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Post by tickingmask on Jan 14, 2018 11:25:24 GMT
How cute! A Christian like you, telling me what I think! Typical, and amusing! How cute! Dismissing anybody who says you have a problem with Christianity on the grounds that they must be Christian themselves in order to say that. Well, that's one way of demonstrating that you are in denial and lying as much to yourself as to everybody else, I guess.
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Post by tickingmask on Jan 14, 2018 12:30:03 GMT
Here is our Goz on Christian opposition to same sex marriage "...This' religious freedom' seems to boil down to a 'right' to discriminate against these same sex couples, which is against our National Anti-Discrimination Laws in this country, so all the bigots are asking for an exemption. Is this bigotry and hatred and discrimination really what Jesus preached?" Here is our Goz on polls showing 50% of UK Muslims want homosexuality made illegal "What does it matter what 50% of a small percentage of a population thinks, if they do not have the requisite power or influence in your country to mandate changes to that effect?...." Here is our Goz reacting to me pointing out that 50% of Muslims want homosexuality made illegal "So just regular fear mongering and bigotry!" Excellent example. Goz always manages to give the strong impression that she really couldn't give a shit about anti-gay discrimination other than how it relates to Christianity.
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Post by thorshairspray on Jan 14, 2018 22:04:49 GMT
Here is our Goz on Christian opposition to same sex marriage "...This' religious freedom' seems to boil down to a 'right' to discriminate against these same sex couples, which is against our National Anti-Discrimination Laws in this country, so all the bigots are asking for an exemption. Is this bigotry and hatred and discrimination really what Jesus preached?" Here is our Goz on polls showing 50% of UK Muslims want homosexuality made illegal "What does it matter what 50% of a small percentage of a population thinks, if they do not have the requisite power or influence in your country to mandate changes to that effect?...." Here is our Goz reacting to me pointing out that 50% of Muslims want homosexuality made illegal "So just regular fear mongering and bigotry!" So in the mind of Goz, it is bigoted to point out hat Muslims don't like gays and it doesn't matter because there aren't many of them. But Christians are bigots for not liking gays and its totally fine to call them out for it. ditto comment to Mic The problem is Goz, you display blatant double standards. You call out Christianity for homophobic bigotry, yet you also say "it doesn't matter" what Muslims think because there aren't many of them. So does prejudice not matter unless it is by large groups of people? And why am I a bigot for calling out Islam and you not a bigot for calling out Christianity? Could it be because the people you call out are mainly white and the people I call out are mainly none white? I think thats it, isn't it?
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Post by thorshairspray on Jan 14, 2018 22:09:27 GMT
Here is our Goz on Christian opposition to same sex marriage "...This' religious freedom' seems to boil down to a 'right' to discriminate against these same sex couples, which is against our National Anti-Discrimination Laws in this country, so all the bigots are asking for an exemption. Is this bigotry and hatred and discrimination really what Jesus preached?" Here is our Goz on polls showing 50% of UK Muslims want homosexuality made illegal "What does it matter what 50% of a small percentage of a population thinks, if they do not have the requisite power or influence in your country to mandate changes to that effect?...." Here is our Goz reacting to me pointing out that 50% of Muslims want homosexuality made illegal "So just regular fear mongering and bigotry!" Excellent example. Goz always manages to give the strong impression that she really couldn't give a shit about anti-gay discrimination other than how it relates to Christianity. On the old board she called me an "apologist for male violence" for pointing out that domestic violence wasn't a gender issue as lesbians suffer higher rates and men are about 45% of victims. I gave evidence to support this. Note here, she says "alleged grooming gangs?" despite the fact that links to cases have been posted many times and the info isn't hidden. The groomers are 84% Muslim. Funny how she is skeptical of Muslim violence against women, but not white violence against women.
