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Post by Agent of Chaos on Mar 1, 2017 2:02:29 GMT
If the MCU had the X-Men, they'd be more about the internal conflicts within the team and them struggling with stuff like whether or not Xavier's way (hiding) is really doing any good. Instead of it being about Xavier and Magneto's differences, with Magneto eating up screentime, it would be more about the X-Men conflicting with themselves. I think that would work out pretty well. Except that was already explored with First Class. You know, with Xavier trying to keep Mystique hidden and that is what drives her into Magneto's arms? That was also touched upon in Days of Future Past. I strongly doubt a rehashing story lines from films that came out less than 10 years ago would be a good idea.
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Post by kuatorises on Mar 1, 2017 14:09:01 GMT
Because events that happened in each franchise's universe clearly did not happen in the other. Magneto tried to wipe humanity at least twice before the first MCU movie (Iron Man) even came out. They just don't sync up. Nitpick: Magneto tried to wipe out technology in Apocalypse, not humanity. Apocalypse wanted them alive for him to rule. I'm not talking about Apocalypse. I haven't even seen the movie yet to be honest. I mean X1 when he tried to turn all of the politicians and world leaders into mutants, X2 when he tried to use Xavier (via Stryker's Cerebro) to kill all humans, and he wasn't exactly up any good X3 either.
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Post by ThatGuy on Mar 1, 2017 15:34:14 GMT
If the MCU had the X-Men, they'd be more about the internal conflicts within the team and them struggling with stuff like whether or not Xavier's way (hiding) is really doing any good. Instead of it being about Xavier and Magneto's differences, with Magneto eating up screentime, it would be more about the X-Men conflicting with themselves. I think that would work out pretty well. Except that was already explored with First Class. You know, with Xavier trying to keep Mystique hidden and that is what drives her into Magneto's arms? That was also touched upon in Days of Future Past. I strongly doubt a rehashing story lines from films that came out less than 10 years ago would be a good idea. I think Sam means internal conflict within the X-men. First Class's internal conflict is more like if Loki and Nebula hung out with the Avengers and they argued with them the entire time.
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Post by ThatGuy on Mar 1, 2017 15:50:53 GMT
Well, the people who say those things do have a point, and so do you. There is no mention or even hint of superpower-inducing genetic mutations 14 movies into the MCU and they would have to play their cards exactly right to avoid making it look like a retcon. They could also wait to introduce Mutants after the whole Thanos ordeal is done. They could use the Infinity Stones as the catalyst for causing Mutations to become more common enough as to be more detectable for the first time. Then yes, the rest of what you said would definitely apply about split opinions or The Avengers and other superheroes applies. There are on Agents of SHIELD, kinda. At the moment they are finding people born to have powers (Inhumans) and they are also finding out there are other ways to get powers (Ghost Rider). Who's to say that they can't come across someone that has powers, but doesn't have the marker for the Inhuman gene? Some person that doesn't need terrigenesis. Marvel opened the door for mutants being discovered by having a couple scientist that study people with powers within SHIELD as main characters in a tv series. All they'd have to do is run a half season or more of the discovery of mutants before the X-men movie would premiere. Someone said that Xavier could be making people forget about mutants. Imagine the X-men fighting someone(s) and MIBing everyone there with telepathy. Mutants could already be there, it's just they are hiding under the cover of Inhumans and nobody knowing about the X-gene to detect them.
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Post by Agent of Chaos on Mar 1, 2017 16:04:57 GMT
Well, the people who say those things do have a point, and so do you. There is no mention or even hint of superpower-inducing genetic mutations 14 movies into the MCU and they would have to play their cards exactly right to avoid making it look like a retcon. They could also wait to introduce Mutants after the whole Thanos ordeal is done. They could use the Infinity Stones as the catalyst for causing Mutations to become more common enough as to be more detectable for the first time. Then yes, the rest of what you said would definitely apply about split opinions or The Avengers and other superheroes applies. There are on Agents of SHIELD, kinda. At the moment they are finding people born to have powers (Inhumans) and they are also finding out there are other ways to get powers (Ghost Rider). Who's to say that they can't come across someone that has powers, but doesn't have the marker for the Inhuman gene? Some person that doesn't need terrigenesis. Marvel opened the door for mutants being discovered by having a couple scientist that study people with powers within SHIELD as main characters in a tv series. All they'd have to do is run a half season or more of the discovery of mutants before the X-men movie would premiere. Someone said that Xavier could be making people forget about mutants. Imagine the X-men fighting someone(s) and MIBing everyone there with telepathy. Mutants could already be there, it's just they are hiding under the cover of Inhumans and nobody knowing about the X-gene to detect them. The whole Xavier thing was a bit unbelievable. So he would make people forget about mutants but not inhumans, Hulks, etc who are discriminated against...because?
