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Post by SciFive on Aug 9, 2017 19:42:07 GMT
Oh, this isn't a problem. Over the course of years, my molecules get renewed or whatever. It doesn't happen all at once in the blink of an eye, though. My concern is self-awareness (stream of consciousness) that occurs while individual molecules are renewed over a span of years and years. It's the stream of consciousness that I wouldn't want to lose. Don't you lose that every night when you sleep? No. Our stream of consciousness (the wakeful part) needs to rest.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2017 20:05:57 GMT
Don't you lose that every night when you sleep? No. Our stream of consciousness (the wakeful part) needs to rest. But you cease to be conscious when it rests.
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Post by SciFive on Aug 9, 2017 21:00:43 GMT
No. Our stream of consciousness (the wakeful part) needs to rest. But you cease to be conscious when it rests. Yes, but I don't have to worry about someone sneaking into my bedroom to replace all my molecules with new ones while I sleep. Stream of consciousness is over a lifetime (from earliest memories to the thoughts we're capable of having by the time we part this world). It's self-awareness.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2017 21:13:42 GMT
But you cease to be conscious when it rests. Yes, but I don't have to worry about someone sneaking into my bedroom to replace all my molecules with new ones while I sleep. Okay, now I am confused. A few posts ago you said it doesn't matter if your molecules are replaced, so long as you have a continuous stream of consciousness. Now you're saying that it doesn't matter if you don't have a continuous stream of consciousness, so long as your molecules aren't replaced. These two things appear to me to be contradictory. Yes, I know what stream of consciousness is. But the point I made is that you don't actually have stream of consciousness. What you have is periods of consciousness, interspersed with periods in which consciousness is absent. Seems to me that either you accept that it is okay for your consciousness to cease existing and then begin existing again... or you believe that you die every night and a new but identical copy of you comes into existence in the morning.
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Post by SciFive on Aug 9, 2017 21:16:30 GMT
@graham
I didn't realize that things like self-awareness and lifelong stream of consciousness (which does not mean being awake every moment of your life) is rocket science.
No wonder it's so difficult to understand.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2017 23:43:19 GMT
@graham I didn't realize that things like self-awareness and lifelong stream of consciousness (which does not mean being awake every moment of your life) is rocket science. No wonder it's so difficult to understand. I'm sorry, I didn't realise you found it difficult to understand. If you have specific questions, I'll try to explain.
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Post by SciFive on Aug 10, 2017 0:04:29 GMT
@graham I didn't realize that things like self-awareness and lifelong stream of consciousness (which does not mean being awake every moment of your life) is rocket science. No wonder it's so difficult [for you and some others] to understand. I'm sorry, I didn't realise you found it difficult to understand. If you have specific questions, I'll try to explain. Ha ha. I meant that it's difficult for you and some others to understand, of course. Self-awareness is rocket science and there is no point in trying to explain it to you or to anyone else who doesn't understand the concept.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2017 0:06:41 GMT
I'm sorry, I didn't realise you found it difficult to understand. If you have specific questions, I'll try to explain. Ha ha. I meant that it's difficult for you and some others to understand, of course. Oh, okay. I'm sorry, I misunderstood. I do understand the concept. That's how I know that it ceases when you sleep. Arguably, you have a form of consciousness going on whilst you dream, of course. But whilst everybody dreams every night, only a relatively short portion of your sleep is taken up with dreams. So no, you do not have a continuous stream of consciousness and never have had.
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Post by SciFive on Aug 10, 2017 0:12:04 GMT
Ha ha. I meant that it's difficult for you and some others to understand, of course. Oh, okay. I'm sorry, I misunderstood. I do understand the concept. That's how I know that it ceases when you sleep. Arguably, you have a form of consciousness going on whilst you dream, of course. But whilst everybody dreams every night, only a relatively short portion of your sleep is taken up with dreams. So no, you do not have a continuous stream of consciousness and never have had. Self-awareness doesn't cease during sleep. The subconscious (dreams) are present. We usually dream about ourselves in some situation. My stream of consciousness started at my birth and it will continue for the rest of my life, actually. If I lose consciousness from time to time, it doesn't stop the stream. It doesn't make me a new person when my consciousness resumes.
Steam of consciousness is about self-awareness (the "self" that constitutes our identities as "aware" people).
Even if you have amnesia, the stream is still going unless the case is so severe that you never recover from it and start over.
Otherwise, the stream of consciousness is still intact.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2017 0:17:23 GMT
Oh, okay. I'm sorry, I misunderstood. I do understand the concept. That's how I know that it ceases when you sleep. Arguably, you have a form of consciousness going on whilst you dream, of course. But whilst everybody dreams every night, only a relatively short portion of your sleep is taken up with dreams. So no, you do not have a continuous stream of consciousness and never have had. Self-awareness doesn't cease during sleep. The subconscious (dreams) are present. We usually dream about ourselves in some situation. Dude, did you even read what I just posted? Yes, you dream. But you only dream for some of the time you are asleep. Then by this argument, transporting you wouldn't stop the stream either. It's just as valid to claim that the unconsciousness of a transporter process doesn't count, just as the unconsciousness of a dreamless sleep doesn't.
You are NOT self aware whilst you are asleep. [/quote]
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Post by SciFive on Aug 10, 2017 0:25:49 GMT
@graham
Have you ever heard of "micro dreams"? It's also called Hypnagogia.
Look it up. It means that you can have lucid dreams when you just nod off to sleep for a second or two while sitting up.
People can have dreams in the split second while their heads nod down in very brief sleep.
The main thing is that a person doesn't stop being himself or herself while sleeping. The self-awareness is still there even if your dream is in the form of a movie. You're still watching it.
The subconscious is at work during this time, too. It's part of your "self". There are cases of amnesia (identity loss) that can happen while a person is asleep after a trauma. The subconscious sets the stage for the person to wake up without an autobiographical memory.
Sleeping doesn't end self-awareness. It's just a rest.
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Post by DarkManX on Aug 11, 2017 3:38:51 GMT
I would, but only the latest model Voyager transporters where they have everything pounded out. I wouldn't want to step into a TOS transporter and get transporter psychosis.
What about a Stargate or the gateway's from the TNG episode Contagion? No disassembling/reassembling/chance for horror style duplication. Would anyone step into one of those?
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