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Post by cupcakes on Jan 29, 2018 13:34:55 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2018 17:59:01 GMT
You unbelievably dishonest maggot. " .... Pakistanis, shouldn't I fear and hate them?..." Right, what was the bit before that? The bit you intentionally left out to make your lie more plausible? Here it is.. " Why have I spoken in defence of Ex_Muslims who now fear for there lives in this bloody country. They are Pakistanis, shouldn't I fear and hate them?" Its almost like I drew a distinction between race and religion and said I would defend Pakistani non Muslims who are being persecuted by Muslims.....Its weird, its like I'm focusing on the idea not the skin colour..... Islam Is Not A Race I'm not sure how to make this any easier for you. And for your lack of understanding of how maths works. The bit you ignore from your quote "for example, 1.0% of Asian and 0.7% of Black adults compared with 0.1% of White adults, 2012/13 to 2014/15 CSEW" 0.1 percent of white people is a higher number than 1.0 % of black people. 0.1% of whites is 54,000 1% of black sis 18,000 So per capita, blacks are victimised more. But logically 54,000 crimes have to be committed by 13% of the population, making the offending rate per capita higher for non whites. It's his thing - and many other posters on this board share the trait - to selectively delete half a phrase to re-engineer the thought behind it. Not since Rumpelstiltskin have I seen this much straw spinning.
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Post by cupcakes on Jan 29, 2018 18:03:02 GMT
tpfkar 1) No, you don't. Click the link. 2) Because the people in the videos are saying pretty much the same things as me. The difference is they are mostly "ethnic minorities." Ex Muslims living in The West who are afraid for their lives, literally scared they will be murdered because they rejected Islam. Two of the videos show ex Muslims telling us why we shouldn't use the term "Islamophobia" So are they bigots as well? Or is it only white people who cannot call out Islam? Depends on what they're calling for and how and who all they're "condemning". Islam's not any better than Christianity in the raw, and of course adherents run the gamut. And also of course some "ethnic minorities" can be anything and enlisted in most any cause. Still doesn't help your bemoaning how "African and Asian" demographics are becoming. There is a serious problem within the Muslim Asian community when it comes to the sexual abuse of young girls(mainly white).
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Post by goz on Jan 29, 2018 21:10:28 GMT
You are an Islamophobe on an (formerly high profile IMDb) and now continuing on this website to spread your words against the Islamic people in your country and Europe. I have no idea what actions you take on this behalf, how could I,? butt I DO know that you are a constant and unrelenting Islamophobe on these two websites over time. EVERY post is the same mindset. The difference between us, is that where I live, there is very little problem with the Islamic/Muslim community beyond a regrettable few youths and others who become radicalised on the internet or through a few rogue Muftis that almost always get called out by the senior members of the Muslim community. I can't believe that there is TOO great a difference in the migrants that go either to UK or Australia, so I am saying that the Australian community is slightly racist and Islamophic butt by and large accepting of a multicultural and multi faith society. Edit:According to Wiki the Muslim population percentage is 5%. Slightly less than twice butt NOT huge in real terms. You are a bigoted alarmist...at best. Goz......You said " ..In other words you actively discriminate against a small group of people in your country, attributing the worst of the fundamentalism of that faith to all Muslims in general, in the way that Hitler did with Jews." But now you're saying you can't know? So retract the above and stop blatantly making things up to suit your agenda. Now, I'll bring you attention back to the Ex Muslims who don't want you to use the term "Islamophobe" as it marginalises them. But you'll ignore that won't you? You'll ignore what they are saying about the Islamic communities in The West and how they oppress women, won't you. Much easier to rant about Christians and call Ex Muslims Nazis, isn't it, Goz? I don't think you fully understand what discrimination' actually means that you should say this. It is ridiculous on a message board to try to judge others for their actions which do not form part of this milieu. It is not necessary to actively discriminate butt in your case evident that you discriminate in your words and views. We judge each other by our words and meanings, and you cannot possibly deny your " discrimination" against Muslims in that regard. " Discrimination Discrimination is treatment or consideration of, or making a distinction in favour of or against, a person or thing based on the group, class, or category to which that person or thing is perceived to belong to rather than on individual merit." That is what you do with Muslims. 'Ex Muslims' - there you go again discriminating. Yes and there are moderate Muslims, black Muslims white Muslims etc etc etc Yes. Hitler did this with the Jews hence your rabid 'discrimination' has Nazi based traits.
