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Post by Skaathar on Oct 23, 2017 17:10:45 GMT
All of this comparisons between MCU and DC villains, but when you think about it, they're actually very similar. Considering that the DCEU is fairly new, I decided to include all DC movies (live action) for this example. Like I said, they're actually very similar.
Both studios only have 1 flagship villain each: Joker and Loki. They're the only villains who get instant recognition from even just the casual moviegoer.
Then they'll both have well-acted, well fleshed out villains but that don't have the same recognizability of the flagship villains. Villains like Penguin, Ra's Al Ghul, Pierce, Zemo, Ego, Scarecrow, Ozymandius, Vulture... all of these villains were well-done... but unfortunately they are names that the casual movie goer won't remember for long.
Both studios have your ultra-cool sidekick/hitman villain: Faora and Winter Soldier. Badass to the bone but in the end not really fleshed out.
Then there are those whom I call functional villains. They're not exactly bad, they get the job done, but there's nothing good about them either. They're there to move the plot along: Iron Monger, Red Skull, Zod, Luthor in Superman Returns, Ronan, Ludendorf, etc.
There are some who are a bit controversial, like Bane or Ultron. They're memorable but they fall into a love-em-or-hate-em category.
Then there's the completely forgettable ones like Malekith, Whiplash, Parallax, that villain from Catwoman (see I can't even remember her name).
But there's one thing that DC has that the MCU doesn't: Completely ridiculous villains. I'm talking about over-the-top portrayals that didn't end up nicely. Villains like Enchantress, Riddler, Mr. Freeze, Eisenberg's Lex... there's no MCU equivalent to these. The closest you'll get is the Mandarin, but since he wasn't really a villain you can't include him. The Mandarin was meant to be a joke, whereas the above villains were meant to be taken seriously.
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Post by Hauntedknight87 on Oct 23, 2017 17:43:18 GMT
All of this comparisons between MCU and DC villains, but when you think about it, they're actually very similar. Considering that the DCEU is fairly new, I decided to include all DC movies (live action) for this example. Like I said, they're actually very similar. Both studios only have 1 flagship villain each: Joker and Loki. They're the only villains who get instant recognition from even just the casual moviegoer. Then they'll both have well-acted, well fleshed out villains but that don't have the same recognizability of the flagship villains. Villains like Penguin, Ra's Al Ghul, Pierce, Zemo, Ego, Scarecrow, Ozymandius, Vulture... all of these villains were well-done... but unfortunately they are names that the casual movie goer won't remember for long. Both studios have your ultra-cool sidekick/hitman villain: Faora and Winter Soldier. Then there are those whom I call functional villains. They're not exactly bad, they get the job done, but there's nothing good about them either. They're there to move the plot along: Iron Monger, Red Skull, Zod, Luthor in Superman Returns, Ronan, Ludendorf, etc. There are some who are a bit controversial, like Bane or Ultron. They're memorable but they fall into a love-em-or-hate-em category. Then there's the completely forgettable ones like Malekith, Whiplash, Parallax, that villain from Catwoman (see I can't even remember her name). But there's one thing that DC has that the MCU doesn't: Completely ridiculous villains. I'm talking about over-the-top portrayals that didn't end up nicely. Villains like Enchantress, Riddler, Mr. Freeze, Eisenberg's Lex... there's no MCU equivalent to these. The closest you'll get is the Mandarin, but since he wasn't really a villain you can't include him. The Mandarin was meant to be a joke, whereas the above villains were meant to be taken seriously. Why was Bane controversial?
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Post by scabab on Oct 23, 2017 17:51:16 GMT
DC has more villains I like I'd say. Between the original Batman villains like Jack Nicholson as The Joker, Danny Devito as Penguin and Jim Carreys as The Riddler.
Then the Nolan Batman villains like Scarecrow, Joker and Bane. Lex Luthor in the old Superman movies and Zod in Man of Steel.
Yeah I generally find them more memorable.
Especially if we're just comparing them to the MCU villains specifically.
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Post by Skaathar on Oct 23, 2017 18:18:11 GMT
Why was Bane controversial? Some liked him, some thought he was a laughing stock. You'd hear people talking about his short stature, flabby appearance and unintelligible voice.
