|
Post by Skaathar on Mar 6, 2017 18:40:59 GMT
I just finished watching Logan last night and while I greatly enjoyed it, I realized something: That if there were too many of these dark and gritty superhero movies, audiences would get tired of it very easily.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying the movie was bad, far from it. I think these are the kind of movies that can win Oscars. However, it was also very emotionally draining. And considering how often we get superhero movies nowadays (like what, 1 every 2-3 months?), if majority of these movies were dark and gritty then the audiences would get tired of them pretty quickly. At the end of the day people still like to enjoy themselves. They'll appreciate a movie that breaks away from that but only when it's once every now and then.
Another downside is that it's very hard to hide mistakes when your movie is all about dark and realistic. When your movie is fun and enjoyable, people are likely to forgive your mistakes. When it's dark, well, then it's glaring. Logan was good enough to not have a lot of mistakes but movies like BvS, well, I theorize that had they been more enjoyable people would have been more forgiving.
|
|
|
Post by politicidal on Mar 6, 2017 18:59:30 GMT
You're not wrong. There needs to be a balance or at least more variety. People are through with the DC's doom and gloom schtick and grumbling is arising over the MCU formula. I think the first superhero movie boom in the 2000s for all the faults in their output, had greater variety in superhero/comic book films. We had bright and colorful with Sam Raimi's Spider-Man, dark and gritty with Daredevil and Hulk, the middle-ground with X-Men, strange and quirky with Hellboy, mature and adult with Batman Begins, kid-friendly with Fantastic Four, and just plain silly with Catwoman.
|
|
|
Post by Hauntedknight87 on Mar 6, 2017 19:31:27 GMT
You're not wrong. There needs to be a balance or at least more variety. People are through with the DC's doom and gloom schtick and grumbling is arising over the MCU formula. I think the first superhero movie boom in the 2000s for all the faults in their output, had greater variety in superhero/comic book films. We had bright and colorful with Sam Raimi's Spider-Man, dark and gritty with Daredevil and Hulk, the middle-ground with X-Men, strange and quirky with Hellboy, mature and adult with Batman Begins, kid-friendly with Fantastic Four, and just plain silly with Catwoman. THIS! I've mentioned this back on IMDB, the more variety of CBM's the better. Not sure why people want all CBM's to be the same.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
@Deleted
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2017 19:49:33 GMT
I don't know anyone who thinks all superhero movies should be dark and gritty.
|
|
|
Post by Skaathar on Mar 6, 2017 19:52:38 GMT
Let me clarify: Any formula, if repeated enough, gets tiring eventually. Variety is always the best course. However, what I wanted to point out is that people will get tired with the "dark and gritty" formula faster than they get tired of the "fun enjoyable" formula.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
@Deleted
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2017 19:58:46 GMT
I agree. Didn't enjoy myself at last year's X-Men or DC films at all, because of how bleak they freakin' were. CA: Civil War was dark, too, but Dear Lord, at least they occasionally smiled and lightened the mood.
|
|
|
Post by fangirl1975 on Mar 6, 2017 20:02:12 GMT
I just finished watching Logan last night and while I greatly enjoyed it, I realized something: That if there were too many of these dark and gritty superhero movies, audiences would get tired of it very easily. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying the movie was bad, far from it. I think these are the kind of movies that can win Oscars. However, it was also very emotionally draining. And considering how often we get superhero movies nowadays (like what, 1 every 2-3 months?), if majority of these movies were dark and gritty then the audiences would get tired of them pretty quickly. At the end of the day people still like to enjoy themselves. They'll appreciate a movie that breaks away from that but only when it's once every now and then. Another downside is that it's very hard to hide mistakes when your movie is all about dark and realistic. When your movie is fun and enjoyable, people are likely to forgive your mistakes. When it's dark, well, then it's glaring. Logan was good enough to not have a lot of mistakes but movies like BvS, well, I theorize that had they been more enjoyable people would have been more forgiving. You're right. People would get tired of such a formula quickly. That's why the MCU is better regarded. The MCU films have more of a sense of fun.
