20:26,31}
|
|
|
Post by FilmFlaneur on Oct 21, 2019 19:30:57 GMT
'Impossible' and yet apparently the Bible tells the truth, even if God sometimes does not: no matter what God does, some people try to blame God for something. He told the people the truth through His Word in His True prophets. I can't speak for others, but as someone who lacks belief in your purported deity it would be illogical to blame Him (as opposed to critiquing the idea of God) for anything. Meanwhile the issue over whether prophecy in the Bible has been always fulfilled has been covered elsewhere on this board of late, including the prominent example called by no less an authority as CS Lewis as "the most embarrassing verse in the Bible". That would a QED then, and I thank you. A lie is not a judgement. Unless of course it is of the deceiver. I am sure that you have bible verse depicting this striking event, please quote it. It is arguable that the ultimate irony is as previously observed that a perfect being would, whatever it does, do it perfectly; so God by definition would the ultimate liar, indeed the measure against which all liars are measured. Don't take my word for it, look at Aquinas' 'Fourth Way' from which this kind of theological reasoning is derived. If you mean the Bible then you really ought to know that "All scripture is given by inspiration of God" (2Tim 3:16) and so not His word. I am not sure of your point here but as I lack belief in demons just as I lack belief in your purported deity, then the question is quite bye-the-bye. however strictly speaking since the devil is not perfect but just cunning it is reasonable to assume that God would be the more accomplished liar.
|
|
|
Post by gadreel on Oct 24, 2019 0:31:33 GMT
That is correct, Goz cannot prove a negative, at best she was ill informed making that statement. I responded suggesting that it was not as cut and dried as Goz was implying, I have since provided at least two peer-reviewed articles and numerous secondary sources that show that academics and researchers in the field believe that there may be a genetic component to how religious a person is. I am not here to prove that religion is inherited, merely to point out that the relevant scholars do not feel the same way as Goz does. I am not arguing from a point of Bias, my stance is agnostic in terms of gods existence, my point is that Goz made a spurious claim, a point I have backed up with overwhelming evidence. Can you re-post the links so I can review it? Thanks. Here you go: thequestforagoodlife.wordpress.com/2009/10/13/the-genetics-of-religion-and-spirituality/
www.newscientist.com/article/dn7147-genes-contribute-to-religious-inclination/Feel free to vete them, but do bear in mind that Goz made a claim that there is no genetic tendency to religion, she made an absolute claim that she has been incapable of backing, all I wanted to do was show her that at least some specialists in the field (ranging from academics to genetic scientists) do not agree with this. I have amply proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that Goz's view is not held by these professionals in the field and that her statement that 'There is no genetic disposition towards religion or faith' is not one that is accepted as the universal truth.
|
|
|
Post by goz on Oct 24, 2019 2:58:23 GMT
It purely depends on what the definition of religion is. My point was it can't be quantified therefore there can be no scientifically provable link.
|
|
|
Post by itsmagic on Oct 24, 2019 3:48:32 GMT
no matter what God does, some people try to blame God for something. He told the people the truth through His Word in His True prophets. these people are allowed to be deceived because the refused to believe the truth. this illustrates how people harden their hearts against God. at some point, God gives them over to believe lies. He then hardens their hearts even more because they would not hear what He has to say. these are judgements against evildoers of the worst kind. they were worshiping demons at the temples of idols. the most perverse kinds of sexual deviance was sold to them. they even put their children into metal idols heated red hot to be burned alive to demons.
they loved the lies of demons more than the truth and the love of God. they laughed at the true prophets of God. so God allows them to be deceived by lying demons. the ultimate Irony is the deceiver is the father of all lies - the devil himself. the real question Is do You believe what God has said in His Word ? if not, you have been & are being deceived by demons. how do you know you have been tricked ? the devil knows more scripture than you. he has been doing this since the garden of eden. what were his first questions to eve ? has God said ? Sunshine! You have been lied too and only deceiving yourself in the process.
