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Post by ThatGuy on Dec 16, 2017 2:21:39 GMT
They couldnt have a strong positive white male character (as I have said over and over). They have to fail. Even in the OT this was the message, but it was far more subtle. Lando was the successful action hero--he blew up a Death Star without the Force. Luke couldnt do it without the Force and Han shooting Vader in the back. Han needed to be rescued. Same with the Prequels. Mace Windu was the real hero, and two white guys had to betray him to defeat him. Obi Wan fails as a teacher and friend. What we are seeing is the Liberal agenda of the 60s reaching its zenith with strong black men and multiculturalism and women as leaders. And the Wall Street owners do not care because they have money-this isn't about making money--its about propaganda distribution. The movie is a vehicle transmitting propaganda. That is how Wall Street Disney sees it. Wedge was with Lando. Just saying. And Lando couldn't have done it without Han and his plan to get into the shield generator. |
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Post by Surly on Dec 16, 2017 2:27:13 GMT
You know, I'm glad you brought that up, because that was another major failure of this movie. Did Rian Johnson even view TFA once before he started making this movie? They're called THE RESISTANCE. There is NO REBELLION in this movie. That was the OT. Yes there was and you're missing the point. I have no problem with them introducing astral projection, in fact, I applaud that decision. The problem I have with it is that characters in the EU did this all the time and it didn't "sap them" of their very lives. I don't care that it wasn't thoroughly discussed or explained. That's fine too. What's not fine is acting like using that power took so much energy to perform that Luke died from it. That spits in the face of the ho-hum way it was used by characters in the EU. Even if they decided to change how astral projection works in new canon, fine, I got no problem with that either, unless, of course, it results in death. That just made no sense whatsoever. It was an idiot coming up with an idiotic way to kill off an old hero because that idiot doesn't know jack shit about Star Wars. It was a miserable failure. No it doesn't fit. Not in the least! That's a bunch of contrived nonsense. Oh now you're just being a jerk and missing the point. Get a job at Disney. Oh wait! You probably already are one of their hack, underpaid shills. |
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Post by Primemovermithrax Pejorative on Dec 16, 2017 2:31:51 GMT
Wedge was with Lando. Just saying. And Lando couldn't have done it without Han and his plan to get into the shield generator. Yeah forgot about Wedge. I dont remember them making an action figure of him back in the old days. Always overlooked. But Lando still does it in a direct old fashioned way. Han has to impersonate an Imperial officer to get the shield down. Han never does much traditionally heroic (which is why I am surprised people thought he was the hero of Star Wars). I think they assumed he was because he was the tall macho guy but he is not really heroic much of the time. He saves Luke on Hoth but they would have been dead if not for the rescue ships. Will be interesting how Han is depicted in the solo film. I suspect he has a female mentor. |
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Post by ThatGuy on Dec 16, 2017 2:52:51 GMT
They were rebranding themselves because they were rebelling against the First Order who were about to take over the galaxy. So yeah it fits. No it doesn't fit. Not in the least! That's a bunch of contrived nonsense. Oh now you're just being a jerk and missing the point. Get a job at Disney. Oh wait! You probably already are one of their hack, underpaid shills. Or... Just wait for it... I watched the movie and paid attention. Even in the opening crawl they put both RESISTANCE and Rebels. There it is. Someone that has an opinion that doesn't go with yours they have to be a shill. |
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Post by ThatGuy on Dec 16, 2017 3:03:38 GMT
Wedge was with Lando. Just saying. And Lando couldn't have done it without Han and his plan to get into the shield generator. Yeah forgot about Wedge. I dont remember them making an action figure of him back in the old days. Always overlooked. But Lando still does it in a direct old fashioned way. Han has to impersonate an Imperial officer to get the shield down. Han never does much traditionally heroic (which is why I am surprised people thought he was the hero of Star Wars). I think they assumed he was because he was the tall macho guy but he is not really heroic much of the time. He saves Luke on Hoth but they would have been dead if not for the rescue ships. Will be interesting how Han is depicted in the solo film. I suspect he has a female mentor. Lando was the secondary Han. If they didn't have that ground battle then Han would have been flying the Falcon. Han wasn't the hero. Luke was. Han was the rogue. He's always the secondary to the hero that has to go through a type of redemption arc. Like you said, he's the one that saves the day in unconventional ways. I don't think people saw him as a hero as much as a handsome rogue and the guy they want to be like. The lovable a*hole. Except that Luke is more likeable, the dynamic of the trio is the same as Cyclops (Luke), Wolverine (Han) and Jean Grey (Leia). I'm guessing they might make him into another Star Lord. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2017 3:04:22 GMT