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Post by goz on Jan 15, 2018 2:00:30 GMT
I am never pro-religion. I accept others' right to their beliefs as long as it does no harm ie moderate private religious people of any denomination who don't prosthelytise. But it's obvious that your holding Muslims to a much different standard of what is 'moderate' and acceptable than you are with Christians. If we're able to tell Christians to effectively 'get with the program' and abandon ancient superstitions, why are so many of those people not able to extend that to Muslims as well? And everyone accepts the right of others to have religious belief (apart from Muslims respecting others' rights to not be a Muslim, in Islamic majority nations). That isn't really an issue; merely the fact that more always tends to be expected from Christians. You do realise that what you and Thorshairspray are doing, is exactly what Hitler did with the Jews. He blamed all the country's problems on the Jews, their heritage, their religion, their lack of integration, their growing financial power their immigration history and many other issues. I would stick up for ANY group/religion that was being targeted like that. The FACTS are that white Christians are in the positions of power in Europe ( and even more so in USA) and so the bigots fear mongers and Neo-Nazis like you, come out of the woodwork to belittle the majority of that social grouping. You are saying Muslims are bad, will take over, will reproduce, will want their legal system JUST like Hitler said about the Jews. You are scary nasty people. This is way more than me judging religious bigotry for what it is, on both sides this is attempts at social engineering and discriminating against a whole group of people who don't deserve it. They are immigrants and they are different. Get over it!
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Post by thorshairspray on Jan 15, 2018 2:30:43 GMT
But it's obvious that your holding Muslims to a much different standard of what is 'moderate' and acceptable than you are with Christians. If we're able to tell Christians to effectively 'get with the program' and abandon ancient superstitions, why are so many of those people not able to extend that to Muslims as well? And everyone accepts the right of others to have religious belief (apart from Muslims respecting others' rights to not be a Muslim, in Islamic majority nations). That isn't really an issue; merely the fact that more always tends to be expected from Christians. You do realise that what you and Thorshairspray are doing, is exactly what Hitler did with the Jews. He blamed all the country's problems on the Jews, their heritage, their religion, their lack of integration, their growing financial power their immigration history and many other issues. I would stick up for ANY group/religion that was being targeted like that. The FACTS are that white Christians are in the positions of power in Europe ( and even more so in USA) and so the bigots fear mongers and Neo-Nazis like you, come out of the woodwork to belittle the majority of that social grouping. You are saying Muslims are bad, will take over, will reproduce, will want their legal system JUST like Hitler said about the Jews. You are scary nasty people. This is way more than me judging religious bigotry for what it is, on both sides this is attempts at social engineering and discriminating against a whole group of people who don't deserve it. They are immigrants and they are different. Get over it! You are talking absolute shite. Once again you are conflating race and religion. Muslims are people. Islam is an idea. A dogshit idea that treats non Muslims like shit. You want an example? Pick any Islamic nation. I'm calling Islam out on that regressive mentality. You seem to have an issue with that, because you are completely fake. Your concern for the LGBT community and women is bullshit. You don't care, you simply want to rag on Christians, because its safe to do so. You've already said it "doesn't matter" what the attitudes of Muslim are. Learn the difference between scapgoating a minority and calling a minority on its bullshit, because you are unable to do so. I'm not giving a pass to Islam to treat everyone else like shit because the Germans did some bad shit to a minority group 70 years ago. This same stupid attitude of ignore ind a fascistic idea lead to the Holocaust. White guilt is pretty lame. And you know what, Goz? Christians are a minority group in the UK. Less than 50% of the population identifies as Christian and the number of practising Christians is below 20% So why are you ragging on a minority, you Nazi?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2018 3:08:32 GMT
But it's obvious that your holding Muslims to a much different standard of what is 'moderate' and acceptable than you are with Christians. If we're able to tell Christians to effectively 'get with the program' and abandon ancient superstitions, why are so many of those people not able to extend that to Muslims as well? And everyone accepts the right of others to have religious belief (apart from Muslims respecting others' rights to not be a Muslim, in Islamic majority nations). That isn't really an issue; merely the fact that more always tends to be expected from Christians. You do realise that what you and Thorshairspray are doing, is exactly what Hitler did with the Jews. He blamed all the country's problems on the Jews, their heritage, their religion, their lack of integration, their growing financial power their immigration history and many other issues. I would stick up for ANY group/religion that was being targeted like that. The FACTS are that white Christians are in the positions of power in Europe ( and even more so in USA) and so the bigots fear mongers and Neo-Nazis like you, come out of the woodwork to belittle the majority of that social grouping. You are saying Muslims are bad, will take over, will reproduce, will want their legal system JUST like Hitler said about the Jews. You are scary nasty people. This is way more than me judging religious bigotry for what it is, on both sides this is attempts at social engineering and discriminating against a whole group of people who don't deserve it. They are immigrants and they are different. Get over it! I'm not blaming all my country's problems on the Muslims, and it's absurd that 'Islamic beliefs are also stupid, and by the standards that you set for white Christians, Muslims are considerably worse' is now tantamount to neo-Naziism. I belittle Christians and Muslims alike, as well as so-called 'secular humanists', rather than picking on the least bad group because they have similar skin complexion as me.