He said " I AM the WAY, the TRUTH, and the LIFE".
then HE ROSE FROM THE DEAD.
sorry if that looks like i'm shouting. i'm happy about it !!
|
|
|
Post by progressiveelement on Oct 24, 2019 10:08:16 GMT
You believe in Gods, I'll believe in men.
|
|
|
Post by itsmagic on Oct 24, 2019 11:49:57 GMT
He said " I AM the WAY, the TRUTH, and the LIFE".
then HE ROSE FROM THE DEAD.
sorry if that looks like i'm shouting. i'm happy about it !!
Yeah! The Walking Dead. A lot to be happy about. You don’t appear to understand context or transcendence. It was not a physical resurrection doofus. you don't understand God or His Word. Jesus resurrected in His body. He was seen by the disciples in numerous places before ascending
back to heaven. He met with and ate food with them. over 500 saw him at once. Bodily resurrection Proves He IS the Son of God.
"doubting" Thomas put his fingers in the nail holes. Thomas, who refused to believe until he could feel and touch his wounds,
fell down and said "my Lord and my God". later, saul who became Paul saw Him on the damascus road. there were many others who
saw him before he ascended bodily into the heavens in the presence of the angels.
|
|
|
Post by itsmagic on Oct 24, 2019 12:59:46 GMT
you don't understand God or His Word. Jesus resurrected in His body. He was seen by the disciples in numerous places before ascending
back to heaven. He met with and ate food with them. over 500 saw him at once. Bodily resurrection Proves He IS the of God.
"doubting" Thomas put his fingers in the nail holes. Thomas, who refused to believe until he could feel and touch his wounds,
fell down and said "my Lord and my God". later, saul who became Paul saw Him on the damascus road. there were many others who
saw him before he ascended bodily into the heavens in the presence of the angels.
try reading Matthew,Mark,Luke, John,1&2 Peter, 1,2,3 John, Acts of the Apostles, the letters of Paul, Hebrews and Revelation
|
|
Huxley
Sophomore
@huxley
Posts: 258
Likes: 86
|
Post by Huxley on Oct 24, 2019 13:09:09 GMT
People unlike animals have a soul/spirit which from birth is tuned into God. Some more than others. It's natural to seek God and the things of God. It's built into our DNA.
|
|
|
Post by ArArArchStanton on Oct 24, 2019 14:31:07 GMT
People unlike animals have a soul/spirit which from birth is tuned into God. Some more than others. It's natural to seek God and the things of God. It's built into our DNA. People are animals. In fact we are a member of the great apes. That’s right, humans are apes, look it up if you didn’t know that. And unless you have evidence for a soul, those are a myth.
|
|
|
Post by ArArArchStanton on Oct 24, 2019 14:32:21 GMT
try reading Matthew,Mark,Luke, John,1&2 Peter, 1,2,3 John, Acts of the Apostles, the letters of Paul, Hebrews and Revelation why does it matter what those say? Are they true?
|
|
Huxley
Sophomore
@huxley
Posts: 258
Likes: 86
|
Post by Huxley on Oct 24, 2019 15:10:39 GMT
Have you ever seen a germ or an atom? How do you know they exist?
|
|
|
Post by ArArArchStanton on Oct 24, 2019 16:48:29 GMT
Have you ever seen a germ or an atom? How do you know they exist? because there is overwhelming evidence for them. Please go talk to a biologist.
|
|
|
Post by gadreel on Oct 24, 2019 17:06:36 GMT
It purely depends on what the definition of religion is. My point was it can't be quantified therefore there can be no scientifically provable link. And my point is that professionals in the relevant fields disagree with you.