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Post by thorshairspray on Jan 29, 2018 22:32:43 GMT
gozYou said I actively discriminate against Muslims. By your own admission you were making that up. If you want to say I discriminate against Islam, fine. You do EXACTLY the same thing to Christianity. So why am I a Nazi, bigot racist...blah, blah etc and you not? Is it because you are unable to differentiate between Muslims, Islam and ethnicity? I think so. What the actual fuck are you talking about? Ex Muslims are people who have left the religion of peace and now face intimidation and even violence and death because of Islams apostasy laws. I'm speaking up for them. You are speaking up for the religion that condemns them. Think about that Goz. Islam is the ONLY religion that gets this protection.
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Post by goz on Jan 29, 2018 23:09:21 GMT
goz You said I actively discriminate against Muslims. By your own admission you were making that up. If you want to say I discriminate against Islam, fine. You do EXACTLY the same thing to Christianity. So why am I a Nazi, bigot racist...blah, blah etc and you not? Is it because you are unable to differentiate between Muslims, Islam and ethnicity? I think so. What the actual fuck are you talking about? Ex Muslims are people who have left the religion of peace and now face intimidation and even violence and death because of Islams apostasy laws. I'm speaking up for them. You are speaking up for the religion that condemns them. Think about that Goz. Islam is the ONLY religion that gets this protection. You are still disingenuously failing to understand the term 'discriminate' which you do when you post. You are now obfuscating and diverting because you know that is your whole modus operandi on this board.
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Post by thorshairspray on Jan 29, 2018 23:18:12 GMT
gozDiscriminate "to make a distinction in favor of or against a person or thing on the basis of the group, class, or category to which the person or thing belongs rather than according to actual merit; show partiality:" Right. So I don't then. Because my opposition to Islam is based on the merits of Islam.
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Post by cupcakes on Jan 30, 2018 0:11:16 GMT
tpfkar You unbelievably dishonest maggot.
" .... Pakistanis, shouldn't I fear and hate them?..."
Right, what was the bit before that? The bit you intentionally left out to make your lie more plausible?
Here it is..
" Why have I spoken in defence of Ex_Muslims who now fear for there lives in this bloody country. They are Pakistanis, shouldn't I fear and hate them?"
Its almost like I drew a distinction between race and religion and said I would defend Pakistani non Muslims who are being persecuted by Muslims.....Its weird, its like I'm focusing on the idea not the skin colour.....
Islam
Is
Not
A
Race
I'm not sure how to make this any easier for you.
And for your lack of understanding of how maths works.
The bit you ignore from your quote
"for example, 1.0% of Asian and 0.7% of Black adults compared with 0.1% of White adults, 2012/13 to 2014/15 CSEW"
0.1 percent of white people is a higher number than 1.0 % of black people.
0.1% of whites is 54,000 1% of black sis 18,000
So per capita, blacks are victimised more. But logically 54,000 crimes have to be committed by 13% of the population, making the offending rate per capita higher for non whites. It's his thing - and many other posters on this board share the trait - to selectively delete half a phrase to re-engineer the thought behind it. Not since Rumpelstiltskin have I seen this much straw spinning. Harr, you speaking of "spinning". And whatever he gushes, he can't bury the wails about things becoming too "African and Asian", nor his "why don't you mock Islam" hypocrisy when he's constantly attempting to get restrictions in place, not just point out the utter immorality & ludicrousness of the sister religions. hair's breadth of differene
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Post by goz on Jan 30, 2018 0:14:13 GMT
goz Discriminate "to make a distinction in favor of or against a person or thing on the basis of the group, class, or category to which the person or thing belongs rather than according to actual merit; show partiality:" Right. So I don't then. Because my opposition to Islam is based on the merits of Islam. ...of course you do, because you discriminate on your perceived merits (or in your case lack of them) which is your opinion only. So you discriminate on the basis of your poor opinion of Islam.