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Post by goz on Jan 15, 2018 7:07:22 GMT
You do realise that what you and Thorshairspray are doing, is exactly what Hitler did with the Jews. He blamed all the country's problems on the Jews, their heritage, their religion, their lack of integration, their growing financial power their immigration history and many other issues. I would stick up for ANY group/religion that was being targeted like that. The FACTS are that white Christians are in the positions of power in Europe ( and even more so in USA) and so the bigots fear mongers and Neo-Nazis like you, come out of the woodwork to belittle the majority of that social grouping. You are saying Muslims are bad, will take over, will reproduce, will want their legal system JUST like Hitler said about the Jews. You are scary nasty people. This is way more than me judging religious bigotry for what it is, on both sides this is attempts at social engineering and discriminating against a whole group of people who don't deserve it. They are immigrants and they are different. Get over it! You are talking absolute shite. Once again you are conflating race and religion. Muslims are people. Islam is an idea. A dogshit idea that treats non Muslims like shit. You want an example? Pick any Islamic nation. I'm calling Islam out on that regressive mentality. You seem to have an issue with that, because you are completely fake. Your concern for the LGBT community and women is bullshit. You don't care, you simply want to rag on Christians, because its safe to do so. You've already said it "doesn't matter" what the attitudes of Muslim are. Learn the difference between scapgoating a minority and calling a minority on its bullshit, because you are unable to do so. I'm not giving a pass to Islam to treat everyone else like shit because the Germans did some bad shit to a minority group 70 years ago. This same stupid attitude of ignore ind a fascistic idea lead to the Holocaust. White guilt is pretty lame. And you know what, Goz? Christians are a minority group in the UK. Less than 50% of the population identifies as Christian and the number of practising Christians is below 20% So why are you ragging on a minority, you Nazi? Your 'arguments' are getting more frayed, the more I call you out on being a neo-Nazi bigot. FACT. The Anglo Saxon race is the majority in UK with one of the MOST solid legal and parliamentary system in the world. The fact that you think a few Muslims could overturn what is an over 1,000 year history is laughable. Most other democracies in the world are derived from the UK and the British Empire. You are a neo-Nazi bigot and pissing in the wind. You claim Christians are a minority group in the UK? Have a poll which asks Brits whether they espouse 'Christian ideology within a secular society' and you would get an OVERWHELMING majority. Have faith in your fellow Brits and your long held political, legal, traditional and historical institutions.