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Post by ThatGuy on Mar 1, 2017 16:06:02 GMT
And when you have that, you avoid the problem of having to explain why the public likes the Avengers but hates even the good mutants (like the X-Men). If you can't get why they hate the X-men and don't hate the Avengers as much then there is no hope... Let me explain it...it's about survival as a species. Normal people think that Mutants are taking over and there will be no normal people left. It's right there in your face every time you watch an X-men movie. But what does that have to do with Avengers you ask? It's simple. The Avengers are mostly known enhanced humans. The only hypocritical thing about that is that mutates (enhanced humans) have a higher chance of giving birth to a mutant than a normal human.
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Post by Agent of Chaos on Mar 1, 2017 16:17:28 GMT
And when you have that, you avoid the problem of having to explain why the public likes the Avengers but hates even the good mutants (like the X-Men). If you can't get why they hate the X-men and don't hate the Avengers as much then there is no hope... Let me explain it...it's about survival as a species. Normal people think that Mutants are taking over and there will be no normal people left. It's right there in your face every time you watch an X-men movie. But what does that have to do with Avengers you ask? It's simple. The Avengers are mostly known enhanced humans. The only hypocritical thing about that is that mutates (enhanced humans) have a higher chance of giving birth to a mutant than a normal human. Actually, people are shown to be afraid of Wanda and The Hulk. In the X-Men movies people are afraid of Mutants because of what they can do rather than the thought of everyone eventually having superpowers.
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Post by ThatGuy on Mar 1, 2017 16:20:30 GMT
The whole Xavier thing was a bit unbelievable. So he would make people forget about mutants but not inhumans, Hulks, etc who are discriminated against...because? Because they aren't mutants. You do know that even with all their benevolence, Xavier and crew are selfish when it comes to mutants. Hell, I think Xavier would use Inhumans and Hulk to sell the lie. Battle in Harlem between Juggernaut and Colossus, Xavier creates a memory so good that even Banner thinks he was there. They are there to keep mutants safe. Also, they aren't going out after seeing something on tv. They have Cerebro to monitor mutants. They go out, Jean/Xavier wipes/changes memories and Storm EMPs devices close by that could film them. The thing that happens for the movie is there is an event so big that they can't do anything about it and people all over find out about mutants.
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Post by ThatGuy on Mar 1, 2017 16:25:39 GMT
Actually, people are shown to be afraid of Wanda and The Hulk. In the X-Men movies people are afraid of Mutants because of what they can do rather than the thought of everyone eventually having superpowers. Of course they are afraid of the Hulk. He's a literal monster. And they weren't afraid of Wanda (in the movies) until she mistakenly blew up the building. In the comics, Wanda is (was) a mutant. Them being afraid of what mutants can do is what they are using to round them up. If people were afraid of a mutant's powers there would Xavier's School type places sponsored by the government all over the place. Mutants would pretty much get drafted into law enforcement and the military and other government work.
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Post by Agent of Chaos on Mar 1, 2017 16:44:16 GMT
The whole Xavier thing was a bit unbelievable. So he would make people forget about mutants but not inhumans, Hulks, etc who are discriminated against...because? Because they aren't mutants. You do know that even with all their benevolence, Xavier and crew are selfish when it comes to mutants. Hell, I think Xavier would use Inhumans and Hulk to sell the lie. Battle in Harlem between Juggernaut and Colossus, Xavier creates a memory so good that even Banner thinks he was there. They are there to keep mutants safe. Also, they aren't going out after seeing something on tv. They have Cerebro to monitor mutants. They go out, Jean/Xavier wipes/changes memories and Storm EMPs devices close by that could film them. The thing that happens for the movie is there is an event so big that they can't do anything about it and people all over find out about mutants. Being selfish when it comes to Mutants sounds more like Magneto's thing. Xavier when written well is suppose to be about equality. The battle in Harlem was recorded and showed in Civil War.
