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Post by formersamhmd on Nov 5, 2017 0:25:02 GMT
formersamhmd And the original X-men movies, Batman, Batman Returns, Batman Forever, Superman, Superman 2, Man of Steel, The Dark Knight trilogy and more. Plenty of the superhero movies have done it. I don't even mean just superhero movies either. Look at Die Hard for example. Red Skull and Kaecilius were pretty plain and forgettable. Hela at least had personality but again she's never gonna be a memorable villain. The X-Men and Batman movies are very much dominated by their villains. Die Hard's villain isn't any better than the MCU villains you criticize. Red Skull and K were effective, the movies just didn't forget that they were about Cap and Dr Strange.
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Post by formersamhmd on Nov 5, 2017 0:26:01 GMT
So basically, the idea is still "We want the villain to totally overshadow the hero" because people still are upset at the idea of the hero being the star of their own movie. That's not at all what anyone is saying and you know it. However, it would be nice if just ONCE it seemed like a mcu villain was at least a semi threat instead of an embarrassingly weak joke. I know jokes are by far the most important thing in a mcu movie but it's kind of pathetic that 15 minutes after you watch a mcu movie you can barely remember the villains name much less what it's alleged "threat" was. The only reason people can say that is because the MCU people were nice enough to let us know about movies in advance so we know the heroes will survive. Naturally instead of appreciating this, people just complain.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2017 0:40:22 GMT
Oh, look, so whining about flaws the MCU doesn't actually have from many of its supposed fans. Its one thing to think critically, but about 90% of the discussions we have here are just nitpicking the MCU. I swear, judgejosephdredd, ArArArch, skaathar, formersamhmd, and myself are the only people around here to make an honest effort to say something positive about the MCU.
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Post by scabab on Nov 5, 2017 0:53:15 GMT
formersamhmd And the original X-men movies, Batman, Batman Returns, Batman Forever, Superman, Superman 2, Man of Steel, The Dark Knight trilogy and more. Plenty of the superhero movies have done it. I don't even mean just superhero movies either. Look at Die Hard for example. Red Skull and Kaecilius were pretty plain and forgettable. Hela at least had personality but again she's never gonna be a memorable villain. The X-Men and Batman movies are very much dominated by their villains. Die Hard's villain isn't any better than the MCU villains you criticize. Red Skull and K were effective, the movies just didn't forget that they were about Cap and Dr Strange. They're not dominated by their villain at all except for the original Batman bit even then people liked that Batman and he's a memorable Batman. Hans Gruber is often considered one of the greatest action movie villains of all time. He has made it on many best villain lists and it is an iconic performance which many movies tried to copy in the 90's with their villains. There is no MCU villain that even begins to compare to that outside of possibly Loki. Just because they are superhero movies doesn't mean the villain has to consistently be poor. If they can get it right with Thor and Spider-man Homecoming then they should get it right with them all.
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Post by poelzig on Nov 5, 2017 0:53:44 GMT
That's not at all what anyone is saying and you know it. However, it would be nice if just ONCE it seemed like a mcu villain was at least a semi threat instead of an embarrassingly weak joke. I know jokes are by far the most important thing in a mcu movie but it's kind of pathetic that 15 minutes after you watch a mcu movie you can barely remember the villains name much less what it's alleged "threat" was. The only reason people can say that is because the MCU people were nice enough to let us know about movies in advance so we know the heroes will survive. Naturally instead of appreciating this, people just complain. Yes it's much better when there is no tension or uncertainty in a movie. Same reason the villains always have to be weak, forgettable and silly. Can't have the audience scared and sobbing because something happened they were not expecting.
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Post by poelzig on Nov 5, 2017 0:57:40 GMT
Oh, look, so whining about flaws the MCU doesn't actually have from many of its supposed fans. Its one thing to think critically, but about 90% of the discussions we have here are just nitpicking the MCU. I swear, judgejosephdredd, ArArArch, skaathar, formersamhmd, and myself are the only people around here to make an honest effort to say something positive about the MCU. Pointing out glaring flaws that ALMOST anyone can easily see is not whining. Getting upset because other people don't wear blinders however..........