How did it ruin the potential for future films? Here's how.... Snoke = believable big bad. But he's dead. Kylo is not a believable big bad. He's a great, conflicted character who could have been interesting to watch evolve, but he's a joke as the person that's supposed to be put fear in the galaxy. Phasma's dead. Hux was emasculated beyond belief, so now he's a big joke. Where's the threat? That's what a movie with drama and intensity needs. There needs to be an ominous threat. None exists now. As for the good guys, none of them except Rey, Finn, Rose and Poe are left. Finn and Rose are uninteresting characters. Poe is mildly interesting, but relative to Star Wars, notsomuch. That leaves Rey, who, even though I like her, is now a completely dead-end character. She has no interesting heritage to rely on and tie into her future and she can't move forward logically as a Jedi now. I always argued that Rey could use the Force without training and that doing so in TFA was still consistent with both EU and new canon. But what I can't argue is that she can become a Jedi or restart the Jedi without being trained by a Jedi first. Whoops, Luke never trained her! Maybe, just maybe, she could have self-taught by reading some old Jedi manuscripts, except, whoops, Force Ghost Yoda can all of a sudden control the weather like he's Ororo Munroe and lit those bastards on fire. So there is no logical progression to restart the Jedi, thus, Rey as a character is now useless. The only place to take it now is the way Rian wants to take it which is by having random kids learn the Force randomly and fight against...<rolls dice> an evil religion of Force users...or....<rolls dice again> an evil corporation of rich people who enslave noble Force users and make them do evil things. Star Wars as we knew it is dead. There is nowhere left to go except have Rey and Kylo get it over with and screw and then star over with a completely new story that has no ties to any of the previous nine episodic films (not that VIII had anything to do with VII, because it didn't). |
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Post by Surly on Dec 16, 2017 3:10:41 GMT
No it doesn't fit. Not in the least! That's a bunch of contrived nonsense. Oh now you're just being a jerk and missing the point. Get a job at Disney. Oh wait! You probably already are one of their hack, underpaid shills. Or... Just wait for it... I watched the movie and paid attention. Even in the opening crawl they put both RESISTANCE and Rebels. There it is. Someone that has an opinion that doesn't go with yours they have to be a shill. Uhh, yeah they did. But that's not the point, Sherlock. The point is the more the movie progressed, the more the Resistance was the Rebels. By the end of the movie there was no trace of Resistance. Which, of course makes no sense since rebels are opposition to an established, ruling government. The First Order is not ruling the entire galaxy. How could they be when they lost Starkiller base and are being retaliated against by the Resistance. And TLJ picks up right where TFA left off. And the time span covered in the movie wouldn't be enough time to subdue the rest of the galaxy under their control. But they waste no time calling the Resistance rebels because it looked like a clone of the Rebels in TFA anyway. But next time pay attention to the logic of the movie and the lack there of, okay keyboard genius. Then maybe you might sound like you know what you're talking about. |
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Post by Primemovermithrax Pejorative on Dec 16, 2017 3:35:20 GMT
Lando was the secondary Han. If they didn't have that ground battle then Han would have been flying the Falcon. Han wasn't the hero. Luke was. Han was the rogue. He's always the secondary to the hero that has to go through a type of redemption arc. Like you said, he's the one that saves the day in unconventional ways. I don't think people saw him as a hero as much as a handsome rogue and the guy they want to be like. The lovable a*hole. Except that Luke is more likeable, the dynamic of the trio is the same as Cyclops (Luke), Wolverine (Han) and Jean Grey (Leia). In recent years people have said Han was the coolest character but I dont see why. He didnt even beat Boba Fett normally. He was blind and did it by accident. Luke does heroic things like blowing up the AT-AT, but Luke fails at the end of ROTJ--at least in a heroic sense. He wants to save his father-the Emperor succeeds in making him angry, he sees the machine hand and resists, but then he gets his ass very badly handed to him by the Emperor and begs his father to help him. Although I liked how Vader picked up the Emperor, they could have dialed down the begging and maybe had Luke assist in dropping the Emperor down the shaft. All he can do is take his father's corpse out. |
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Post by ThatGuy on Dec 16, 2017 3:59:05 GMT