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Post by phludowin on Jan 15, 2018 14:29:36 GMT
You do realise that what you and Thorshairspray are doing, is exactly what Hitler did with the Jews. Except Jews weren't worse than Christian Germans when it came to rights of women, homosexuals, and adherents of different faiths. I would stick up for ANY group/religion that was being targeted like that. I disagree. I would only stick up for grpups and religions if they respect the right of individuals. Especially the non-discrimination of women, homosexuals and apostates is a measure I consider important. They are immigrants and they are different. Get over it! But in my opinion they shouldn't be different when it comes to human rights. What I believe will happen if the number of Muslims rises is that the Muslims will adopt more secular and individualistic values. If it happens in Saudi Arabia it can happen in the UK. So I don't stick up for Muslims who violate human rights; but I don't panic about Muslim numbers in general.
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Jan 15, 2018 15:00:58 GMT
Its also noticeable that, instead of real answers, all our Islamophobic friend can offer back now is self-justification, misrepresentation and extended mockery. So when he told you that you totally mangled those percentage figures that you posted several times, which of those three did that come under? I notice you didn't even bother to acknowledge that, let alone attempt to justify or clarify the figures you quoted. I didn't mangle anything my friend, I just linked to authoritative sources. Thor is the one who characteristically then extrapolates to suit his agenda, usually as a non-sequitur - as we saw where he jumped from the official statistics showing, unarguably, that ethnic minorities suffer most from hate crime onto suggesting that minorities were, apparently responsible for most of it lol. And, since it seems you missed it again, if you really think that 'not clarifying' is like when I said that
then that's your problem. In short, methinks you protest too much. If only you condemned Islamophobia with the same zeal as you show here.
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Post by thorshairspray on Jan 15, 2018 15:08:32 GMT
You are talking absolute shite. Once again you are conflating race and religion. Muslims are people. Islam is an idea. A dogshit idea that treats non Muslims like shit. You want an example? Pick any Islamic nation. I'm calling Islam out on that regressive mentality. You seem to have an issue with that, because you are completely fake. Your concern for the LGBT community and women is bullshit. You don't care, you simply want to rag on Christians, because its safe to do so. You've already said it "doesn't matter" what the attitudes of Muslim are. Learn the difference between scapgoating a minority and calling a minority on its bullshit, because you are unable to do so. I'm not giving a pass to Islam to treat everyone else like shit because the Germans did some bad shit to a minority group 70 years ago. This same stupid attitude of ignore ind a fascistic idea lead to the Holocaust. White guilt is pretty lame. And you know what, Goz? Christians are a minority group in the UK. Less than 50% of the population identifies as Christian and the number of practising Christians is below 20% So why are you ragging on a minority, you Nazi? Your 'arguments' are getting more frayed, the more I call you out on being a neo-Nazi bigot. FACT. The Anglo Saxon race is the majority in UK with one of the MOST solid legal and parliamentary system in the world. The fact that you think a few Muslims could overturn what is an over 1,000 year history is laughable. Most other democracies in the world are derived from the UK and the British Empire. You are a neo-Nazi bigot and pissing in the wind. You claim Christians are a minority group in the UK? Have a poll which asks Brits whether they espouse 'Christian ideology within a secular society' and you would get an OVERWHELMING majority. Have faith in your fellow Brits and your long held political, legal, traditional and historical institutions. Once again you conflate race and religion. Yes, Anglo Saxons are the dominant group in England, But, most Anglo Saxons are not Christians. Do you understand this yet? People in the UK who identify as Christian are a minority in this country, fact. And further not all British Christians are white. And if I'm a Nazi bigot for attacking Islam, you are a Nazi bigot for attacking Christianity on the same basis. Feel free to explain further why I'm a Nazi and you aren't. Should be entertaining. Although we both know you won't. And can Islam take over an established nation? Of course it can, Egypt, Libya, Syria, Anotolia. These used to be Christian. They no longer are.
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Post by thorshairspray on Jan 15, 2018 15:18:03 GMT
So when he told you that you totally mangled those percentage figures that you posted several times, which of those three did that come under? I notice you didn't even bother to acknowledge that, let alone attempt to justify or clarify the figures you quoted. I didn't mangle anything my friend, I just linked to authoritative sources. Thor is the one who characteristically then extrapolates to suit his agenda, usually as a non-sequitur - as we saw where he jumped from the official statistics showing, unarguably, that ethnic minorities suffer most from hate crime onto suggesting that minorities were, apparently responsible for most of it lol. And, since it seems you missed it again, if you really think that 'not clarifying' is like when I said that
then that's your problem. In short, methinks you protest too much. It only you condemned Islamophobia with the same zeal as you show here.