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Post by Skaathar on Mar 1, 2017 16:47:52 GMT
No, Xavier is the head of the school/organization, Cyclops is the leader... or at least he's supposed to be. Cyclops' leadership role is what Mystique is currently filling. Actually, Xavier is referred as the leader of the X-Men in the original run of the comics and early Claremont run. Scott became co-leader by age of 20 in comics a couple of years after the team was formed. Why do you think Scott and Ororo had a dual over leadership after Xavier retired? Meh, pretty sure you can find anything in the comic world if you're willing to look hard enough. Majority of movie-going audience won't be familiar with such obscure variations of the usual X-men setup... which is that Xavier is head of the school and Cyclops is the leader. Mystique was never a leader of the X-men nor a danger room instructor. My point was that if Fox has messed up their roles and timelines so much already then it's really not much different from the MCU changing the origin and timeline of the mutants to fit in with their universe.
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Post by Agent of Chaos on Mar 1, 2017 16:55:26 GMT
Actually, people are shown to be afraid of Wanda and The Hulk. In the X-Men movies people are afraid of Mutants because of what they can do rather than the thought of everyone eventually having superpowers. Of course they are afraid of the Hulk. He's a literal monster. And they weren't afraid of Wanda (in the movies) until she mistakenly blew up the building. In the comics, Wanda is (was) a mutant. Them being afraid of what mutants can do is what they are using to round them up. If people were afraid of a mutant's powers there would Xavier's School type places sponsored by the government all over the place. Mutants would pretty much get drafted into law enforcement and the military and other government work. People are afraid of Hulk because of the power he holds, similar to Mutants. I mean they are afraid of them possibly abusing their powers. Like Kitty walking into a bank vault to steal money as Senator Kelly says in X1. A boy using his power to make his mother kill herself like in X2. Or like Mystique disguising herself as the president and ording a nuclear strike, which Trask says in DOFP.
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Post by Agent of Chaos on Mar 1, 2017 17:02:42 GMT
Oh, and in The Avengers it's shown that people are kinda afraid of Thor too.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2017 17:18:25 GMT
And when you have that, you avoid the problem of having to explain why the public likes the Avengers but hates even the good mutants (like the X-Men). If you can't get why they hate the X-men and don't hate the Avengers as much then there is no hope... Let me explain it...it's about survival as a species. Normal people think that Mutants are taking over and there will be no normal people left. It's right there in your face every time you watch an X-men movie. But what does that have to do with Avengers you ask? It's simple. The Avengers are mostly known enhanced humans. The only hypocritical thing about that is that mutates (enhanced humans) have a higher chance of giving birth to a mutant than a normal human. That only works conceptually. Once you get down to it, your average person wouldn't be able to tell the difference between a heroic mutant and your standard superhero. So they'd only be hating a "concept" instead of hating ACTUAL mutants. Most people wouldn't be able to differentiate. So it's dumb. Plus, the X-Men universe is big enough where we don't NEED them to mix and match with the other Marvel characters. Not sure why you MCU fans HATE the concept of diversity (in filmmaking). Disney most certainly will not give us movies like Deadpool and Logan.
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Post by ThatGuy on Mar 1, 2017 17:25:27 GMT
People are afraid of Hulk because of the power he holds, similar to Mutants. I mean they are afraid of them possibly abusing their powers. Like Kitty walking into a bank vault to steal money as Senator Kelly says in X1. A boy using his power to make his mother kill herself like in X2. Or like Mystique disguising herself as the president and ording a nuclear strike, which Trask says in DOFP. Again, those are excuses the characters in the movies are using to get a point across. Kelly wants to get mutants registered so he'll use something that'd make people afraid (like easy home invasion). Trask wants to get his robots built so he'll go to that extreme and scare some government guys into thinking someone will trick them into launching nukes. What they are basically doing is the same as politicians now saying that all Muslims will come for you to scare everyone. And Stryker... he played that victim card. This was the same guy experimenting on mutants (now we know with Trask). Of course he'd hate his parents knowing that his father was experimenting on mutants.