|
|
|
Post by ThatGuy on Mar 6, 2017 20:26:54 GMT
Let me clarify: Any formula, if repeated enough, gets tiring eventually. Variety is always the best course. However, what I wanted to point out is that people will get tired with the "dark and gritty" formula faster than they get tired of the "fun enjoyable" formula. I think the reason why the MCU won't get stale is because of the variety in characters. The type of movies varies with the characters even though they can be light with humor. The problem with the X-men movies is either they aren't good or they are all the same movie*. The DC movies are trying to be "dark" like the Nolan movies, but they don't understand how to do it. They are actively trying to make themselves different from the Marvel movies (especially when Green Lantern didn't work) instead of just making DC movies. And with variety, the characters seem like they are on the same level. Superman feels like you can put him in the bat suit and have Cavill act like Superman and you'd still get Batman. With Logan, it wasn't because it was different or dark and gritty or whatever. Logan was genuinely a good movie. *You can really tell that X2 and DoFP was made by the same guy. And that anything that the 2 different groups of writers put in was superseded by the director.
|
|
|
Post by brownstones on Mar 6, 2017 20:38:41 GMT
it's not the dark and grittiness that is and issue, it's any tone that becomes an issue when there is a lack of variety. if we only had the mcu films, people would eventually grow tired of the tone, if we only had dark and gritty films people would grow tired of that as well.
what you want is a proper equilibrium, but what normally happens is studios chase trends causing more of a pendulum effect.
and the main reason why the mcu has done well, is not because of their tone, it's because of their films in general, they fluctuate from decent to good. Nolan's trilogy wasn't cheerful, but it did extremely well.
simply put quality supersedes tone, but tone is quickly blamed if a film does poorly, which is well.........dumb. BvS's issue wasn't tone (some disagree) but it was flat out script issues.
|
|
|
Post by Primemovermithrax Pejorative on Mar 6, 2017 20:52:42 GMT
I don't the superhero formula is sustainable--period. It's not like a western where you had a zillion of them and yet many are compelling watches because of the actors or dialogue or just the fact that you were dealing with mortals so there is identification and suspense. The superhero is such a limited genre in character range. The essence of the superhero is someone devoted to public service with no real self-interest. No one can really die for good, you know a remake or sequel is coming, and Wall Street people do not know what art is. The most true comic book movie is someone running around in a ridiculously colorful costume doing feats of daring do. But you do not get much of that. The 78 Superman was the closest to that sensibility. I would not count any superhero film where the characters do not wear the costumes so that rules out the X-men films. The angst and neurosis and nihilism is really not classic ingredients of a superhero story. It should really be an adventure, not Leaving Las Vegas with mutants.
|
|
|
Post by ThatGuy on Mar 6, 2017 21:14:53 GMT
I don't the superhero formula is sustainable--period. It's not like a western where you had a zillion of them and yet many are compelling watches because of the actors or dialogue or just the fact that you were dealing with mortals so there is identification and suspense. The superhero is such a limited genre in character range. The essence of the superhero is someone devoted to public service with no real self-interest. No one can really die for good, you know a remake or sequel is coming, and Wall Street people do not know what art is. The most true comic book movie is someone running around in a ridiculously colorful costume doing feats of daring do. But you do not get much of that. The 78 Superman was the closest to that sensibility. I would not count any superhero film where the characters do not wear the costumes so that rules out the X-men films. The angst and neurosis and nihilism is really not classic ingredients of a superhero story. It should really be an adventure, not Leaving Las Vegas with mutants. But... At the same time, when a western character dies they can make another character just like him. How many Clint Eastwood western characters were the same character? So killing a character in a western really doesn't matter.
|
|
|
Post by Agent of Chaos on Mar 6, 2017 21:25:34 GMT
I agree. Didn't enjoy myself at last year's X-Men or DC films at all, because of how bleak they freakin' were. CA: Civil War was dark, too, but Dear Lord, at least they occasionally smiled and lightened the mood. The last X-Men movie was bleak? With goofy characters like Quicksilver, Nightcrawler, and to a lesser extent Xavier? I don't like SS but that wasn't a bleak movie either.
|
|
|
Post by Primemovermithrax Pejorative on Mar 6, 2017 21:28:53 GMT
But... At the same time, when a western character dies they can make another character just like him. How many Clint Eastwood western characters were the same character? So killing a character in a western really doesn't matter. Haha yeah I suppose, but you don't watch a western with that idea in mind-usually. I don't watch a Eastwood western and think: "oh great, another franchise product placement." The western should be totally dead but watching a ton of Euro ones recently, it is surprising how much mileage they can get out of a hat, gun, horse, town jail, bank...obviously the filmmakers' talents are a factor too.