|
|
|
Post by goz on Oct 24, 2019 20:44:40 GMT
It purely depends on what the definition of religion is. My point was it can't be quantified therefore there can be no scientifically provable link. And my point is that professionals in the relevant fields disagree with you. What relevant fields and what is their definition of 'religion'? I have asked you this maybe five times now and no response. DNA study is a science. Attributing whatever these 'expert' in whatever field they are is not and cannot be until and if they can define what religion is so that it can be tested in the scientific milieu... ie DNA attribution.
|
|
|
Post by goz on Oct 24, 2019 20:47:17 GMT
People unlike animals have a soul/spirit which from birth is tuned into God. Some more than others. It's natural to seek God and the things of God. It's built into our DNA. No it is not.
|
|
|
Post by gadreel on Oct 24, 2019 21:42:39 GMT
And my point is that professionals in the relevant fields disagree with you. What relevant fields and what is their definition of 'religion'? I have asked you this maybe five times now and no response. DNA study is a science. Attributing whatever these 'expert' in whatever field they are is not and cannot be until and if they can define what religion is so that it can be tested in the scientific milieu... ie DNA attribution. Read what I posted. The simple FACT is that there has been presented plenty of evidence to you that professionals in a number of fields disagree with your statement, a number of the links I provided also talk about the definition of religion that they used. Maybe if you bothered to read the things that were posted you may have a better idea of what is being said. But let me be clear. The FACT that PROFESSIONALS in various related fields disagree with you is ample PROOF that your blanket statement is not one that is held by relevant academics and scientists, and no amount of disagreement on your part will change that. Unless you are able to add something new to this discussion I am sorry but I dont see much value in this.
|
|
|
Post by goz on Oct 24, 2019 22:41:26 GMT
What relevant fields and what is their definition of 'religion'? I have asked you this maybe five times now and no response. DNA study is a science. Attributing whatever these 'expert' in whatever field they are is not and cannot be until and if they can define what religion is so that it can be tested in the scientific milieu... ie DNA attribution. Read what I posted. The simple FACT is that there has been presented plenty of evidence to you that professionals in a number of fields disagree with your statement, a number of the links I provided also talk about the definition of religion that they used. Maybe if you bothered to read the things that were posted you may have a better idea of what is being said. But let me be clear. The FACT that PROFESSIONALS in various related fields disagree with you is ample PROOF that your blanket statement is not one that is held by relevant academics and scientists, and no amount of disagreement on your part will change that. Unless you are able to add something new to this discussion I am sorry but I dont see much value in this. 'related' fields being of the essence... NOT DNA science which is the arbiter of what is inherited and what is not.
|
|
|
Post by gadreel on Oct 24, 2019 22:47:35 GMT
Read what I posted. The simple FACT is that there has been presented plenty of evidence to you that professionals in a number of fields disagree with your statement, a number of the links I provided also talk about the definition of religion that they used. Maybe if you bothered to read the things that were posted you may have a better idea of what is being said. But let me be clear. The FACT that PROFESSIONALS in various related fields disagree with you is ample PROOF that your blanket statement is not one that is held by relevant academics and scientists, and no amount of disagreement on your part will change that. Unless you are able to add something new to this discussion I am sorry but I dont see much value in this. 'related' fields being of the essence... NOT DNA science which is the arbiter of what is inherited and what is not. I have comprehensively PROVEN your stance is not held by the qualified professionals, you clearly have not read the things I posted. Please dont reply unless you can stop being a broken and incorrect record.
|
|
|
Post by goz on Oct 24, 2019 23:33:01 GMT
'related' fields being of the essence... NOT DNA science which is the arbiter of what is inherited and what is not. I have comprehensively PROVEN your stance is not held by the qualified professionals, you clearly have not read the things I posted. Please dont reply unless you can stop being a broken and incorrect record. You have proven nothing that related to DNA evidence of whatever 'religion' is defined as. It would help if you answered my question about what is religion defined as, so it can be compared to DNA components, which MUST appear in the links that you posted. It is not for me to hunt. It is your claim that DNA had been linked to 'religion. WTF is religion, in scientific terms?
|
|