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Post by ThatGuy on Mar 1, 2017 17:34:49 GMT
That only works conceptually. Once you get down to it, your average person wouldn't be able to tell the difference between a heroic mutant and your standard superhero. So they'd only be hating a "concept" instead of hating ACTUAL mutants. Most people wouldn't be able to differentiate. So it's dumb. Plus, the X-Men universe is big enough where we don't NEED them to mix and match with the other Marvel characters. Not sure why you MCU fans HATE the concept of diversity (in filmmaking). Disney most certainly will not give us movies like Deadpool and Logan. Not when the public knows who the nonmutant heroes are. Remember this is Avengers and X-men. The public knows that the X-men are mutants and they know that most of the Avengers are mutates. Hell, even the twins are now mutates. And how do you not get by now that this is not about putting the X-men into the MCU, but if they would be able to be introduced into it. That answer is yes. Well, Fox didn't give us Deadpool. We pretty much took it from them. They weren't going to make it and it wouldn't have been rated R if they were in charge of it. So be glad that Fox was forced into making Deadpool because we wouldn't have gotten Logan as is either. And you do know that Disney has movie studios that make R rated movies right? You guys keep saying Disney like that means anything. Disney doesn't make all squeaky clean kids movies. You see animated movie and think cartoons are for kids. One of those "kids" animated movies has more mature themes than all the X-men movies combined.
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Post by ThatGuy on Mar 1, 2017 17:35:47 GMT
Oh, and in The Avengers it's shown that people are kinda afraid of Thor too. You mean the 1st Avengers movie where no one knew who any of them were?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2017 17:47:26 GMT
That only works conceptually. Once you get down to it, your average person wouldn't be able to tell the difference between a heroic mutant and your standard superhero. So they'd only be hating a "concept" instead of hating ACTUAL mutants. Most people wouldn't be able to differentiate. So it's dumb. Plus, the X-Men universe is big enough where we don't NEED them to mix and match with the other Marvel characters. Not sure why you MCU fans HATE the concept of diversity (in filmmaking). Disney most certainly will not give us movies like Deadpool and Logan. Not when the public knows who the nonmutant heroes are. Remember this is Avengers and X-men. The public knows that the X-men are mutants and they know that most of the Avengers are mutates. Hell, even the twins are now mutates. And how do you not get by now that this is not about putting the X-men into the MCU, but if they would be able to be introduced into it. That answer is yes. Well, Fox didn't give us Deadpool. We pretty much took it from them. They weren't going to make it and it wouldn't have been rated R if they were in charge of it. So be glad that Fox was forced into making Deadpool because we wouldn't have gotten Logan as is either. And you do know that Disney has movie studios that make R rated movies right? You guys keep saying Disney like that means anything. Disney doesn't make all squeaky clean kids movies. You see animated movie and think cartoons are for kids. One of those "kids" animated movies has more mature themes than all the X-men movies combined. I'm not arguing that it CAN'T be done. Just that it shouldn't be done. Marvel doesn't have the bandwidth, and they won't take the chances that Fox will take.
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Post by Agent of Chaos on Mar 1, 2017 17:53:24 GMT
Oh, and in The Avengers it's shown that people are kinda afraid of Thor too. You mean the 1st Avengers movie where no one knew who any of them were? I'm about talking about SHEILD making weapons in response to the events of Thor.
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Post by ThatGuy on Mar 1, 2017 18:32:18 GMT
I'm not arguing that it CAN'T be done. Just that it shouldn't be done. Marvel doesn't have the bandwidth, and they won't take the chances that Fox will take. Actually, Marvel does. It's getting to the point they can just add Thor into an Ant-Man movie instead of making a Thor and an Ant-Man movie. They are putting out 3 movies a year. Before Fox realized they were falling behind with these comic book movies, they were putting out X-men movies (including X-men Origins) every 3 years. Now they are trying to put out 1 every year or so (sometimes 2 in a years time). Now think about when they bring out individually titles movies. The Captain America movies didn't come out every year. Sure he was in the 2 Avengers movies, but those aren't Captain America movies. Who's not to say that they can't bring out an X-men movie every 3 years and have them appear in other character's movies? And Fox aren't taking any chances. They are followers. All their movies you can see influence from other movies. Even Logan is following from what Deadpool did and Deadpool was a "Here's a dollar get away from me, kid" movie. Fox didn't know what they were getting from Deadpool and they didn't care. Now that it's the highest grossing X-men film, they care a lot. Also, what chances did they take in the X-men movies? Killing off main characters? The same main characters they brought back? Since he is still dead, doesn't that mean that the MCU took a bigger risk with Quicksilver?
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