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Post by masterofallgoons on Jan 28, 2020 16:03:13 GMT
Phoenix was fantastic, and the score was used perfectly, other than that there isn't much to the film. As others have pointed out, it lays on the homage sauce a little heavy at times and the 'reveal' of the obviously imaginary girlfriend was insulting to the audience. I'm befuddled as to the Oscar hype surrounding this film involving anyone other than Phoenix. I don't imagine it will win for anything other than lead actor and original score.
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Post by orlandogardner on Jan 28, 2020 17:31:35 GMT
Just gonna say in response to people saying Joker and the Master are overrated: what the fuck kind of criticism is saying a movie is overrated? You not liking a movie as much as other people isn't a valid criticism. But Joker is a great piece of cinema, and easily one of the greatest comic book character adaptations ever. I wouldn't say this was Phoenix's best performance of his career (that would go to The Master) but it was still fuckin excellent and definitely one of the top three from the last year. And you've just overrated it. Well done.
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Post by orlandogardner on Jan 28, 2020 17:33:31 GMT
Hugely overrated. A cynical rip-off of two far superior films. It's uneven, juvenile and (the worst thing you can level at a film like this) dull. It's kinda plotless and tonally it's all over the gaff. And it never earns its payoff i.e. a Joker origin story. So, What? He gets beaten up a couple of times and has a shitty mother? That's it? That's what creates the Joker. FFS! There'd be a billion Joker's knocking about if that was all it takes. I love River Phoenix but even he annoyed me in it. Does he throw himself into the role? Indeed he does but it's such a one note performance as there is no real characterization in the film. A better director, with a better script, would have gotten far more nuance from him. Just look at his performances in The Master and, more relevant to this discussion, 2017's We Were Never Really Here. Shit, this is pantomime compared to those. It's depiction of mental illness is ill informed also, and don't get me started on the nonsense bait and switch relationship with the cute neighbour. Christ! Overall, to me, it seems a film that is ill conceived by some people ill equipped to execute it. I was really willing it to be good, especially considering how many people wanted it to fail from the moment it was announced, but ended up so disappointed by it. A film made by people who think they are being deep and clever but really just a bit of a damp squib. Oh man, Hoffman and Phoenix in the Master. Talk about A+ performances. The interrogation scene is among the most well-acted scenes I've ever witnessed. Awesome stuff. Absolutely. I think Hoffman has possibly been better in other films but it's Phoenix's best performance. He's incredible in it.
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senan90
Junior Member
@senan90
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Post by senan90 on Jan 28, 2020 17:37:11 GMT
Just gonna say in response to people saying Joker and the Master are overrated: what the fuck kind of criticism is saying a movie is overrated? You not liking a movie as much as other people isn't a valid criticism. But Joker is a great piece of cinema, and easily one of the greatest comic book character adaptations ever. I wouldn't say this was Phoenix's best performance of his career (that would go to The Master) but it was still fuckin excellent and definitely one of the top three from the last year. Well, seeing how I'm the only one on this thread who said The Master is overrated, it would appear your anger about the subject is directed at me. So I'll respond with something more than that it was simply "overrated". It was incredibly dull, overwrought, and hideously slow. Trust me, I wanted to like it. I love both Phoenix and Hoffman as actors and it seemed like a subject matter that would really keep me engrossed. Scenes and even camera shots went on and on with nothing even remotely interesting happening. While I don't expect all main characters of a movie to be like Jimmy Stewart, I do expect to at least feel a little something for characters, and I felt absolutely nothing for either Hoffman's or Phoenix's. I didn't see it in the theater, I waited till I was house sitting for a friend who had a big screen and I rented it. The first time I watched it, I fell asleep cuz of boredom. Feeling bad, I gave it another watch and forced myself to stay awake. The first time was better because I fell asleep and probably had a more interesting dream. I hope that explains it better for you. Things do happen in the film. Those shots are interesting and reveal a lot about the characters of Freddy and Dodd. And boredom isn't valid criticism. Boring people lack imagination. So what you said doesn't anything about your critical skills.