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Post by Skaathar on Oct 23, 2017 18:18:54 GMT
DC has more villains I like I'd say. Between the original Batman villains like Jack Nicholson as The Joker, Danny Devito as Penguin and Jim Carreys as The Riddler. Then the Nolan Batman villains like Scarecrow, Joker and Bane. Lex Luthor in the old Superman movies and Zod in Man of Steel. Yeah I generally find them more memorable. Especially if we're just comparing them to the MCU villains specifically. I was trying not to use my personal preference but the average outlook of general audiences.
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Post by DC-Fan on Oct 24, 2017 0:21:58 GMT
Completely ridiculous villains. Like Ronan?
Ronan: "I'm Ronan the Big Bad Destroyer of Planets and I will destroy all of you!" Gets defeated by a silly Dance-Off.
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Post by seahawksraawk00 on Oct 24, 2017 0:37:51 GMT
Completely ridiculous villains. Like Ronan?
Ronan: "I'm Ronan the Big Bad Destroyer of Planets and I will destroy all of you!" Gets defeated by a silly Dance-Off.
What about the dance actually, physically, defeated Ronan?
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Post by formersamhmd on Oct 24, 2017 0:46:34 GMT
Completely ridiculous villains. Like Ronan?
Ronan: "I'm Ronan the Big Bad Destroyer of Planets and I will destroy all of you!" Gets defeated by a silly Dance-Off.
He was defeated by an Infinity Stone, not dancing. Of course, you'd complain no matter how he was defeated.
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Post by Skaathar on Oct 24, 2017 0:49:25 GMT
Completely ridiculous villains. Like Ronan?
Ronan: "I'm Ronan the Big Bad Destroyer of Planets and I will destroy all of you!" Gets defeated by a silly Dance-Off.
At least it wasn't Ronan doing the dancing, unlike Enchantress.
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Post by Hauntedknight87 on Oct 24, 2017 1:25:47 GMT
Why was Bane controversial? Some liked him, some thought he was a laughing stock. You'd hear people talking about his short stature, flabby appearance and unintelligible voice. Which is weird because i remember how controversial Bane was in Batman and Robin. At least nolan didn't make him a mindless thug. Plus he had the best dialogue in the entire film. "You think darkness is your ally? You merely adopted the dark. I was born in it, moulded by it. I haven't seen the light until i was already a man, by than it was nothing to me but blinding. The shadows betrayed you, because they belong to ME!"
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Post by formersamhmd on Oct 24, 2017 1:31:37 GMT
The big difference is that in Marvel the real meat of the story comes from the protagonist, their character flaws and the internal conflict they get from their allies and friends. The villain is mainly just a plot device, an obstacle to be overcome.
DC's heroes tend to be more reactive and more "guy who opposes the villain", they aren't interested in the hero as a flawed character who conflicts with others. So they need the villain to make up for that and be more dynamic and integral to the plot. It doesn't always works.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 24, 2017 2:08:06 GMT
The difference is that DC has interesting heroes AND villains, while Marvel has generic quipsters for heroes and villains.
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Post by formersamhmd on Oct 24, 2017 2:25:03 GMT
The difference is that DC has interesting heroes AND villains, while Marvel has generic quipsters for heroes and villains. Nah, Marvel characters just act like people instead of archetypes.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 24, 2017 2:42:46 GMT
The difference is that DC has interesting heroes AND villains, while Marvel has generic quipsters for heroes and villains. Nah, Marvel characters just act like people instead of archetypes. They act like dumb quipsters. Oh, funny joke, Ultron!
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Post by Lord Death Man on Oct 24, 2017 2:48:24 GMT
Nah, Marvel characters just act like people instead of archetypes. They act like dumb quipsters. Oh, funny joke, Ultron! 10 years... 10 long years... of protesting the same thing over and over. Only to watch it grow in scale, popularity and influence. And, just think, it might last another 10... I have nothing but the profoundest respect for you and your kind. You're all soldiers of the apocalypse. Hee hee hee...
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Post by Deleted on Oct 24, 2017 2:52:30 GMT
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Post by coldenhaulfield on Oct 24, 2017 4:01:58 GMT
They act like dumb quipsters. Oh, funny joke, Ultron! 10 years... 10 long years... of protesting the same thing over and over. Only to watch it grow in scale, popularity and influence. And, just think, it might last another 10... I have nothing but the profoundest respect for you and your kind. You're all soldiers of the apocalypse. Hee hee hee... All fads rise and fall. "Another 10" years you say, with skeletal chest puffed out proud? Let's see where it is in thirty years, kiddo. We already know they'll be making big-budget Batman and Superman movies... Hee hee hee...