Yes, you did mangle it. First you dishonestly tried to claim the Islamic growth rate was 2.5% because you didn't read your own link. Then you continued to insist that the current population of 2,900,000 was 2% of the population. Which was also wrong. Its not our fault you can't be arsed to check your own sources or do basic maths. And again, re hate crime. Its not my fault basic maths eludes you. If the majority of racial hate crime victims are white, then the majority of offenders must be non white. That isn't a non sequitur. But you don't want to accept that there are non white people who do bad things, because it upsets your white guilt riddled, spineless bullshit narrative. Bigotry of low expectations is more dangerous to minorities than outright racism.
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Jan 15, 2018 15:26:30 GMT
If you don't recognise the trend towards a blasphemy law, then you're not paying attention. But I am; and I don't. In fact, I read UK papers for a living so I ought to have spotted this somehow.
You have your opinion about the UK blasphemy laws - even though lately repealed, as we both agree - and you are welcome to it. This 'de facto Islam law' is something which no doubt suits a perceptual bias very nicely.
But we are talking about the UK, my friend. Do you deny the present climate of Islamophobia in the UK? If there is not one, then presumably there would be no stimulus for the call for increased legal protection which you suggest is being made by Muslims specifically and, you say, is so imminent. I don't know, you seem to have the thing about Islam in particular, not I. I wonder why? QED then; and I thank you. But, whether right or wrong, this view this does not mean that Islam is going to be more protected than other faiths in the UK or, moreover, prove an unsubstantiated claim that such a change is imminent. The point really. Once again you are welcome to your opinion. But, what is suggested without lack of substantiation can be dismissed on exactly the same basis. Actually 'peaceful and law-abiding', I would say, applies to the vast majority of all religious folk. It is just Islamophobes suggest otherwise about Islam as a whole, where apparently every Muslim is apparently a potential terrorist. Is every Christian a potential abortion clinic bomber or nationalist with a gun too?
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Post by captainbryce on Jan 15, 2018 15:30:53 GMT
We can only hope that stats like this will look the same in the US, and indeed other parts of the world in the future. The sinner we get rid of religion, the sinner we can begin to heal the world. Religion has cause more devastation and suffering in the world than any other phenomenon in human history!
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Jan 15, 2018 15:33:03 GMT
I have just had a related exchange on another board, that time with someone obsessing about the 'Jewish Mafia' who, apparently force 'non-Aryan' culture onto a reluctant populace as part of a plot to subvert values etc. Two sides to the same coin, I guess. Ah well. I don't know what thread that was, but it sounds very much as if the unnamed poster you refer to was PrimeGruffer. You may already know this, but he is literally a Nazi sympathizer and a white supremacist. I am not saying this metaphorically or engaging in hyperbole--he is literally those things and has never denied it. Yes that's him!
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Jan 15, 2018 15:37:37 GMT
Where is my fear of the other regarding these groups? .... Pakistanis, shouldn't I fear and hate them?... but then LOL
And, in connection with Thor's just retiterated extrapolation of UKGOV stats, that
Here, for those who missed the original quote, is what the official statistics actually say about such things, in the conclusions on the Government website:
All of this of course before the effect of Brexit, since when anecdotal and other evidence suggest things are worse. I hope that helps. But it won't help Thor.