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Post by orlandogardner on Jan 28, 2020 17:37:30 GMT
Phoenix was fantastic, and the score was used perfectly, other than that there isn't much to the film. As others have pointed out, it lays on the homage sauce a little heavy at times and the 'reveal' of the obviously imaginary girlfriend was insulting to the audience. I'm befuddled as to the Oscar hype surrounding this film involving anyone other than Phoenix. Absolutely agree. The cinematography, score and production design though were all excellent imo.
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OT: Joker
Jan 28, 2020 17:58:22 GMT
via mobile
Post by 尺ロㄈにモイ州凡几 on Jan 28, 2020 17:58:22 GMT
Just gonna say in response to people saying Joker and the Master are overrated: what the fuck kind of criticism is saying a movie is overrated? You not liking a movie as much as other people isn't a valid criticism. But Joker is a great piece of cinema, and easily one of the greatest comic book character adaptations ever. I wouldn't say this was Phoenix's best performance of his career (that would go to The Master) but it was still fuckin excellent and definitely one of the top three from the last year. And you've just overrated it. Well done. Actually, I didn’t. The movie is objectively a great film. You not liking it as much as others doesn’t make it a bad movie. Just like me saying I didn’t like 2001: a space odyssey as much as most people doesn’t make it a bad or overrated movie.
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Post by orlandogardner on Jan 28, 2020 18:14:37 GMT
And you've just overrated it. Well done. Actually, I didn’t. The movie is objectively a great film. You not liking it as much as others doesn’t make it a bad movie. Just like me saying I didn’t like 2001: a space odyssey as much as most people doesn’t make it a bad or overrated movie. Objectively a great film? Who says shit like that, and especially with this film, with a straight face. Get outa here.
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OT: Joker
Jan 28, 2020 18:29:40 GMT
via mobile
Post by 尺ロㄈにモイ州凡几 on Jan 28, 2020 18:29:40 GMT
Actually, I didn’t. The movie is objectively a great film. You not liking it as much as others doesn’t make it a bad movie. Just like me saying I didn’t like 2001: a space odyssey as much as most people doesn’t make it a bad or overrated movie. Objectively a great film? Who says shit like that, and especially with this film, with a straight face. Get outa here. You’re proving my point, my man.
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Post by orlandogardner on Jan 28, 2020 19:21:37 GMT
Objectively a great film? Who says shit like that, and especially with this film, with a straight face. Get outa here. You’re proving my point, my man. How so? Also, how can anyone claim that a film is objectively great? And then specifically a film as polarising (regarding its quality) as this one? To me that seems incredibly arrogant/conceited.
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Post by millar70 on Jan 28, 2020 19:43:16 GMT
Well, seeing how I'm the only one on this thread who said The Master is overrated, it would appear your anger about the subject is directed at me. So I'll respond with something more than that it was simply "overrated". It was incredibly dull, overwrought, and hideously slow. Trust me, I wanted to like it. I love both Phoenix and Hoffman as actors and it seemed like a subject matter that would really keep me engrossed. Scenes and even camera shots went on and on with nothing even remotely interesting happening. While I don't expect all main characters of a movie to be like Jimmy Stewart, I do expect to at least feel a little something for characters, and I felt absolutely nothing for either Hoffman's or Phoenix's. I didn't see it in the theater, I waited till I was house sitting for a friend who had a big screen and I rented it. The first time I watched it, I fell asleep cuz of boredom. Feeling bad, I gave it another watch and forced myself to stay awake. The first time was better because I fell asleep and probably had a more interesting dream. I hope that explains it better for you. Things do happen in the film. Those shots are interesting and reveal a lot about the characters of Freddy and Dodd. And boredom isn't valid criticism. Boring people lack imagination. So what you said doesn't anything about your critical skills. Who said I'm a critic? I'm a guy who enjoys watching movies. And honestly, how is saying you were bored watching a film NOT a criticism again? I saw The Master twice and I was disappointed. Sorry if that affects you, but what can I say? Of course, because I dared to say something bad about a movie you like, you say I'm a bore who lacks imagination. Please.....the jizz I wipe up with Kleenex after I beat off has more imagination than what I've seen from you in your various posts around here. And if I wanted to sound like a critic with a stick up my ass, I could critique your typing skills. Your last sentence reads "So what you said doesn't anything about your critical skills". What the fuck are you talking about?