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Post by merh on Oct 24, 2017 4:17:23 GMT
DC has more villains I like I'd say. Between the original Batman villains like Jack Nicholson as The Joker, Danny Devito as Penguin and Jim Carreys as The Riddler. Then the Nolan Batman villains like Scarecrow, Joker and Bane. Lex Luthor in the old Superman movies and Zod in Man of Steel. Yeah I generally find them more memorable. Especially if we're just comparing them to the MCU villains specifically. So we go pre-DCEU to pull in Nicholson, but only MCU? Following your Nicholson inclusion (Why not the old Zod who was far more memorable?), why not Doc Ock? Magneto? Green Goblin? But the biggest difference between the MCU & DCEU is marvel fleshed out the heroes while DCEU is equally obsessed with villains.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 24, 2017 4:23:02 GMT
I disagree. The majority of people I know who don't watch superhero movies or read comic books KNOW who Lex Luthor and the Penguin are. Along with the Joker and the Riddler I would say they are two of the most well known comic book villains of all time and most of that has to do with them appearing in multiple movies and TV shows. It is like how a lot of people who don't watch Horror movies know who Freddy, Jason and Michael are 'cause they are a big part of the genre. That being said both the DCEU and MCU have been pretty bad at handling villains so far and neither company can brag about being better than the other 'cause the reality is they both stink in that department. The version of the Shocker we saw in 'Spider-Man: Homecoming was by far the worst adaption I have ever seen of a comic book villain on screen and an insult to the character. If that is how the MCU is going to write the rest of Spider-Man's villains I am glad Sony is keeping the Sinister Six but maybe they might turn it around in the following movie and not ruin another villain. 'Batman vs Superman: Dawn of Justice's' version of Doomsday was very disappointing too and I would have liked to have seen him as his OWN villain instead of just some monster like creature Lex Luthor created with Zod’s DNA.
Doomsday is real alien and he actually talks and has a personality (he even became a hero in the comic books at one point and liked humans) and I think he would have been better handled if they had followed the 'Smallville' path and had Doomsday as the son of Zod looking for revenge on Superman for killing his Father and they could have had him start out in the human form of Davis Bloom but with him fully aware of who he was so he could transform in to the Doomsday form anytime he wanted to ‘cause that would have made him more dangerous and given him a form to walk around in throughout the movie without leaving him to the last five minutes. The Enchantress was poorly written too but I believe it was a mistake to make a movie of 'Suicide Squad' so early in the DCEU and it should have been left for later AFTER Teen Titans, Birds of Prey, JSA, Legion, Justice League etc which are all bigger selling series.
The difference between the DCEU and the MCU though is the DCEU are still very young and we have yet to see a lot of their superheroes and supervillains on screen. We haven't even seen the first solo 'Batman' movie yet so the DCEU have the chance to turn it around with better writers but looking at the full line up of villains in the DCEU and MCU now I would take Braniac in 'Smallville' any day over all of them along with 'Smallville's versions of Lex Luthor, Zod, Bizarrio and 'Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman's versions of Lex Luthor and Tempus. All of them were far more memorable and 'entertaining' which is a word the movie writers just can't seem to get right. If the 'Arkham' games were movies they would slaughter both the DCEU and MCU with their villains 'cause they actually have great versions of villains but 'Arkham Asylum' and 'Arkham City' had the advantage of being written by Paul Dinni who can write villains and created Harley Quinn.
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Post by scabab on Oct 24, 2017 7:00:57 GMT
DC has more villains I like I'd say. Between the original Batman villains like Jack Nicholson as The Joker, Danny Devito as Penguin and Jim Carreys as The Riddler. Then the Nolan Batman villains like Scarecrow, Joker and Bane. Lex Luthor in the old Superman movies and Zod in Man of Steel. Yeah I generally find them more memorable. Especially if we're just comparing them to the MCU villains specifically. So we go pre-DCEU to pull in Nicholson, but only MCU? Following your Nicholson inclusion (Why not the old Zod who was far more memorable?), why not Doc Ock? Magneto? Green Goblin? But the biggest difference between the MCU & DCEU is marvel fleshed out the heroes while DCEU is equally obsessed with villains. That's what the OP was referring to. "I decided to include all DC movies (live action) for this example." So that's what I was commenting on.
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