|
|
Lee
Sophomore
@neo
Posts: 327
Likes: 177
|
Post by Lee on Mar 6, 2017 21:45:52 GMT
This whining about dark and gritty really annoys me. Not every comicbook movie has to be filled with humour, dealt with that.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
@Deleted
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2017 21:50:21 GMT
it's not the dark and grittiness that is and issue, it's any tone that becomes an issue when there is a lack of variety. if we only had the mcu films, people would eventually grow tired of the tone, if we only had dark and gritty films people would grow tired of that as well. what you want is a proper equilibrium, but what normally happens is studios chase trends causing more of a pendulum effect. and the main reason why the mcu has done well, is not because of their tone, it's because of their films in general, they fluctuate from decent to good. Nolan's trilogy wasn't cheerful, but it did extremely well. simply put quality supersedes tone, but tone is quickly blamed if a film does poorly, which is well.........dumb. BvS's issue wasn't tone (some disagree) but it was flat out script issues. This is correct. Outside of actually testing out the whole shared movie universe concept, Marvel isn't really trying anything groundbreaking (as far as individual movies go). They stay in the pocket. They have a particular tone and four-quadrant formula that they want to execute in every movie, and then they hire people who are competent enough to carry out that vision. The problem with BvS is that the theatrical cut was a mess. And when you couple a messy script with an overly serious tone, you open yourself to ruthless criticism. Had they played things a little more safe (in terms of tone), I think the criticism wouldn't have been as harsh. But it still would have been there. The TC is not a great movie.
|
|
|
Post by Skaathar on Mar 6, 2017 23:11:16 GMT
This whining about dark and gritty really annoys me. Not every comicbook movie has to be filled with humour, dealt with that. Who's whining? Making a valid point isn't whining.
|
|
|
Post by Skaathar on Mar 6, 2017 23:13:16 GMT
it's not the dark and grittiness that is and issue, it's any tone that becomes an issue when there is a lack of variety. if we only had the mcu films, people would eventually grow tired of the tone, if we only had dark and gritty films people would grow tired of that as well. what you want is a proper equilibrium, but what normally happens is studios chase trends causing more of a pendulum effect. and the main reason why the mcu has done well, is not because of their tone, it's because of their films in general, they fluctuate from decent to good. Nolan's trilogy wasn't cheerful, but it did extremely well. simply put quality supersedes tone, but tone is quickly blamed if a film does poorly, which is well.........dumb. BvS's issue wasn't tone (some disagree) but it was flat out script issues. This is correct. Outside of actually testing out the whole shared movie universe concept, Marvel isn't really trying anything groundbreaking (as far as individual movies go). They stay in the pocket. They have a particular tone and four-quadrant formula that they want to execute in every movie, and then they hire people who are competent enough to carry out that vision. The problem with BvS is that the theatrical cut was a mess. And when you couple a messy script with an overly serious tone, you open yourself to ruthless criticism. Had they played things a little more safe (in terms of tone), I think the criticism wouldn't have been as harsh. But it still would have been there. The TC is not a great movie. We've gone through this dance before Dennis. I've already pointed out to you numerous times how the MCU takes far more risks than any other comicbook movie company out there. It also has nothing to do with this thread's topic.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
@Deleted
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2017 0:29:20 GMT
I agree. Didn't enjoy myself at last year's X-Men or DC films at all, because of how bleak they freakin' were. CA: Civil War was dark, too, but Dear Lord, at least they occasionally smiled and lightened the mood. The last X-Men movie was bleak? With goofy characters like Quicksilver, Nightcrawler, and to a lesser extent Xavier? I don't like SS but that wasn't a bleak movie either. I didn't think they did that much to lighten the mood, especially when you have a villain wrecking whole cities and killing thousands of innocent people this time around.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
@Deleted
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2017 2:02:04 GMT
This is correct. Outside of actually testing out the whole shared movie universe concept, Marvel isn't really trying anything groundbreaking (as far as individual movies go). They stay in the pocket. They have a particular tone and four-quadrant formula that they want to execute in every movie, and then they hire people who are competent enough to carry out that vision. The problem with BvS is that the theatrical cut was a mess. And when you couple a messy script with an overly serious tone, you open yourself to ruthless criticism. Had they played things a little more safe (in terms of tone), I think the criticism wouldn't have been as harsh. But it still would have been there. The TC is not a great movie. We've gone through this dance before Dennis. I've already pointed out to you numerous times how the MCU takes far more risks than any other comicbook movie company out there. It also has nothing to do with this thread's topic. MCU stays in the pocket. It's fact.
|
|
|
Post by Skaathar on Mar 7, 2017 23:59:27 GMT
We've gone through this dance before Dennis. I've already pointed out to you numerous times how the MCU takes far more risks than any other comicbook movie company out there. It also has nothing to do with this thread's topic. MCU stays in the pocket. It's fact. If by "staying in the pocket" you mean to say that MCU is able to make all good movies then yeah, sure.
|
|