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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2017 0:58:14 GMT
Marvel HAS gotten it right with their villains. Sorry they don't all require their own Shakespearean Tragedy Arc.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2017 1:01:36 GMT
Oh, look, so whining about flaws the MCU doesn't actually have from many of its supposed fans. Its one thing to think critically, but about 90% of the discussions we have here are just nitpicking the MCU. I swear, judgejosephdredd, ArArArch, skaathar, formersamhmd, and myself are the only people around here to make an honest effort to say something positive about the MCU. Pointing out glaring flaws that ALMOST anyone can easily see is not whining. Getting upset because other people don't wear blinders however.......... scabab
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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2017 1:02:06 GMT
The only reason people can say that is because the MCU people were nice enough to let us know about movies in advance so we know the heroes will survive. Naturally instead of appreciating this, people just complain. Yes it's much better when there is no tension or uncertainty in a movie. Same reason the villains always have to be weak, forgettable and silly. Can't have the audience scared and sobbing because something happened they were not expecting. scabab
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Post by scabab on Nov 5, 2017 1:03:51 GMT
Pointing out glaring flaws that ALMOST anyone can easily see is not whining. Getting upset because other people don't wear blinders however.......... scabab He didn't really say anything wrong there. He wasn't insulting anybody. He has a point, the Marvel Cinematic Universe has received much critical acclaim over the years but the villain problem has often been pointed out.
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Post by poelzig on Nov 5, 2017 1:05:23 GMT
Pointing out glaring flaws that ALMOST anyone can easily see is not whining. Getting upset because other people don't wear blinders however.......... scabab So now you just flag every post I make on any comic board and hope Scabab will agree with you? You said people were whining and you think thats okay but if I say someone is whining you want scabab to reprimand me? Seriously?!!!!!!!!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2017 1:05:24 GMT
He didn't really say anything wrong there. He wasn't insulting anybody. He has a point, the Marvel Cinematic Universe has received much critical acclaim over the years but the villain problem has often been pointed out. There is no villain problem. There's only a problem if this same problem exists in the rest of cinema. Also, see his other post, which did insult people.
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Post by scabab on Nov 5, 2017 1:22:05 GMT
He didn't really say anything wrong there. He wasn't insulting anybody. He has a point, the Marvel Cinematic Universe has received much critical acclaim over the years but the villain problem has often been pointed out. There is no villain problem. There's only a problem if this same problem exists in the rest of cinema. Also, see his other post, which did insult people. It's problem enough for it to be repeatedly pointed out. Such as this article, one amongst many. metro.co.uk/2017/10/27/will-the-marvel-universe-ever-get-an-iconic-villain-7032911/"While the heroes of the Avengers have been the backbone of the Marvel franchise, they have rarely come up against a truly memorable villain. So, why are the bad guys making so little impact? For context, let’s look at DC’s movies. While recent entries haven’t been a patch on their Marvel rivals, historically they do seem to do better when it comes to the dark side. Batman alone has brought up some legendary turns – Michelle Pfeiffer’s Catwoman, Danny DeVito’s Penguin, and of course the equally legendary portrayals of The Joker by Jack Nicholson and Heath Ledger. Even getting into the lacklustre DC Universe, Margot Robbie inspired a million cosplayers with her take on Harley Quinn, and whether you loved or hated Jared Leto’s Joker, people were certainly talking about it. Can the same be said about Guardians of The Galaxy’s Ronan, or Whiplash from Iron Man 2? With the exception of the excellent Loki, now more of an inbetweener than an outright villain, The Marvel Universe has always felt lacking in antagonists." You can find articles like this left and right. They've got the heroes spot on, almost all of them are likable but the villains outside of the odd few from across 17 movies, they need to improve them.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2017 1:25:24 GMT
There is no villain problem. There's only a problem if this same problem exists in the rest of cinema. Also, see his other post, which did insult people. It's problem enough for it to be repeatedly pointed out. Such as this article, one amongst many. metro.co.uk/2017/10/27/will-the-marvel-universe-ever-get-an-iconic-villain-7032911/"While the heroes of the Avengers have been the backbone of the Marvel franchise, they have rarely come up against a truly memorable villain. So, why are the bad guys making so little impact? For context, let’s look at DC’s movies. While recent entries haven’t been a patch on their Marvel rivals, historically they do seem to do better when it comes to the dark side. Batman alone has brought up some legendary turns – Michelle Pfeiffer’s Catwoman, Danny DeVito’s Penguin, and of course the equally legendary portrayals of The Joker by Jack Nicholson and Heath Ledger. Even getting into the lacklustre DC Universe, Margot Robbie inspired a million cosplayers with her take on Harley Quinn, and whether you loved or hated Jared Leto’s Joker, people were certainly talking about it. Can the same be said about Guardians of The Galaxy’s Ronan, or Whiplash from Iron Man 2? With the exception of the excellent Loki, now more of an inbetweener than an outright villain, The Marvel Universe has always felt lacking in antagonists." You can find articles like this left and right. They've got the heroes spot on, almost all of them are likable but the villains outside of the odd few from across 17 movies, they need to improve them. No, it isn't. People are just overly picky and the internet allows them to whine more. That entire article can be applied to most of cinema. As stated, most villains aren't memorable. Hell, even most of Shakespeare's villains aren't that deep. They exist to play their role while the focus remains on the protagonist. If it was good enough for him, its good enough for the MCU.