How did it ruin the potential for future films? Here's how.... Snoke = believable big bad. But he's dead. Kylo is not a believable big bad. He's a great, conflicted character who could have been interesting to watch evolve, but he's a joke as the person that's supposed to be put fear in the galaxy. Phasma's dead. Hux was emasculated beyond belief, so now he's a big joke. Where's the threat? That's what a movie with drama and intensity needs. There needs to be an ominous threat. None exists now. As for the good guys, none of them except Rey, Finn, Rose and Poe are left. Finn and Rose are uninteresting characters. Poe is mildly interesting, but relative to Star Wars, notsomuch. That leaves Rey, who, even though I like her, is now a completely dead-end character. She has no interesting heritage to rely on and tie into her future and she can't move forward logically as a Jedi now. I always argued that Rey could use the Force without training and that doing so in TFA was still consistent with both EU and new canon. But what I can't argue is that she can become a Jedi or restart the Jedi without being trained by a Jedi first. Whoops, Luke never trained her! Maybe, just maybe, she could have self-taught by reading some old Jedi manuscripts, except, whoops, Force Ghost Yoda can all of a sudden control the weather like he's Ororo Munroe and lit those bastards on fire. So there is no logical progression to restart the Jedi, thus, Rey as a character is now useless. The only place to take it now is the way Rian wants to take it which is by having random kids learn the Force randomly and fight against...<rolls dice> an evil religion of Force users...or....<rolls dice again> an evil corporation of rich people who enslave noble Force users and make them do evil things. Star Wars as we knew it is dead. There is nowhere left to go except have Rey and Kylo get it over with and screw and then star over with a completely new story that has no ties to any of the previous nine episodic films (not that VIII had anything to do with VII, because it didn't). So what you are saying is that there is no way they can create new characters? That's it? They can only use the characters that were in 7 and 8... You guys wanted Snoke to be the new Emperor, but is that what he was suppose to be? I mean, Kylo is based on Jacen Solo, who took over the Republic. He's pretty much doing the same thing here by getting rid of the leadership and taking over. From this you just want another Luke, Leia and Han trilogy. Guess what? We aren't going to get that because it has passed on from them. It's the same thing with the prequels. Only Yoda and Obi Wan was there from that and they died in 4 and 6. Getting mad because you have 5 heroes left (Chewy is still there) is like getting mad because they shouldn't have killed Obi Wan in 4 because they need the hero of the 1st 3 movies. Or... hear me out... You can have both Kylo and Rey train Jedi. You don't have the movie take place right after The Last Jedi (which is really the 2nd part of a 2 parter). Have it take place 5 or so years later. Let both sides build back up. That's what they were going for with that ending. This trilogy, like the OT, was about getting rid of the old guard and bringing in the new. |
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Post by ThatGuy on Dec 16, 2017 4:08:50 GMT
Or... Just wait for it... I watched the movie and paid attention. Even in the opening crawl they put both RESISTANCE and Rebels. There it is. Someone that has an opinion that doesn't go with yours they have to be a shill. Uhh, yeah they did. But that's not the point, Sherlock. The point is the more the movie progressed, the more the Resistance was the Rebels. By the end of the movie there was no trace of Resistance. Which, of course makes no sense since rebels are opposition to an established, ruling government. The First Order is not ruling the entire galaxy. How could they be when they lost Starkiller base and are being retaliated against by the Resistance. And TLJ picks up right where TFA left off. And the time span covered in the movie wouldn't be enough time to subdue the rest of the galaxy under their control. But they waste no time calling the Resistance rebels because it looked like a clone of the Rebels in TFA anyway. But next time pay attention to the logic of the movie and the lack there of, okay keyboard genius. Then maybe you might sound like you know what you're talking about. Not Sherlock. Batman. I'm the world's greatest detective because I figured out what was going on in this movie where no one else could. Or you can go with "show or feel repugnance for or resistance to something." Doesn't have to be an established, ruling government. I mean you can rebel against your parents. They aren't an established, ruling government. Let's only take one of the definitions for rebel. That might make you look smarter. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2017 14:28:21 GMT
Or... Just wait for it... I watched the movie and paid attention. Even in the opening crawl they put both RESISTANCE and Rebels. There it is. Someone that has an opinion that doesn't go with yours they have to be a shill. I won't say you're a shill, but I disagree. He got it wrong in the crawl, too. I get that also in the crawl he alludes to The First Order starting to take the over the galaxy, but there's no way that it's even remotely possible they're administrating given the timeline. They are not yet a real government. The use of the word rebel or rebellion is just another example that RJ has no clue what he's doing. And people thought Abrams didn't get SW! Lol, Abrams looks like a walking wookiepedia compared to Johnson! |