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Post by thorshairspray on Jan 30, 2018 1:34:28 GMT
goz Discriminate "to make a distinction in favor of or against a person or thing on the basis of the group, class, or category to which the person or thing belongs rather than according to actual merit; show partiality:" Right. So I don't then. Because my opposition to Islam is based on the merits of Islam. ...of course you do, because you discriminate on your perceived merits (or in your case lack of them) which is your opinion only. So you discriminate on the basis of your poor opinion of Islam. Firstly. No. The fact that Islam is oppressive to women, homosexuals and non Muslims is not my subjective opinion. That the Qur'an calls for the death of apostates is not my subjective opinion. That it calls for the deaths of non Muslims and discrimination against non Muslims is not my subjective opinion. But even if that were true, how are you any different in how you approach Christianity?
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Post by goz on Jan 30, 2018 2:36:04 GMT
I ...of course you do, because you discriminate on your perceived merits (or in your case lack of them) which is your opinion only. So you discriminate on the basis of your poor opinion of Islam. Firstly. No. The fact that Islam is oppressive to women, homosexuals and non Muslims is not my subjective opinion. That the Qur'an calls for the death of apostates is not my subjective opinion. That it calls for the deaths of non Muslims and discrimination against non Muslims is not my subjective opinion. But even if that were true, how are you any different in how you approach Christianity? DUH! The fact that you ascribe those traits to all Muslims is the problem, and the fact that in your opinion all those things are universally so bad amongst ALL Muslims that you fear monger that they are going to take over UK and Europe and disseminate those ideas and spoil your current lifestyle. The fact that extreme views are held by a minority of Muslims and that the constitution of UK and European countries is not vulnerable to that...makes you look like a hysterical scare mongering ignorant Islamophobe. I, rightly (in my view) criticise the fundamentalists of the Christian religion as being bigots and hypocrites owing to the alleged message of peace and love by Jesus Christ. I call this out when they discriminate again gay people, atheists, other religions, the wealth and money grubbing of some churches, and particularly the Catholic Church ( and others) on the matter of systemic child abuse and cover up. I am particularly critical of some of the Christian churches in the USA for extremes of this ( add in racism, gun advocacy and many of the extremes that Trump is propagating such as cutting back health care immigration and helping the rich get richer all backed by a substantially Christian Republican base) These things are real and happening right now and were subscribed to by a majority (?) of American voters NOT between 2-5% of a substantially moderate Muslim population in our respective countries. ALSO, there are no Muslims on here to defend their religion or culture or lifestyle, only YOUR version of what they think which I frankly find offensive. It is an Australian trait to stick up for the underdog and helpless, so it annoys me when creeps like you go on and on and on about something that will never happen and causes harm in the mean time to law abiding citizens of your country and mine. The Christian right is already screwing things up in my country and the USA, so there is your answer.