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senan90
Junior Member
@senan90
Posts: 1,452
Likes: 546
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Post by senan90 on Jan 28, 2020 20:06:03 GMT
Things do happen in the film. Those shots are interesting and reveal a lot about the characters of Freddy and Dodd. And boredom isn't valid criticism. Boring people lack imagination. So what you said doesn't anything about your critical skills. Who said I'm a critic? I'm a guy who enjoys watching movies. And honestly, how is saying you were bored watching a film NOT a criticism again? I saw The Master twice and I was disappointed. Sorry if that affects you, but what can I say? Of course, because I dared to say something bad about a movie you like, you say I'm a bore who lacks imagination. Please.....the jizz I wipe up with Kleenex after I beat off has more imagination than what I've seen from you in your various posts around here. And if I wanted to sound like a critic with a stick up my ass, I could critique your typing skills. Your last sentence reads "So what you said doesn't anything about your critical skills". What the fuck are you talking about? You said it was boring. Boring isn't valid criticism. And yes, stick to masturbation. It's better than your shit posts about film analysis.
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Post by millar70 on Jan 28, 2020 20:53:17 GMT
Who said I'm a critic? I'm a guy who enjoys watching movies. And honestly, how is saying you were bored watching a film NOT a criticism again? I saw The Master twice and I was disappointed. Sorry if that affects you, but what can I say? Of course, because I dared to say something bad about a movie you like, you say I'm a bore who lacks imagination. Please.....the jizz I wipe up with Kleenex after I beat off has more imagination than what I've seen from you in your various posts around here. And if I wanted to sound like a critic with a stick up my ass, I could critique your typing skills. Your last sentence reads "So what you said doesn't anything about your critical skills". What the fuck are you talking about? You said it was boring. Boring isn't valid criticism. And yes, stick to masturbation. It's better than your shit posts about film analysis. Hey, at least you formed complete sentences this time. Good work, sweetheart!
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Post by 尺ロㄈにモイ州凡几 on Jan 28, 2020 21:04:48 GMT
You’re proving my point, my man. How so? Also, how can anyone claim that a film is objectively great? And then specifically a film as polarising (regarding its quality) as this one? To me that seems incredibly arrogant/conceited. There are qualities about a movie that go beyond one's own tastes. David Lynch movies aren't necessarily my thing, and I can't say I love any of Stanley Kubrick's movies save for Dr. Strangelove, but to not be able to recognize the individual merits of each of their films and understand why they're considered great speaks to not really understanding the art form itself. Being polarizing doesn't mean anything more than people walk away with wildly different feelings regarding the movie. Something about the movie just didn't connect with a person, or it really connected with someone else.
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Post by screamingtreefrogs on Jan 28, 2020 21:12:44 GMT
How so? Also, how can anyone claim that a film is objectively great? And then specifically a film as polarising (regarding its quality) as this one? To me that seems incredibly arrogant/conceited. There are qualities about a movie that go beyond one's own tastes. David Lynch movies aren't necessarily my thing, and I can't say I love any of Stanley Kubrick's movies save for Dr. Strangelove, but to not be able to recognize the individual merits of each of their films and understand why they're considered great speaks to not really understanding the art form itself. Being polarizing doesn't mean anything more than people walk away with wildly different feelings regarding the movie. Something about the movie just didn't connect with a person, or it really connected with someone. Can you (or anybody here) please explain Mulholland Drive to me (getting ready for at least one post stating a lot of the film is left up to interpretation by the viewer and that is the genius of Lynch )
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Post by 尺ロㄈにモイ州凡几 on Jan 28, 2020 21:18:37 GMT
Who said I'm a critic? I'm a guy who enjoys watching movies. And honestly, how is saying you were bored watching a film NOT a criticism again? I saw The Master twice and I was disappointed. Sorry if that affects you, but what can I say? Of course, because I dared to say something bad about a movie you like, you say I'm a bore who lacks imagination. Please.....the jizz I wipe up with Kleenex after I beat off has more imagination than what I've seen from you in your various posts around here. And if I wanted to sound like a critic with a stick up my ass, I could critique your typing skills. Your last sentence reads "So what you said doesn't anything about your critical skills". What the fuck are you talking about? You said it was boring. Boring isn't valid criticism. And yes, stick to masturbation. It's better than your shit posts about film analysis. I guess I would sort of agree with you on this one. Saying a movie isn't interesting or it's boring is really more about one's personal tastes and what they're able to glean from what's occurring onscreen. It's not really an issue with the movie, but an "issue" with the person. Not everyone finds the same things interesting and not everyone understands what they're seeing on the screen or why they're seeing it.