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Post by ThatGuy on Dec 16, 2017 14:36:08 GMT
Or... Just wait for it... I watched the movie and paid attention. Even in the opening crawl they put both RESISTANCE and Rebels. There it is. Someone that has an opinion that doesn't go with yours they have to be a shill. I won't say you're a shill, but I disagree. He got it wrong in the crawl, too. I get that also in the crawl he alludes to The First Order starting to take the over the galaxy, but there's no way that it's even remotely possible they're administrating given the timeline. They are not yet a real government. The use of the word rebel or rebellion is just another example that RJ has no clue what he's doing. And people thought Abrams didn't get SW! Lol, Abrams looks like a walking wookiepedia compared to Johnson! But they don't have to be a real government for them to rebel against them. Hell, if you want to go there Resistance doesn't fit them either. A secret organization resisting authority, especially in an occupied country. They aren't resisting authority and they aren't in an occupied "country". Are they even secret? If anything they are a militia. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2017 14:48:36 GMT
So what you are saying is that there is no way they can create new characters? That's it? They can only use the characters that were in 7 and 8... No, I'm saying it sure would have been nice to develop the characters from VII. The only ones who developed - Luke, Kylo, Leia, Rey and Hux - developed in really crappy ways. Rey became a dead-end. Kylo and Hux lost everything that made them interesting. I won't trouble too much over Leia because for all I know there was meant to be more development into her Neo powers. Luke's entire story was stupid. That's a very good question. What was he supposed to be? I guess we don't deserve to know. That would have been fine if it had come at the end of IX, because by then we'd expect Kylo to have matured. No! That is not it at all. My favorite characters are already dead. Han was by far my favorite out of the big three and I applauded his death scene. I thought it was great. You can go back through my history and check. I had no problem with the way Han died. I did not want this to be a trilogy about the OT characters. I actually liked Snoke, Rey, Kylo, Hux and Maz. I thought all five were great new characters. Luke should have died in IX, but I would not have even been upset that he died in this movie if they hadn't done it in so a lackluster way. He never even got into a real duel! That's terrible writing! He never confronted Snoke? Are you kidding me? The whole point of TFA was in setting up Snoke's concern about Luke's return and that was just completely ignored. And the single worst thing about this movie is that Snoke died. They could've killed Chewie, Luke, R2D2, Leia and C3PO in this movie and combined that would not have damaged the overall story like Snoke's death did. So to be clear, the character I most wanted to see developed was not an OT character. This ain't a nostalgia thing. This was just crummy writing. Yep, as I said, let's get it over with and have them screw and have Rey die during the process, giving birth to twins, and Kylo can yell "NOOOOOOO" when she dies and he can go back to the dark side to start the new trilogy. Twilight in Space. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2017 14:50:55 GMT
I won't say you're a shill, but I disagree. He got it wrong in the crawl, too. I get that also in the crawl he alludes to The First Order starting to take the over the galaxy, but there's no way that it's even remotely possible they're administrating given the timeline. They are not yet a real government. The use of the word rebel or rebellion is just another example that RJ has no clue what he's doing. And people thought Abrams didn't get SW! Lol, Abrams looks like a walking wookiepedia compared to Johnson! But they don't have to be a real government for them to rebel against them. Hell, if you want to go there Resistance doesn't fit them either. A secret organization resisting authority, especially in an occupied country. They aren't resisting authority and they aren't in an occupied "country". Are they even secret? If anything they are a militia. Yes, yes, they do have to be a real government in order to be rebelled against. Resistance did fit them. Read the books is all I can tell you. Bloodline particularly explains what was going on in the Republic and why the term "Resistance" made sense when the Resistance was founded. |
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Post by ThatGuy on Dec 16, 2017 15:07:00 GMT