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Jan 30, 2018 12:21:45 GMT
It's his thing - and many other posters on this board share the trait - to selectively delete half a phrase to re-engineer the thought behind it. Not since Rumpelstiltskin have I seen this much straw spinning. I think you missed the point, Winter, which was that I KNEW Thor's "Pakistanis, shouldn't I fear and hate them?" was meant to be sarcastic and ironic (which, as I took it that way, was why I saw no issues in shortening things) a point he has continuously ignored. But then, later, he blithely included Pakistani Muslims in a characteristic, sweeping warning, when suddenly they were apparently "worse than Brexit", or something. The contradiction in tone and meaning was striking and significant. While race and religion ought to be considered separate, yes, curiously Thor only obsesses about brown or black Muslims, usually in context of an implied white homeland. You would have known all this, and had seen my point, if you were reading carefully. But since you (as you told me recently on another thread) 'co-habit with God', and He at least can see everything, perhaps He could have helped to avoid such simple errors by looking over your shoulder?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2018 15:27:56 GMT
It's his thing - and many other posters on this board share the trait - to selectively delete half a phrase to re-engineer the thought behind it. Not since Rumpelstiltskin have I seen this much straw spinning. I think you missed the point, Winter, which was that I KNEW Thor's "Pakistanis, shouldn't I fear and hate them?" was meant to be sarcastic and ironic (which, as I took it that way, was why I saw no issues in shortening things) a point he has continuously ignored. But then, later, he blithely included Pakistani Muslims in a characteristic, sweeping warning, when suddenly they were apparently "worse than Brexit", or something. The contradiction in tone and meaning was striking and significant. While race and religion ought to be considered separate, yes, curiously Thor only obsesses about brown or black Muslims, usually in context of an implied white homeland. You would have known all this, and had seen my point, if you were reading carefully. But since you (as you told me recently on another thread) 'co-habit with God', and He at least can see everything, perhaps He could have helped to avoid such simple errors by looking over your shoulder? I read the full thread before I responded and understood Thor's comments perfectly well. You, clearly, have not understood him. Per usual, throughout the argument, you have changed the meaning of his phrases and then used them as a straw man against him. And yet, through all of the false attribution (which is your thing it seems) and snark, when it comes to the on-point discussion, he has owned you in my opinion.
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Post by cupcakes on Jan 30, 2018 15:42:21 GMT
tpfkar I think you missed the point, Winter, which was that I KNEW Thor's "Pakistanis, shouldn't I fear and hate them?" was meant to be sarcastic and ironic (which, as I took it that way, was why I saw no issues in shortening things) a point he has continuously ignored. But then, later, he blithely included Pakistani Muslims in a characteristic, sweeping warning, when suddenly they were apparently "worse than Brexit", or something. The contradiction in tone and meaning was striking and significant. While race and religion ought to be considered separate, yes, curiously Thor only obsesses about brown or black Muslims, usually in context of an implied white homeland. You would have known all this, and had seen my point, if you were reading carefully. But since you (as you told me recently on another thread) 'co-habit with God', and He at least can see everything, perhaps He could have helped to avoid such simple errors by looking over your shoulder? I read the full thread before I responded and understood Thor's comments perfectly well. You, clearly, have not understood him. Per usual, throughout the argument, you have changed the meaning of his phrases and then used them as a straw man against him. And yet, through all of the false attribution (which is your thing it seems) and snark, when it comes to the on-point discussion, he has owned you in my opinion. The demon of duplicity has taken the wheel completely! same old horsepuck
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Jan 30, 2018 16:07:01 GMT
I read the full thread before I responded and understood Thor's comments perfectly well. ... you have changed the meaning of his phrases and then used them as a straw man against him.
You mean his original comment was not really meant sarcastically? That he really thinks he "ought to fear and hate Pakistanis" when later he says that they are "worse than Brexit?"
Oh dear.
You have your opinion, and you are welcome to it. But few think this is about 'owning' anything lol.