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Post by 尺ロㄈにモイ州凡几 on Jan 28, 2020 21:23:38 GMT
There are qualities about a movie that go beyond one's own tastes. David Lynch movies aren't necessarily my thing, and I can't say I love any of Stanley Kubrick's movies save for Dr. Strangelove, but to not be able to recognize the individual merits of each of their films and understand why they're considered great speaks to not really understanding the art form itself. Being polarizing doesn't mean anything more than people walk away with wildly different feelings regarding the movie. Something about the movie just didn't connect with a person, or it really connected with someone. Can you (or anybody here) please explain Mulholland Drive to me (getting ready for at least one post stating a lot of the film is left up to interpretation by the viewer and that is the genius of Lynch ) Tbh, I haven't seen that one yet.
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Post by screamingtreefrogs on Jan 28, 2020 21:26:54 GMT
Can you (or anybody here) please explain Mulholland Drive to me (getting ready for at least one post stating a lot of the film is left up to interpretation by the viewer and that is the genius of Lynch )Tbh, I haven't seen that one yet. You didn't miss much Twin Peaks: Fire Walk With Me on the other hand is an underrated gem if you're a fan of the TV show
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OT: Joker
Jan 28, 2020 21:34:44 GMT
via mobile
Post by millar70 on Jan 28, 2020 21:34:44 GMT
There are qualities about a movie that go beyond one's own tastes. David Lynch movies aren't necessarily my thing, and I can't say I love any of Stanley Kubrick's movies save for Dr. Strangelove, but to not be able to recognize the individual merits of each of their films and understand why they're considered great speaks to not really understanding the art form itself. Being polarizing doesn't mean anything more than people walk away with wildly different feelings regarding the movie. Something about the movie just didn't connect with a person, or it really connected with someone. Can you (or anybody here) please explain Mulholland Drive to me (getting ready for at least one post stating a lot of the film is left up to interpretation by the viewer and that is the genius of Lynch ) Or get ready for some blowhard telling you that the reason some folks don't like a movie is because they are not bright enough to understand what is happening. You see, for some dolts, there are no bad movies, there are just stupid moviegoers. 😴😴😴
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Post by 尺ロㄈにモイ州凡几 on Jan 28, 2020 21:40:02 GMT
Can you (or anybody here) please explain Mulholland Drive to me (getting ready for at least one post stating a lot of the film is left up to interpretation by the viewer and that is the genius of Lynch )Or get ready for some blowhard telling you that the reason some folks don't like a movie is because they are not bright enough to understand what is happening. You see, for some dolts, there are no bad movies, there are just stupid moviegoers. 😴😴😴 Well, to be fair, generally it is someone not getting the movie and not the movie being bad. That's especially the case with movies that are deliberately vague and/or subtle in their messages and themes.
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Post by screamingtreefrogs on Jan 28, 2020 21:44:09 GMT
Can you (or anybody here) please explain Mulholland Drive to me (getting ready for at least one post stating a lot of the film is left up to interpretation by the viewer and that is the genius of Lynch )Or get ready for some blowhard telling you that the reason some folks don't like a movie is because they are not bright enough to understand what is happening. You see, for some dolts, there are no bad movies, there are just stupid moviegoers. 😴😴😴 I had a million people on the old IMDB tell me I'm not bright enough to understand what the hell was going on with Mulholland Drive I think Lynch has pulled the eyes over everybody and pretty much makes a convoluted mess (see season 3 of Twin Peaks) of everything and wings it as he goes - and his fanboys state - 'You simply don't understand the genius of Lynch!' - as he's laughing all the way to the bank muttering 'Suckers!' under his breath I picked it up for $4.99 and decided to give it a watch - one of only 3 movies I threw into the dumpster - the others being Napolean Dynamite and a Japanese Monster flick entitled The Host- hey the DVD cover art looked intriguing - it stated 'the next JAWS'
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