But they don't have to be a real government for them to rebel against them. Hell, if you want to go there Resistance doesn't fit them either. A secret organization resisting authority, especially in an occupied country. They aren't resisting authority and they aren't in an occupied "country". Are they even secret? If anything they are a militia. Yes, yes, they do have to be a real government in order to be rebelled against. Resistance did fit them. Read the books is all I can tell you. Bloodline particularly explains what was going on in the Republic and why the term "Resistance" made sense when the Resistance was founded. You aren't the boss of me. I can just watch the movies.  |
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Post by ThatGuy on Dec 16, 2017 16:01:40 GMT
So what you are saying is that there is no way they can create new characters? That's it? They can only use the characters that were in 7 and 8... No, I'm saying it sure would have been nice to develop the characters from VII. The only ones who developed - Luke, Kylo, Leia, Rey and Hux - developed in really crappy ways. Rey became a dead-end. Kylo and Hux lost everything that made them interesting. I won't trouble too much over Leia because for all I know there was meant to be more development into her Neo powers. Luke's entire story was stupid. That's a very good question. What was he supposed to be? I guess we don't deserve to know. That would have been fine if it had come at the end of IX, because by then we'd expect Kylo to have matured. No! That is not it at all. My favorite characters are already dead. Han was by far my favorite out of the big three and I applauded his death scene. I thought it was great. You can go back through my history and check. I had no problem with the way Han died. I did not want this to be a trilogy about the OT characters. I actually liked Snoke, Rey, Kylo, Hux and Maz. I thought all five were great new characters. Luke should have died in IX, but I would not have even been upset that he died in this movie if they hadn't done it in so a lackluster way. He never even got into a real duel! That's terrible writing! He never confronted Snoke? Are you kidding me? The whole point of TFA was in setting up Snoke's concern about Luke's return and that was just completely ignored. And the single worst thing about this movie is that Snoke died. They could've killed Chewie, Luke, R2D2, Leia and C3PO in this movie and combined that would not have damaged the overall story like Snoke's death did. So to be clear, the character I most wanted to see developed was not an OT character. This ain't a nostalgia thing. This was just crummy writing. Yep, as I said, let's get it over with and have them screw and have Rey die during the process, giving birth to twins, and Kylo can yell "NOOOOOOO" when she dies and he can go back to the dark side to start the new trilogy. Twilight in Space. But Rey, Finn and Poe are just getting started. Did you look at this as some kind of ending? He was what we got. Each Star Wars movie had a villain for that movie. In order there was: Tarkin, Boba Fett, Palpatine, Darth Maul, Dooku, Grievous. I think The Force Awakens was the only one that didn't have that because Kylo Ren is the ongoing Vader-like villain for this trilogy. Snoke was that episodic villain. What we are getting is Kylo taking over at the end of this so we get him fully in charge for the next. Maybe the responsibility of being the Supreme Leader will mature him more. He dueled Rey. Also, he's not that character anymore. I like that he died from being a wizard and not a fighter. That was his character now. He was the new Shoalin monk wizard character that resists teaching others how to fight that dies fighting a former student gone bad. Old one shinobi... Obi Wan Kenobi... Again, Snoke wasn't as important as all that. He was a thing to further other characters. He got 2 characters to a place they needed to be. The reason they wanted to get rid of Luke was because he was the known most powerful Jedi that could defeat them. "Wait, there is this girl that's powerful in the Force? Let's turn her before she is strong enough to oppose us." That's why everything shifted from Luke to Rey for them. For all they knew, Luke was dead, but this girl that we can get to, that's strong in the Force, could be a problem. Notice after they found out about her in The Force Awakens they didn't care about Luke's whereabouts. Only the Resistance still wanted to find Luke for his help. What I meant by them training Jedi was that they'll have schools of their own. I put Jedi since Kylo isn't really a Sith, but a Dark Jedi. Rey wanted Luke to start the academy again. She has the books and can study to become a a great Jedi. Have her just starting her "academy" in the next movie. Maybe just a small group of nameless students except a couple (at least 1 that makes us sad when die). Since Kylo is way more senior to her, he could have a bunch of students. Imagine Kylo watching over a bunch of nameless from a control booth like this:  |
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Post by Surly on Dec 16, 2017 16:14:01 GMT