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Post by thorshairspray on Jan 31, 2018 18:58:09 GMT
I Firstly. No. The fact that Islam is oppressive to women, homosexuals and non Muslims is not my subjective opinion. That the Qur'an calls for the death of apostates is not my subjective opinion. That it calls for the deaths of non Muslims and discrimination against non Muslims is not my subjective opinion. But even if that were true, how are you any different in how you approach Christianity? DUH! The fact that you ascribe those traits to all Muslims is the problem, and the fact that in your opinion all those things are universally so bad amongst ALL Muslims that you fear monger that they are going to take over UK and Europe and disseminate those ideas and spoil your current lifestyle. The fact that extreme views are held by a minority of Muslims and that the constitution of UK and European countries is not vulnerable to that...makes you look like a hysterical scare mongering ignorant Islamophobe. I, rightly (in my view) criticise the fundamentalists of the Christian religion as being bigots and hypocrites owing to the alleged message of peace and love by Jesus Christ. I call this out when they discriminate again gay people, atheists, other religions, the wealth and money grubbing of some churches, and particularly the Catholic Church ( and others) on the matter of systemic child abuse and cover up. I am particularly critical of some of the Christian churches in the USA for extremes of this ( add in racism, gun advocacy and many of the extremes that Trump is propagating such as cutting back health care immigration and helping the rich get richer all backed by a substantially Christian Republican base) These things are real and happening right now and were subscribed to by a majority (?) of American voters NOT between 2-5% of a substantially moderate Muslim population in our respective countries. ALSO, there are no Muslims on here to defend their religion or culture or lifestyle, only YOUR version of what they think which I frankly find offensive. It is an Australian trait to stick up for the underdog and helpless, so it annoys me when creeps like you go on and on and on about something that will never happen and causes harm in the mean time to law abiding citizens of your country and mine. The Christian right is already screwing things up in my country and the USA, so there is your answer. DUH!!! No I don't and you can't show me doing so. Islam is an idea, Muslims are people. The fact that you cannot separate religion from race and ideas from people is entirely your own problem. Its not my fault there are no Muslims and whether you find that offensive is neither here nor there. You attack Christianity because it messes up your nation? Well I do the same to Islam because it is messing up mine. But you don't care, because everytime I talk about any issue with Islam in Europe or the UK, you start shouting "MUH Islamophobia" and deny everything in your rush to defend the "underdog" What it boils down to is you want to defend Islam, no matter ho awful it is, no matter what Madrassah and Mosques are teaching in the UK because they are few in number. You know who else were minorities? Nazis, the KKK, The Westboro Baptists. You gonna defend them?
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Post by thorshairspray on Jan 31, 2018 19:08:14 GMT
I read the full thread before I responded and understood Thor's comments perfectly well. ... you have changed the meaning of his phrases and then used them as a straw man against him.
You mean his original comment was not really meant sarcastically? That he really thinks he "ought to fear and hate Pakistanis" when later he says that they are "worse than Brexit?"
Oh dear.
You have your opinion, and you are welcome to it. But few think this is about 'owning' anything lol. At no point did I say anything about anything being "worse than Brexit" You have quoted this several times and its a flat out lie. I sure as shit didn't say Pakistanis were worse than Brexit. Which wouldn't make sense, even to your argument since I am Pro Brexit. The only time I mentioned Brexit was in response to Goz saying Brexit would curb Muslim immigration and what I said was "You literally have no idea what you are talking about. The majority of Muslims in the UK don't come from the EU. They are from Pakistan, Somalia and Bangladesh. Brexit means nothing to this." So once more, you either didn't read what I wrote. You dreamed it or your just lying. Which is it? I'm not sure why you are making yourself out to be this stupid. The original point was that many ex Muslims are pakistanis and I have tried and am trying to help them. You claimed I was afraid of "the Other" so why am I not afraid of these ex Muslims if them being Pakistani was an issue? You're just making yourself look like a retard.
