OT: Joker

Hugely overrated. A cynical rip-off of two far superior films. It's uneven, juvenile and (the worst thing you can level at a film like this) dull. It's kinda plotless and tonally it's all over the gaff. And it never earns its payoff i.e. a Joker origin story. So, What? He gets beaten up a couple of times and has a shitty mother? That's it? That's what creates the Joker. FFS! There'd be a billion Joker's knocking about if that was all it takes.

I love River Phoenix but even he annoyed me in it. Does he throw himself into the role? Indeed he does but it's such a one note performance as there is no real characterization in the film. A better director, with a better script, would have gotten far more nuance from him. Just look at his performances in The Master and, more relevant to this discussion, 2017's We Were Never Really Here. Shit, this is pantomime compared to those. It's depiction of mental illness is ill informed also, and don't get me started on the nonsense bait and switch relationship with the cute neighbour. Christ! Overall, to me, it seems a film that is ill conceived by some people ill equipped to execute it.

I was really willing it to be good, especially considering how many people wanted it to fail from the moment it was announced, but ended up so disappointed by it. A film made by people who think they are being deep and clever but really just a bit of a damp squib.

Its a throwback movie. Im glad a lot of people saw it and grossed over a billion.

Oh man, Hoffman and Phoenix in the Master.  Talk about A+ performances.  The interrogation scene is among the most well-acted scenes I've ever witnessed.  Awesome stuff.  

I saw it a couple of weeks ago on Blu-Ray...


I usually don't enjoy "Super-Criminal" movies, since I prefer movies about heroes and not the villains... In addition, since this was marketed as an origin story for Batman's nemesis, the Joker, I also feared that the story would take on a childish comic book tone to it as well...

And so, I wasn't sure what to expect with this film, and I had low expectations for it...


I'm sure that we can all reasonably agree, that the Joker probably wasn't always so insane and dangerous... If he had been that way as a young child, he would have been locked up in an institution for life, and there would not have been anything more to his story...

And so, I did at least hope, that this particular Joker's origin story would involve some "event" in his young adult years that changed him...


Thankfully, This movie does explore a change in him from the start of the film to the end... and I was pleasantly surprised that the story was told as more of a "Thriller" with a very down-to-earth tone...

This is definitely a film that is not aimed at the kiddies, but it is intended for more mature adults, who are not a fan of comic books and superhero films.


In addition, I couldn't help but be impressed with Joaquin Phoenix's interpretation of what Joker's life was like, before he became Batman's nemesis... I don't think anyone else could have portrayed that character as well.


In the end, I found that I had enjoyed the film, and that I am glad that I didn't let my doubts keep me from seeing this very good film...

7/10.


And it's also, my opinion, that...

This film could easily be interpreted as a possible PREQUEL film to both Christopher Nolan's films: "Batman Begins" (2005) & "The Dark Knight" (2008)...

"Joker" (2019)... "Batman Begins" (2005)... "The Dark Knight" (2008)... "The Dark Knight Rises" (2012)...

As a fan of the Christopher Nolan's films, that's how I choose to see it...

Just gonna say in response to people saying Joker and the Master are overrated: what the fuck kind of criticism is saying a movie is overrated? You not liking a movie as much as other people isn't a valid criticism.


But Joker is a great piece of cinema, and easily one of the greatest comic book character adaptations ever. I wouldn't say this was Phoenix's best performance of his career (that would go to The Master) but it was still fuckin excellent and definitely one of the top three from the last year.

I'm also puzzled that The Lighthouse got only 1 nomination.

Willem Dafoe really was excellent. He toed the line of drama, absurdity, rage, madness, etc. that that movie required in such a specific way. I also thought Lupita Nyongo in Us was really remarkable. Whatever anybody thinks of the movie, I don't think it's deniable that she was extraordinary gave two of the best performances of the year. But to me the best performance I saw, far and away, was Florence Pugh in Midsommar. I haven't seen Marriage Story yet though.

The thing in Joker that bothered me the most was the revelation of the girlfriend just being in his head. It would have been a great moment if she had just not really recognized him when he was sitting there and we pieced it together. That was almost a great moment but then that little montage ruined it. Plus, I think it would have reinforced the theme of ambiguity of perception, which is what the movie was really all about, rather than completely negating it in that moment.

The Thomas Wayne subplot is something I've gone back and forth on. On one hand I think it would have been more subversive had it not connected to Batman at all. If they never named the Wayne family, never told us this was Gotham city, never showed Bruce and Alfred, never showed Bruce in the alley. I think that would have set this apart as it's own thing that also could have some ties to the characters we think of. That might have gone further than the film ultimately did in terms of that same theme of interpretation and perception. If there were glancing, subtle references to where we were and if these were actually the characters we knew rather than making it directly clear and spoken it might have taken on a different meaning. On the other hand, the element with his mother is interesting. It seems at first that his mother is clearly delusional and that I took it at face value that Thomas Wayne was telling the truth and she was nuts. But.. that's one of the most intriguing elements, actually. She could have been telling the truth. It is possible. And if she is the madness that is in both Arthur could be in Bruce too... but forgetting that Batman connection, I still think the idea that we don't really know the answer to that is one of the keys to the movie.

I also liked the ending. I think there are a lot of ways to read it, and I think that's the point, really. Yes, that ambiguous epilogue is a bit too much Taxi Driver as well, but it could possibly reframe everything because he'd be an extremely unreliable narrator if you take the ending as him narrating part of or all of the story. Or not.

I'd agree it's a mixed bag. I think it looks great, there are great performances, especially the central performance of course, and I do think the script has some genuinely compelling intellectual ideas and questions. But the there are also miscues, like the song choice on the stairs, unsubtle moments that should have been less overt, and maybe some muddled sociopolitical messaging that doesn't necessarily land in the right way. Overall I'd still say it's an interesting and kinda daring film. I don't think this was an easy and obvious thing to do, and at the very least I appreciate the risk taking.

Of course, the narrative around the movie is completely ludicrous and the overreaction to it in both directions makes it difficult for a lot fo people to just watch and judge it as a movie. It's neither the greatest masterpiece of our time or a soulless brainless moral bankruptcy or a call to white supremacist violence.

It's a pretty good psychological drama with some excellent camera work and a possible career best performance from one of our best actors that maybe could have used another pass in the edit bay or a possibly a script polish.

I thought the Joker was the best film of a year with tons of great films. Phoenix was masterful. I guess to each their own.