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Post by thorshairspray on Jan 15, 2018 16:32:31 GMT
Where is my fear of the other regarding these groups? .... Pakistanis, shouldn't I fear and hate them?... but then LOL You unbelievably dishonest maggot. " .... Pakistanis, shouldn't I fear and hate them?..." Right, what was the bit before that? The bit you intentionally left out to make your lie more plausible? Here it is.. " Why have I spoken in defence of Ex_Muslims who now fear for there lives in this bloody country. They are Pakistanis, shouldn't I fear and hate them?" Its almost like I drew a distinction between race and religion and said I would defend Pakistani non Muslims who are being persecuted by Muslims.....Its weird, its like I'm focusing on the idea not the skin colour..... Islam Is Not A Race I'm not sure how to make this any easier for you. And for your lack of understanding of how maths works. The bit you ignore from your quote "for example, 1.0% of Asian and 0.7% of Black adults compared with 0.1% of White adults, 2012/13 to 2014/15 CSEW" 0.1 percent of white people is a higher number than 1.0 % of black people. 0.1% of whites is 54,000 1% of black sis 18,000 So per capita, blacks are victimised more. But logically 54,000 crimes have to be committed by 13% of the population, making the offending rate per capita higher for non whites.
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Jan 15, 2018 16:48:21 GMT
You unbelievably dishonest maggot. An insult is still not an argument. But I have told you that before. I think you miss the point, dear Thor. Which was that first, you claim you have nothing against Pakistanis with that ironic and plaintive "shouldn't I fear them?" But next you, yes, see Pakistani Muslims at part of the Muslim issue - one 'worse that Brexit' apparently. In a hole? Stop digging then! Your extrapolation takes no measure of repeat offenders as should be obvious, this while correlation is not cause either - but I am sure you probably know that. But at least now at least you agree that the prevalence per capita agrees with me, so QED. Though the impulsion to show that ethnic minorities (by which one feels you really mean Muslims) are necessarily more guilty of hate crimes generally, when it wasn't even the subject under discussion, is something which one can only see as psychological by way of explanation. That minorities are more likely to be on the sharp end of hate crime is, still, clear.
The idea that blacks are more likely to commit hate crimes is something I have not seen in the Daily Mail (and perhaps by extension, Muslims are more criminous that others) btw, perhaps I can leave this to you?
Meanwhile, back to my naughty step you go on this thread.
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Post by thorshairspray on Jan 15, 2018 19:16:27 GMT
FilmFlaneurDoesn't change your flagrant dishonesty, nor change the fact you toss out insults all the time. Being polite about changes nothing. Nope. The point about Pakistani immigration was in response to Goz saying Brexit will stop Muslim migration. Most Muslims do come from Pakistan. I point out that I speak out in defence of Pakistani ex muslims who are in fear of their lives and ask you shouldn't I fear them because they are an "other?" This isn't contradictory. Because the issue isn't the race of the people, its the ideology of the people. Pakistanis Muslim are part of the issue, because they are Muslims, not because they are Pakistani, you cretin. Cite me once bringing up race. Do I make a distinction ever between black, Asian and white Muslims? Nope. Whilst you and goz invariably cast Muslims as brown and Christians as white. Because you cannot defend Islam. So you have to conflate race with religion so you don't feel bad criticising a "minority" religion. Sadly for you, sweetheart, the issue was whether white people commit hate crime more, because if you can remember, I said the MSM paint a picture of this being a white on non white problem. So the issue of who actually does hate crimes is pertinent to the discussion. You brought this up as a mindless defence of minorities, without considering any of the implications. Such as who actually targets the minorities, because the figures don't tell you that, do they? You simply assume that any hate crime against a Hindu must have come from a White Briton. Because you are a regressive tit, who infantalises any non white male.
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Post by tickingmask on Jan 15, 2018 22:36:59 GMT
I didn't mangle anything my friend, I just linked to authoritative sources. Riiiight... so when these "authoritative sources" quote percentages that put the population of the UK at around 120-140 million, around double the actual value, then that's ok because they are "authoritative", is that it? You can quote these "authoritative" figures as often as you like without expecting anybody to question you why the percentages you keep showing are blatantly false? Did you not even look at them first, and wonder whether they appeared a bit odd?
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