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Post by goz on Jan 31, 2018 21:02:57 GMT
IDUH! The fact that you ascribe those traits to all Muslims is the problem, and the fact that in your opinion all those things are universally so bad amongst ALL Muslims that you fear monger that they are going to take over UK and Europe and disseminate those ideas and spoil your current lifestyle. The fact that extreme views are held by a minority of Muslims and that the constitution of UK and European countries is not vulnerable to that...makes you look like a hysterical scare mongering ignorant Islamophobe. I, rightly (in my view) criticise the fundamentalists of the Christian religion as being bigots and hypocrites owing to the alleged message of peace and love by Jesus Christ. I call this out when they discriminate again gay people, atheists, other religions, the wealth and money grubbing of some churches, and particularly the Catholic Church ( and others) on the matter of systemic child abuse and cover up. I am particularly critical of some of the Christian churches in the USA for extremes of this ( add in racism, gun advocacy and many of the extremes that Trump is propagating such as cutting back health care immigration and helping the rich get richer all backed by a substantially Christian Republican base) These things are real and happening right now and were subscribed to by a majority (?) of American voters NOT between 2-5% of a substantially moderate Muslim population in our respective countries. ALSO, there are no Muslims on here to defend their religion or culture or lifestyle, only YOUR version of what they think which I frankly find offensive. It is an Australian trait to stick up for the underdog and helpless, so it annoys me when creeps like you go on and on and on about something that will never happen and causes harm in the mean time to law abiding citizens of your country and mine. The Christian right is already screwing things up in my country and the USA, so there is your answer. DUH!!! No I don't and you can't show me doing so. Islam is an idea, Muslims are people. The fact that you cannot separate religion from race and ideas from people is entirely your own problem. Its not my fault there are no Muslims and whether you find that offensive is neither here nor there. You attack Christianity because it messes up your nation? Well I do the same to Islam because it is messing up mine. But you don't care, because everytime I talk about any issue with Islam in Europe or the UK, you start shouting "MUH Islamophobia" and deny everything in your rush to defend the "underdog" What it boils down to is you want to defend Islam, no matter ho awful it is, no matter what Madrassah and Mosques are teaching in the UK because they are few in number. You know who else were minorities? Nazis, the KKK, The Westboro Baptists. You gonna defend them? You are a stupid and tiresome Islamophobe and you are clearly clutching at straws here. You constantly and unceasingly post Islamophobia whether you call it a religion or the races that are Islamic in your country. The 5% of the population of the UK has not messed up your country and your government seems to have the unruly fundy few under as much control as any other terrorist group or dissidents. I don't ever defend Islam, I defend the vast majority of Muslim people who follow Islam peacefully, who are your compatriots, friends and neighbours...or should be. Your last sentence is so pathetic I cringed for you when I read it.
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Post by cupcakes on Jan 31, 2018 21:03:42 GMT
tpfkar goz You said I actively discriminate against Muslims. By your own admission you were making that up. If you want to say I discriminate against Islam, fine. You do EXACTLY the same thing to Christianity. So why am I a Nazi, bigot racist...blah, blah etc and you not? Is it because you are unable to differentiate between Muslims, Islam and ethnicity? I think so. You want them particularly more restricted from immigration, not on their specific attitudes, but on their religion. You pretend that problems within their communities that occur all over are somehow specially unique to "them". And of course you bemoan demographics becoming more "Asian and African". Some Muslims and some states - not Islam's. Example of what you do all the time. There is a serious problem within the Muslim Asian community when it comes to the sexual abuse of young girls(mainly white).
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Post by thorshairspray on Feb 1, 2018 0:32:47 GMT
goz....there is not "whether you call it a religion or the races than are Islamic" That is the entire bloody point. It makes no difference what race the person is. Are you being racist when you complain about Christians because there are lots of black Christians in the USA? You continue to conflate race and religion which is why you "don't care" aboutt he attitudes to women and gays in the Islamic communities. Its why you refuse to address the ex Muslims asking us not to use the term "Islamophobia." I have never conflated Islam with brown or black people. Know who Abdullah Elmir is? A white Australian convert who joined ISIS. Am I okay to condemn his beliefs as he is white? Holy shit. What other group of dissidents? DO you think there are gangs of radical Jews stalking our streets with Trucks of Peace? We have 23,000 suspected and 3000 known terrorists in the UK. All Islamic. Are you telling me this is good enough? This costs us around £4,000,000,000 per year or about half what we spend on law enforcement. Don't tell me what is happening in my country Goz, you have no idea. You defend Islam every single time you use the term "Islamophobia" because it makes no distinction between criticism of Islam, or racism or anti Muslim bigotry. The Qur'an says to kill gays and Jews. IT tells Muslims to segregate. It tells us women are made to be more stupid than men. Sharia Law uses corporal punishment for adultery, which can be applied to women even if they are raped. You allow this to be ignored by screaming "Islamophobia" everytime a a person mentions Islam. Listen to this Bangladeshi (they are brown by the way) You said the ideas of Muslims didn't matter because they were a minority. Yes that is pathetic, but it was your argument not mine.
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