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Post by taylorfirst1 on Nov 5, 2017 1:30:21 GMT
Maybe the folks over at Marvel and Disney will start wringing their hands over this "problem" they have as soon as they finish counting their money.
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Post by DC-Fan on Nov 5, 2017 1:30:25 GMT
It's really simple. MCU always has weak villains because MCU's so-called "heroes" are too weak to actually go up against a powerful villain who is a real threat so MCU has to make their villains weak (like the powerless Chitauri) in order to make their so-called "heroes" look better. MCU fans think that makes a better movie, but it actually makes MCU movies worse.
In Wrestlemania III, the main event was Hulk Hogan vs Andre the Giant. Hulk Hogan, 6-foot-8, over 300 pounds, the most popular wrestler of his era. Andre the Giant, 7-foot-4, over 500 pounds, the 8th Wonder of the World. That was a real heavyweight clash of the titans that everyone wanted to see. Now just imagine if the main event of Wrestlemania III wasn't Hulk Hogan vs Andre the Giant but was Hulk Hogan vs The Brooklyn Brawler.
Now that would've been a huge letdown and a lame main event. And that's what MCU movies feel like. A huge letdown. A so-called "hero" who isn't much of a hero because there isn't even a villain who is capable of giving the so-called "hero" any kind of challenge. That's 1 of the reasons (and a very valid and legitimate reason) why I give low ratings to MCU movies. Because watching an MCU movie is about as exciting as watching LeBron James play basketball against high school kids. Not much of a challenge at all.
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Post by scabab on Nov 5, 2017 1:39:19 GMT
It's problem enough for it to be repeatedly pointed out. Such as this article, one amongst many. metro.co.uk/2017/10/27/will-the-marvel-universe-ever-get-an-iconic-villain-7032911/"While the heroes of the Avengers have been the backbone of the Marvel franchise, they have rarely come up against a truly memorable villain. So, why are the bad guys making so little impact? For context, let’s look at DC’s movies. While recent entries haven’t been a patch on their Marvel rivals, historically they do seem to do better when it comes to the dark side. Batman alone has brought up some legendary turns – Michelle Pfeiffer’s Catwoman, Danny DeVito’s Penguin, and of course the equally legendary portrayals of The Joker by Jack Nicholson and Heath Ledger. Even getting into the lacklustre DC Universe, Margot Robbie inspired a million cosplayers with her take on Harley Quinn, and whether you loved or hated Jared Leto’s Joker, people were certainly talking about it. Can the same be said about Guardians of The Galaxy’s Ronan, or Whiplash from Iron Man 2? With the exception of the excellent Loki, now more of an inbetweener than an outright villain, The Marvel Universe has always felt lacking in antagonists." You can find articles like this left and right. They've got the heroes spot on, almost all of them are likable but the villains outside of the odd few from across 17 movies, they need to improve them. No, it isn't. People are just overly picky and the internet allows them to whine more. That entire article can be applied to most of cinema. As stated, most villains aren't memorable. Hell, even most of Shakespeare's villains aren't that deep. They exist to play their role while the focus remains on the protagonist. If it was good enough for him, its good enough for the MCU. Just because most villains aren't memorable doesn't make it ok to not be memorable. Their heroes are memorable so should also be able to do the same of the villains.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2017 1:40:25 GMT
No, it isn't. People are just overly picky and the internet allows them to whine more. That entire article can be applied to most of cinema. As stated, most villains aren't memorable. Hell, even most of Shakespeare's villains aren't that deep. They exist to play their role while the focus remains on the protagonist. If it was good enough for him, its good enough for the MCU. Just because most villains aren't memorable doesn't make it ok to not be memorable. Their heroes are memorable so should also be able to do the same of the villains. Okay, so how much screen time should Captain America give up in The First Avenger to bolster to The Red Skull?
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Post by DC-Fan on Nov 5, 2017 1:45:54 GMT
Just because most villains aren't memorable doesn't make it ok to not be memorable. Their heroes are memorable so should also be able to do the same of the villains. Okay, so how much screen time should Captain America give up in The First Avenger to bolster to The Red Skull? How about the part where Captain America makes his 1st public appearance in costume, dancing on stage with cheerleaders for Stan Lee?
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Post by scabab on Nov 5, 2017 1:49:10 GMT
@weirdraptor Captain America wouldn't have had to give up any screentime. Other characters could have instead like Peggy, Bucky, Howard Stark, Tommy Lee Jones character etc. poelzigNo which is why I deleted it. I was hoping to have got to it before you saw it. There will be no squabbling though so they'll all be deleted if there not on topic.
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