Uhh, yeah they did. But that's not the point, Sherlock. The point is the more the movie progressed, the more the Resistance was the Rebels. By the end of the movie there was no trace of Resistance. Which, of course makes no sense since rebels are opposition to an established, ruling government. The First Order is not ruling the entire galaxy. How could they be when they lost Starkiller base and are being retaliated against by the Resistance. And TLJ picks up right where TFA left off. And the time span covered in the movie wouldn't be enough time to subdue the rest of the galaxy under their control. But they waste no time calling the Resistance rebels because it looked like a clone of the Rebels in TFA anyway. But next time pay attention to the logic of the movie and the lack there of, okay keyboard genius. Then maybe you might sound like you know what you're talking about. Not Sherlock. Batman. I'm the world's greatest detective because I figured out what was going on in this movie where no one else could. No. You're just a delusional legend in your own mind, coming up with embarrassingly contrived explanations. The parents are the established ruling government in that household. And if they don't live up to it the authorities can quickly cite those parents for negligence or dereliction. The principle still stands. You rebel against an established authority. You don't rebel against rebels! Keep coming up with those contrived explanations though, pal. They're making me laugh. |
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Post by seahawksraawk00 on Dec 16, 2017 16:29:57 GMT
Lando was the secondary Han. If they didn't have that ground battle then Han would have been flying the Falcon. Han wasn't the hero. Luke was. Han was the rogue. He's always the secondary to the hero that has to go through a type of redemption arc. Like you said, he's the one that saves the day in unconventional ways. I don't think people saw him as a hero as much as a handsome rogue and the guy they want to be like. The lovable a*hole. Except that Luke is more likeable, the dynamic of the trio is the same as Cyclops (Luke), Wolverine (Han) and Jean Grey (Leia). In recent years people have said Han was the coolest character but I dont see why. He didnt even beat Boba Fett normally. He was blind and did it by accident. Luke does heroic things like blowing up the AT-AT, but Luke fails at the end of ROTJ--at least in a heroic sense. He wants to save his father-the Emperor succeeds in making him angry, he sees the machine hand and resists, but then he gets his ass very badly handed to him by the Emperor and begs his father to help him. Although I liked how Vader picked up the Emperor, they could have dialed down the begging and maybe had Luke assist in dropping the Emperor down the shaft. All he can do is take his father's corpse out. Uh, Luke didn't fail in the end at all. Everything in that ending served it's purpose. Luke getting angry and almost killing his father and then resisting when pushed by the Emperor was the breaking point for the Emperor because Luke essentially overcame the Dark Side. And in case you missed it, he threw down his lightsaber as well, so had no intentions of striking down the Emperor either. And Luke being electrocuted while pleading for his father was the breaking point for Vader and ultimately what brought him back to the right side. It was a redemption act for Vader. The scene wouldn't work if you took any of those elements out of it |
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Post by ThatGuy on Dec 16, 2017 16:33:49 GMT
Not Sherlock. Batman. I'm the world's greatest detective because I figured out what was going on in this movie where no one else could. No. You're just a delusional legend in your own mind, coming up with embarrassingly contrived explanations. The parents are the established ruling government in that household. And if they don't live up to it the authorities can quickly cite those parents for negligence or dereliction. The principle still stands. You rebel against an established authority. You don't rebel against rebels! Keep coming up with those contrived explanations though, pal. They're making me laugh. Or you just don't want them to be explanations. You want to not like the movie. Didn't say living with your parents. So them being the "ruling government of the household" is moot. Again, you are using one definition of rebel to make your point when there are other definitions. I gave you another definition that has nothing to do with a ruling government. |
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Post by Surly on Dec 16, 2017 16:47:50 GMT
No. You're just a delusional legend in your own mind, coming up with embarrassingly contrived explanations. The parents are the established ruling government in that household. And if they don't live up to it the authorities can quickly cite those parents for negligence or dereliction. The principle still stands. You rebel against an established authority. You don't rebel against rebels! Keep coming up with those contrived explanations though, pal. They're making me laugh. Or you just don't want them to be explanations. You want to not like the movie. Didn't say living with your parents. So them being the "ruling government of the household" is moot. Again, you are using one definition of rebel to make your point when there are other definitions. I gave you another definition that has nothing to do with a ruling government. It was a lame definition on your part. I explained why. You just don't want to accept it. You don't rebel against rebels. But that's exactly the logic that the movie used. But keep trying to explain it away. It's entertaining. |
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